AE talk:Training - Revision history

Gumby at 03:37, 17 November 2008

2008-11-17T03:37:23Z

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	:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items. You can refuse the task and work on multiplayer instead, but then I may not be of much help.		:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items. You can refuse the task and work on multiplayer instead, but then I may not be of much help.
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)
			::Misunderstanding suck, huh? Anyways, savepoints+cutscenes: Roger Roger.
			::Also, about "cyberspace". Makes sense, as Karen+bots technically enter by walking through the walls :) Maybe Shinny can make an appearence then...or something. Or not. Doesn't matter right now though. [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 04:37, 17 November 2008 (CET)

Geyser: ranking FIX rating

2008-11-17T01:31:36Z

ranking FIX rating

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	[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)		[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:I admit I'm taking it out on you a little bit (and maybe more than a little bit), but I'm understandably tired of how everybody is "systematically mucking about". Note that you didn't give me much to give ''you'' a shitstorm about up there, as I didn't even understand what your "main thought" was. I was reacting primarily to Iritscen's blurb, trying to respond in detail to every point: when I sensed scope creep, I said it, and when I could extract something constructive, I did so.		:I admit I'm taking it out on you a little bit (and maybe more than a little bit), but I'm understandably tired of how everybody is "systematically mucking about". Note that you didn't give me much to give ''you'' a shitstorm about up there, as I didn't even understand what your "main thought" was. I was reacting primarily to Iritscen's blurb, trying to respond in detail to every point: when I sensed scope creep, I said it, and when I could extract something constructive, I did so.
	:There is nothing wrong with unlocking one or several extra challenges based on the "~~ranking~~" of the training course; either at the end of the course, when the ~~ranking~~ is complete, or at intermediate stages, based on the ~~ranking~~-so-far. So I did ''not'' reject the ~~ranking~~-based "idea" for the training course (because the ~~ranking~~ is already implemented). I ''did'' reject the generalization proposed by Iritscen, because on the scale of the whole game the answer to Who The Frack Will Script It And When is obvious: no one any time soon.		:There is nothing wrong with unlocking one or several extra challenges based on the "rating" of the training course; either at the end of the course, when the rating is complete, or at intermediate stages, based on the rating-so-far. So I did ''not'' reject the rating-based "idea" for the training course (because the rating is already implemented). I ''did'' reject the generalization proposed by Iritscen, because on the scale of the whole game the answer to Who The Frack Will Script It And When is obvious: no one any time soon.
	:I made an additional remark in response to Iritscen's points about "veterans" and excessive difficulty: Griffin's death (or another similar variable) can act as a global switch, changing Easy/Normal/Hard to Challenging/Insane/Impossible: the training course can be affected dramatically by that secret variable, regardless of the ~~ranking~~-based non-linearity. That not shit-stormy in my book, that's constructive. Feel free to develop on that idea whenever "good inspiration" hits you.		:I made an additional remark in response to Iritscen's points about "veterans" and excessive difficulty: Griffin's death (or another similar variable) can act as a global switch, changing Easy/Normal/Hard to Challenging/Insane/Impossible: the training course can be affected dramatically by that secret variable, regardless of the rating-based non-linearity. That not shit-stormy in my book, that's constructive. Feel free to develop on that idea whenever "good inspiration" hits you.
	:If you think the training level is not actually worth the attention, then I can agree with you in part: pimping up the training course is not the best way to improve Oni, especially not in the eyes of the "general public". It is, however, a convenient dump for otherwise embarrassing "cameos", and an opportunity for ''you'' to deliver in terms of scripting. There are clear guidelines, reasonable creative freedom, guaranteed support from myself. Like for cough extra savepoints.		:If you think the training level is not actually worth the attention, then I can agree with you in part: pimping up the training course is not the best way to improve Oni, especially not in the eyes of the "general public". It is, however, a convenient dump for otherwise embarrassing "cameos", and an opportunity for ''you'' to deliver in terms of scripting. There are clear guidelines, reasonable creative freedom, guaranteed support from myself. Like for cough extra savepoints.
	:As for Karen losing to the robots more often than not, we can fix it, but we don't have to, as long as we pretend she isn't really dead. I still don't think shutting down the robots "manually" makes sense, because there was no malfunction. You can totally add TCTF troops in this spot or elsewhere (ahead of Konoko's progression, for example, as I suggested earlier), but, as I said up there, if you add too many people, you may have to develop the "backstory" of the training a bit: either a "realistic" tie-in (elevators, cyberspace) or deliberately random wackiness, but there will have to be ''some'' tender loving care, or the modified course may look awkward, neither serious or un-serious enough. I can't tell you what to watch out for more specifically: you have to actually start working on it and make some choices for yourself and then we'll see.		:As for Karen losing to the robots more often than not, we can fix it, but we don't have to, as long as we pretend she isn't really dead. I still don't think shutting down the robots "manually" makes sense, because there was no malfunction. You can totally add TCTF troops in this spot or elsewhere (ahead of Konoko's progression, for example, as I suggested earlier), but, as I said up there, if you add too many people, you may have to develop the "backstory" of the training a bit: either a "realistic" tie-in (elevators, cyberspace) or deliberately random wackiness, but there will have to be ''some'' tender loving care, or the modified course may look awkward, neither serious or un-serious enough. I can't tell you what to watch out for more specifically: you have to actually start working on it and make some choices for yourself and then we'll see.
	:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items. You can refuse the task and work on multiplayer instead, but then I may not be of much help.		:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items. You can refuse the task and work on multiplayer instead, but then I may not be of much help.
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)

Geyser: typos and such

2008-11-17T01:15:26Z

typos and such

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	[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)		[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:I admit I'm taking it out on you a little bit (and maybe more than a little bit), but I'm understandably tired of how everybody is "systematically mucking about". Note that you didn't give me much to give ''you'' a shitstorm about up there, as I didn't even understand what your "main thought" was. I was reacting primarily to Iritscen's blurb, trying to respond in detail to every point: when I sensed scope creep, I said it, and when I could extract something constructive, I did so.		:I admit I'm taking it out on you a little bit (and maybe more than a little bit), but I'm understandably tired of how everybody is "systematically mucking about". Note that you didn't give me much to give ''you'' a shitstorm about up there, as I didn't even understand what your "main thought" was. I was reacting primarily to Iritscen's blurb, trying to respond in detail to every point: when I sensed scope creep, I said it, and when I could extract something constructive, I did so.
	:There is nothing wrong with unlocking one or several extra challenges based on the "ranking" of the training course; either at the end of the course, when the ranking is complete, or at intermediate stages, based on the ranking-so-far. So I did ''not'' reject the ranking-based "idea" for the training course (because the ranking is already implemented). I ''did'' reject the generalization proposed by Iritscen, because on the scale of the ~~while~~ game the answer to Who The Frack Will Script It And When is obvious: no one any time soon.		:There is nothing wrong with unlocking one or several extra challenges based on the "ranking" of the training course; either at the end of the course, when the ranking is complete, or at intermediate stages, based on the ranking-so-far. So I did ''not'' reject the ranking-based "idea" for the training course (because the ranking is already implemented). I ''did'' reject the generalization proposed by Iritscen, because on the scale of the whole game the answer to Who The Frack Will Script It And When is obvious: no one any time soon.
	:I made an additional remark in response to Iritscen's points about "veterans" and excessive difficulty: Griffin's death (or another similar variable) can act as a global switch, changing Easy/Normal/Hard to Challenging/Insane/Impossible: the training course can be affected dramatically by that secret variable, regardless of the ranking-based non-linearity. That not shit-stormy in my book, that's constructive. Feel free to develop on that idea whenever "good inspiration" hits you.		:I made an additional remark in response to Iritscen's points about "veterans" and excessive difficulty: Griffin's death (or another similar variable) can act as a global switch, changing Easy/Normal/Hard to Challenging/Insane/Impossible: the training course can be affected dramatically by that secret variable, regardless of the ranking-based non-linearity. That not shit-stormy in my book, that's constructive. Feel free to develop on that idea whenever "good inspiration" hits you.
	:If you think the training level is not actually worth the attention, then I can agree with you in part: pimping up the training course is not the best way to improve Oni, especially not in the eyes of the "general public". It is, however, a convenient dump for otherwise embarrassing "cameos", and an opportunity for ''you'' to deliver in terms of scripting. There are clear guidelines, reasonable freedom ~~of movement and~~ guaranteed support from myself. Like for cough extra savepoints.		:If you think the training level is not actually worth the attention, then I can agree with you in part: pimping up the training course is not the best way to improve Oni, especially not in the eyes of the "general public". It is, however, a convenient dump for otherwise embarrassing "cameos", and an opportunity for ''you'' to deliver in terms of scripting. There are clear guidelines, reasonable creative freedom, guaranteed support from myself. Like for cough extra savepoints.
	:As for Karen losing to the robots more often than not, we can fix it, but we don't have to, as long as we pretend she isn't really dead. I still don't think shutting down the robots "manually" makes sense, because there was no malfunction. You can totally add TCTF troops in this spot or elsewhere (ahead of Konoko's progression, for example, as I suggested earlier), but, as I said up there, if you add too many people, you may have to develop the "backstory" of the training a bit: either a "realistic" tie-in (elevators, cyberspace) or deliberately random wackiness, but there will have to be ''some'' tender loving care, or the modified course may look awkward, neither serious or un-serious enough. I can't tell you what to watch out for more specifically: you have to actually start working on it and make some choices for yourself and then we'll see.		:As for Karen losing to the robots more often than not, we can fix it, but we don't have to, as long as we pretend she isn't really dead. I still don't think shutting down the robots "manually" makes sense, because there was no malfunction. You can totally add TCTF troops in this spot or elsewhere (ahead of Konoko's progression, for example, as I suggested earlier), but, as I said up there, if you add too many people, you may have to develop the "backstory" of the training a bit: either a "realistic" tie-in (elevators, cyberspace) or deliberately random wackiness, but there will have to be ''some'' tender loving care, or the modified course may look awkward, neither serious or un-serious enough. I can't tell you what to watch out for more specifically: you have to actually start working on it and make some choices for yourself and then we'll see.
	:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items.		:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items. You can refuse the task and work on multiplayer instead, but then I may not be of much help.
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)

Geyser: i'm sorry, but...

2008-11-17T01:07:31Z

i'm sorry, but...

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:07, 17 November 2008
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	Goddamnit, if you are going to give me a shitstorm seven times larger than my idea (which you originally suggested, vaguely!) I won't bother anymore.		Goddamnit, if you are going to give me a shitstorm seven times larger than my idea (which you originally suggested, vaguely!) I won't bother anymore.
	You tell us to work on ~~somehting~~ in the AE:todo list.		You tell us to work on something in the AE:todo list.

	Me: Oh look! AE:Training. Hey, I have an idea! Lets add Motoko in! ....hey look! Geyser already had this idea! Lets refine it a little bit!		Me: Oh look! AE:Training. Hey, I have an idea! Lets add Motoko in! ....hey look! Geyser already had this idea! Lets refine it a little bit!
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	If you aren't going to tell us what to focus on, don't be surprised if you get a lot of ideas in places you don't want them. In fact, don't be surprised at any of the ideas. It takes a lot of bad ones to find the good ones that should be put in. And when YOU suggest something (Motoko in the training in this case) don't yell at us when we try to expand upon the idea. We are doing the best we can with what we have.		If you aren't going to tell us what to focus on, don't be surprised if you get a lot of ideas in places you don't want them. In fact, don't be surprised at any of the ideas. It takes a lot of bad ones to find the good ones that should be put in. And when YOU suggest something (Motoko in the training in this case) don't yell at us when we try to expand upon the idea. We are doing the best we can with what we have.
	[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)		[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:I admit I'm taking it out on you a little bit (and maybe more than a little bit), but I'm understandably tired of how everybody is "systematically mucking about". Note that you didn't give me much to give ''you'' a shitstorm about up there, as I didn't even understand what your "main thought" was. I was reacting primarily to Iritscen's blurb, trying to respond in detail to every point: when I sensed scope creep, I said it, and when I could extract something constructive, I did so.
			:There is nothing wrong with unlocking one or several extra challenges based on the "ranking" of the training course; either at the end of the course, when the ranking is complete, or at intermediate stages, based on the ranking-so-far. So I did ''not'' reject the ranking-based "idea" for the training course (because the ranking is already implemented). I ''did'' reject the generalization proposed by Iritscen, because on the scale of the while game the answer to Who The Frack Will Script It And When is obvious: no one any time soon.
			:I made an additional remark in response to Iritscen's points about "veterans" and excessive difficulty: Griffin's death (or another similar variable) can act as a global switch, changing Easy/Normal/Hard to Challenging/Insane/Impossible: the training course can be affected dramatically by that secret variable, regardless of the ranking-based non-linearity. That not shit-stormy in my book, that's constructive. Feel free to develop on that idea whenever "good inspiration" hits you.
			:If you think the training level is not actually worth the attention, then I can agree with you in part: pimping up the training course is not the best way to improve Oni, especially not in the eyes of the "general public". It is, however, a convenient dump for otherwise embarrassing "cameos", and an opportunity for ''you'' to deliver in terms of scripting. There are clear guidelines, reasonable freedom of movement and guaranteed support from myself. Like for cough extra savepoints.
			:As for Karen losing to the robots more often than not, we can fix it, but we don't have to, as long as we pretend she isn't really dead. I still don't think shutting down the robots "manually" makes sense, because there was no malfunction. You can totally add TCTF troops in this spot or elsewhere (ahead of Konoko's progression, for example, as I suggested earlier), but, as I said up there, if you add too many people, you may have to develop the "backstory" of the training a bit: either a "realistic" tie-in (elevators, cyberspace) or deliberately random wackiness, but there will have to be ''some'' tender loving care, or the modified course may look awkward, neither serious or un-serious enough. I can't tell you what to watch out for more specifically: you have to actually start working on it and make some choices for yourself and then we'll see.
			:In any case, I can't see why you should be put off by my first post up there. It ''is'' edgy, but I have my reasons and you know them. You want me to tell you what to do? OK, here you go: Gumby, you must implement cutscene skipping and extra savepoints. If you need more specific directions for either task, just ask. And you're relieved of having ideas until you're done with these two items.
			::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 02:07, 17 November 2008 (CET)

Gumby at 22:34, 16 November 2008

2008-11-16T22:34:10Z

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	:Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			----
			Geez, it was all in fun. I don't regard the training level to be an actual part of the game, myself. And Karen dying is Easter Egg no more. She dies more for me than not. Adding rooms was not in my original plan, either. And I can script, too, or I wouldn't suggest these things. The only reason I haven't scripted new level logic is lack of good inspiration. And also, might I note something that I hadn't read before now:

			"For example, both Motoko Kusanagi from GITS and Gally/Alita from GUNNM could appear as "sparring partners" late in the training course, probably not in the "default" course but hidden or unlocked in some way."

			Goddamnit, if you are going to give me a shitstorm seven times larger than my idea (which you originally suggested, vaguely!) I won't bother anymore.
			You tell us to work on somehting in the AE:todo list.

			Me: Oh look! AE:Training. Hey, I have an idea! Lets add Motoko in! ....hey look! Geyser already had this idea! Lets refine it a little bit!

			And what do I get? ''Le-shitstorm''

			If you aren't going to tell us what to focus on, don't be surprised if you get a lot of ideas in places you don't want them. In fact, don't be surprised at any of the ideas. It takes a lot of bad ones to find the good ones that should be put in. And when YOU suggest something (Motoko in the training in this case) don't yell at us when we try to expand upon the idea. We are doing the best we can with what we have.
			[[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 23:34, 16 November 2008 (CET)

Geyser: and don't forget to sign, dammit

2008-11-16T22:00:03Z

and don't forget to *sign*, dammit

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	P.S.: Imagine if we actually had scripted scoring for other levels... to provide optional elite challenges there too.... --[[User:Iritscen\|iritscen]] 20:57, 16 November 2008 (CET)		P.S.: Imagine if we actually had scripted scoring for other levels... to provide optional elite challenges there too.... --[[User:Iritscen\|iritscen]] 20:57, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :)		::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :) --'''Gumby'''
	----		----
	:There's no point in "imagining" new features for the training unless you're committed to Actually Getting Them Done. Don't throw more and more ideas my way, or each other's way, or whatever you think you're doing ^_^ --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:There's no point in "imagining" new features for the training unless you're committed to Actually Getting Them Done. Don't throw more and more ideas my way, or each other's way, or whatever you think you're doing ^_^ --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)

Geyser: too much on my mind, sorry

2008-11-16T21:58:35Z

too much on my mind, sorry

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	::Another problem with the "rushing in" is the improbable, sealed-off layout of the training rooms, the magical appearance of items in the shooting range, and of course Karen and the droids also appear out of nowhere. Cyberspace is present in Oni, so it helps to think of the whole thing as a virtual or semi-virtual environment. The more people are shown using it as an actual facility, the less abstract the whole thing is, and the more thought/work should be put into the overall presentation: are we looking at cyber-avatars, or cyber-training with physical feedback from actual droids in actual rooms, or real people who use concealed doors, or (least likely of all) teleporters? There are reasonable "physical" solutions, like concealed elevators being lowered from the ceiling, but then again the whole level is very un-serious, and I think it'd be scope-creepy to mod it in radical ways. It just doesn't deserve it, and it can work even if it's wacky. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		::Another problem with the "rushing in" is the improbable, sealed-off layout of the training rooms, the magical appearance of items in the shooting range, and of course Karen and the droids also appear out of nowhere. Cyberspace is present in Oni, so it helps to think of the whole thing as a virtual or semi-virtual environment. The more people are shown using it as an actual facility, the less abstract the whole thing is, and the more thought/work should be put into the overall presentation: are we looking at cyber-avatars, or cyber-training with physical feedback from actual droids in actual rooms, or real people who use concealed doors, or (least likely of all) teleporters? There are reasonable "physical" solutions, like concealed elevators being lowered from the ceiling, but then again the whole level is very un-serious, and I think it'd be scope-creepy to mod it in radical ways. It just doesn't deserve it, and it can work even if it's wacky. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder" Sorry, Gumby, but I don't get what that means: try not to "think aloud"... Does "actual level" mean the warehouse, or the training course? Is >90% the "rating" obtained in training, or the progress through the training course, or the progress through a given fight? Please explain. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder" Sorry, Gumby, but I don't get what that means: try not to "think aloud"... Does "actual level" mean the warehouse, or the training course? Is >90% the "rating" obtained in training, or the progress through the training course, or the progress through a given fight? Please explain. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"unless you think it's too much difficulty for the opening level." Veterans, as you put it, won't mind fighting overpowered cameos. I already said what I thought of new rooms and complex management of fighting stats: realism and simplicity are our best friends - if you don't think in terms of , the best project leader in the. Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"unless you think it's too much difficulty for the opening level." Veterans, as you put it, won't mind fighting overpowered cameos. I already said what I thought of new rooms and complex management of fighting stats: realism and simplicity are our best friends - if you don't think in terms of time frames and actual output, the best project leader in the world won't help you. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:58, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)

Geyser: sigh

2008-11-16T21:48:37Z

sigh

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:48, 16 November 2008
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	:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :)		::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :)
			----
			:There's no point in "imagining" new features for the training unless you're committed to Actually Getting Them Done. Don't throw more and more ideas my way, or each other's way, or whatever you think you're doing ^_^ --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::Adding rooms, for example: what the frack? don't you even ''mention'' it until OniSplit is able to reimport AKEVEnvWarehouse complete with pathfinding autogeneration. Is that clear? Dismissed. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:Scripted scoring is a well-forgotten old idea of "mine" that I consider very scope-creepy at the moment. It needs expert scripting throughout, that no one can provide. End of story. Start by adding savepoints, maggots ^_^ --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::More generally, I'd welcome achievements rather than ideas at the moment. We need to understand the level at which everyone can ''actually'' contribute. Specifically, who of us can script, apart from Loser and gmsly and myself? Who do we have who can script an extended/new training course, or "seamless" additions to the Chapters? I'd prefer that scripter to have a fair degree of autonomy, but I won't mind questions, as long as I don't get the impression that I'm as good as alone anyway. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots" Shutting down robots by kicking their ass or shooting them? How primitive... Shinatama can activate and deactivate them at will, she just failed to do so in time. There was no malfunction, and for the sake of the argument we can say Karen was knocked out (this is reasonably consistent with Shinatama's tirade, and the whole thing not more than an Easter egg, so...). --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::Another problem with the "rushing in" is the improbable, sealed-off layout of the training rooms, the magical appearance of items in the shooting range, and of course Karen and the droids also appear out of nowhere. Cyberspace is present in Oni, so it helps to think of the whole thing as a virtual or semi-virtual environment. The more people are shown using it as an actual facility, the less abstract the whole thing is, and the more thought/work should be put into the overall presentation: are we looking at cyber-avatars, or cyber-training with physical feedback from actual droids in actual rooms, or real people who use concealed doors, or (least likely of all) teleporters? There are reasonable "physical" solutions, like concealed elevators being lowered from the ceiling, but then again the whole level is very un-serious, and I think it'd be scope-creepy to mod it in radical ways. It just doesn't deserve it, and it can work even if it's wacky. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder" Sorry, Gumby, but I don't get what that means: try not to "think aloud"... Does "actual level" mean the warehouse, or the training course? Is >90% the "rating" obtained in training, or the progress through the training course, or the progress through a given fight? Please explain. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"unless you think it's too much difficulty for the opening level." Veterans, as you put it, won't mind fighting overpowered cameos. I already said what I thought of new rooms and complex management of fighting stats: realism and simplicity are our best friends - if you don't think in terms of , the best project leader in the. Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)

Gumby at 20:19, 16 November 2008

2008-11-16T20:19:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:19, 16 November 2008
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	P.S.: Imagine if we actually had scripted scoring for other levels... to provide optional elite challenges there too.... --[[User:Iritscen\|iritscen]] 20:57, 16 November 2008 (CET)		P.S.: Imagine if we actually had scripted scoring for other levels... to provide optional elite challenges there too.... --[[User:Iritscen\|iritscen]] 20:57, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :)

Gumby at 20:18, 16 November 2008

2008-11-16T20:18:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:18, 16 November 2008
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	P.S.: Imagine if we actually had scripted scoring for other levels... to provide optional elite challenges there too.... --[[User:Iritscen\|iritscen]] 20:57, 16 November 2008 (CET)		P.S.: Imagine if we actually had scripted scoring for other levels... to provide optional elite challenges there too.... --[[User:Iritscen\|iritscen]] 20:57, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:58, 16 November 2008
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	::Another problem with the "rushing in" is the improbable, sealed-off layout of the training rooms, the magical appearance of items in the shooting range, and of course Karen and the droids also appear out of nowhere. Cyberspace is present in Oni, so it helps to think of the whole thing as a virtual or semi-virtual environment. The more people are shown using it as an actual facility, the less abstract the whole thing is, and the more thought/work should be put into the overall presentation: are we looking at cyber-avatars, or cyber-training with physical feedback from actual droids in actual rooms, or real people who use concealed doors, or (least likely of all) teleporters? There are reasonable "physical" solutions, like concealed elevators being lowered from the ceiling, but then again the whole level is very un-serious, and I think it'd be scope-creepy to mod it in radical ways. It just doesn't deserve it, and it can work even if it's wacky. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		::Another problem with the "rushing in" is the improbable, sealed-off layout of the training rooms, the magical appearance of items in the shooting range, and of course Karen and the droids also appear out of nowhere. Cyberspace is present in Oni, so it helps to think of the whole thing as a virtual or semi-virtual environment. The more people are shown using it as an actual facility, the less abstract the whole thing is, and the more thought/work should be put into the overall presentation: are we looking at cyber-avatars, or cyber-training with physical feedback from actual droids in actual rooms, or real people who use concealed doors, or (least likely of all) teleporters? There are reasonable "physical" solutions, like concealed elevators being lowered from the ceiling, but then again the whole level is very un-serious, and I think it'd be scope-creepy to mod it in radical ways. It just doesn't deserve it, and it can work even if it's wacky. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder" Sorry, Gumby, but I don't get what that means: try not to "think aloud"... Does "actual level" mean the warehouse, or the training course? Is >90% the "rating" obtained in training, or the progress through the training course, or the progress through a given fight? Please explain. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder" Sorry, Gumby, but I don't get what that means: try not to "think aloud"... Does "actual level" mean the warehouse, or the training course? Is >90% the "rating" obtained in training, or the progress through the training course, or the progress through a given fight? Please explain. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"unless you think it's too much difficulty for the opening level." Veterans, as you put it, won't mind fighting overpowered cameos. I already said what I thought of new rooms and complex management of fighting stats: realism and simplicity are our best friends - if you don't think in terms of , the best project leader in the. Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"unless you think it's too much difficulty for the opening level." Veterans, as you put it, won't mind fighting overpowered cameos. I already said what I thought of new rooms and complex management of fighting stats: realism and simplicity are our best friends - if you don't think in terms of time frames and actual output, the best project leader in the world won't help you. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:58, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:48, 16 November 2008
Line 4:		Line 4:
	:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)		:My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder :) [[User:Gumby\|Gumby]] 21:18, 16 November 2008 (CET)
	::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :)		::Heh, just thought of something else. If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots :)
			----
			:There's no point in "imagining" new features for the training unless you're committed to Actually Getting Them Done. Don't throw more and more ideas my way, or each other's way, or whatever you think you're doing ^_^ --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::Adding rooms, for example: what the frack? don't you even ''mention'' it until OniSplit is able to reimport AKEVEnvWarehouse complete with pathfinding autogeneration. Is that clear? Dismissed. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:Scripted scoring is a well-forgotten old idea of "mine" that I consider very scope-creepy at the moment. It needs expert scripting throughout, that no one can provide. End of story. Start by adding savepoints, maggots ^_^ --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::More generally, I'd welcome achievements rather than ideas at the moment. We need to understand the level at which everyone can ''actually'' contribute. Specifically, who of us can script, apart from Loser and gmsly and myself? Who do we have who can script an extended/new training course, or "seamless" additions to the Chapters? I'd prefer that scripter to have a fair degree of autonomy, but I won't mind questions, as long as I don't get the impression that I'm as good as alone anyway. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"If Karen "dies", some TCTF officers could come rushing through to shut down the robots" Shutting down robots by kicking their ass or shooting them? How primitive... Shinatama can activate and deactivate them at will, she just failed to do so in time. There was no malfunction, and for the sake of the argument we can say Karen was knocked out (this is reasonably consistent with Shinatama's tirade, and the whole thing not more than an Easter egg, so...). --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			::Another problem with the "rushing in" is the improbable, sealed-off layout of the training rooms, the magical appearance of items in the shooting range, and of course Karen and the droids also appear out of nowhere. Cyberspace is present in Oni, so it helps to think of the whole thing as a virtual or semi-virtual environment. The more people are shown using it as an actual facility, the less abstract the whole thing is, and the more thought/work should be put into the overall presentation: are we looking at cyber-avatars, or cyber-training with physical feedback from actual droids in actual rooms, or real people who use concealed doors, or (least likely of all) teleporters? There are reasonable "physical" solutions, like concealed elevators being lowered from the ceiling, but then again the whole level is very un-serious, and I think it'd be scope-creepy to mod it in radical ways. It just doesn't deserve it, and it can work even if it's wacky. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"My main thought was that having someone to fight against in the actual level would be nice. Maybe at >90 percent the fight gets a bit harder" Sorry, Gumby, but I don't get what that means: try not to "think aloud"... Does "actual level" mean the warehouse, or the training course? Is >90% the "rating" obtained in training, or the progress through the training course, or the progress through a given fight? Please explain. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"unless you think it's too much difficulty for the opening level." Veterans, as you put it, won't mind fighting overpowered cameos. I already said what I thought of new rooms and complex management of fighting stats: realism and simplicity are our best friends - if you don't think in terms of , the best project leader in the. Here is a simple yet effective way to handle a "Demoniac" difficulty upgrade: unlock harder challenges throughout Oni if the "killed Griffin" flag is set; there can be 3 flavors of harder challenges, one for every difficulty level, so basically you have 6 difficulty levels, which is more than enough to accomodate the skill of every gamer. Of course, the lack of a stats system makes the thing easier to script, but someone will still have to sit down and script the supposed challenging encounters. And if I'm the only one who can do the job, none of this will ever happen. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)
			:"Voice acting isn't feasible, is it?" Depends on what approach you take. Shinatame has a lot of quotes, from which you can piece a lot of new lines together - if you're creative. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:48, 16 November 2008 (CET)