OBD talk:OTLF - Revision history

Iritscen: marking dead link

2022-05-09T12:04:46Z

marking dead link

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:04, 9 May 2022
Line 36:		Line 36:
	:[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)		:[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)
	:See the red bordered area in the pic below? It means that every bit of the 12 bits is used.		:See the red bordered area in the pic below? It means that every bit of the 12 bits is used.
	http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/12bit2_FF106A14_12381.gif		<nowiki>http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/12bit2_FF106A14_12381.gif</nowiki> (dead link)
	:I don't get it. How do you read these 12 bit part?		:I don't get it. How do you read these 12 bit part?
	::;ssg		::;ssg

Iritscen: +cat

2022-05-04T17:08:47Z

+cat

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:08, 4 May 2022
Line 55:		Line 55:
	:Well, if I have some time, I'll try to go on with updating the format + content (if necessary).		:Well, if I have some time, I'll try to go on with updating the format + content (if necessary).
	[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)		[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)

			{{OBD}}

Ssg: Thank you :-)

2007-05-03T10:18:11Z

Thank you :-)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:18, 3 May 2007
Line 33:		Line 33:
	:If you unswap the bytes properly you get 0x146A10FF, so the lower 3 nibbles are 0x0FF = 255 < 426.		:If you unswap the bytes properly you get 0x146A10FF, so the lower 3 nibbles are 0x0FF = 255 < 426.
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]]		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]]
			:Ooooooohhh... thank you. Now I got it. (Wow, it tooks a long time...)
			:[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)
	:See the red bordered area in the pic below? It means that every bit of the 12 bits is used.		:See the red bordered area in the pic below? It means that every bit of the 12 bits is used.
	http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/12bit2_FF106A14_12381.gif		http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/12bit2_FF106A14_12381.gif
Line 39:		Line 41:
	:level3 only has 18691 leaves. Please tell us what you're looking at.		:level3 only has 18691 leaves. Please tell us what you're looking at.
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 18:27, 2 May 2007 (CEST)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 18:27, 2 May 2007 (CEST)
			:The first column isn't used for the leaves (as you can see) and Excel starts with 1 and not with 0, so 18693 - 2 = 18691 ==> perfect.
			:[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)
	@geyser:		@geyser:
	:		:
Line 49:		Line 53:
	:Just update everything in an "automatic" way, and then we'll compare with previous versions and merge stuff in.		:Just update everything in an "automatic" way, and then we'll compare with previous versions and merge stuff in.
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 18:27, 2 May 2007 (CEST)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 18:27, 2 May 2007 (CEST)
			:Well, if I have some time, I'll try to go on with updating the format + content (if necessary).
			[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 12:18, 3 May 2007 (CEST)

Geyser: replied to both

2007-05-02T16:27:27Z

replied to both

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:27, 2 May 2007
Line 29:		Line 29:
	:		:
	@Neo:		@Neo:
	:		:OTLF Package 12381 in level 3 is: FF106A14. How to read the first three nibbles (FF1), so that the sum is smaller than 426?
	OTLF Package 12381 in level 3 is: FF106A14. How to read the first three nibbles (FF1), so that the sum is smaller than 426?		::;ssg
	:		:If you unswap the bytes properly you get 0x146A10FF, so the lower 3 nibbles are 0x0FF = 255 < 426.
	See the red bordered area in the pic below? It means that every bit of the 12 bits is used.		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]]
	:		:See the red bordered area in the pic below? It means that every bit of the 12 bits is used.
	http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/12bit2_FF106A14_12381.gif		http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/12bit2_FF106A14_12381.gif
	:		:I don't get it. How do you read these 12 bit part?
	I don't get it. How do you read these 12 bit part?		::;ssg
	:		:level3 only has 18691 leaves. Please tell us what you're looking at.
			::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 18:27, 2 May 2007 (CEST)
	@geyser:		@geyser:
	:		:
	I've read it, but I don't have so much time yet. (Btw, is there anything to synchronize left over? At the moment I have to take care that I don't left to much behind the wiki.)		:I've read it, but I don't have so much time yet. (Btw, is there anything to synchronize left over? At the moment I have to take care that I don't left to much behind the wiki.)
	:		::;ssg
			:I can't say I fully understand the sentences in brackets.
			:As for the syntax and the looks, new-format pages like [[ABNA]] are not perfect, but already much better than older ones, not to mention things like [[ONOA]] (raw HTML...)
			:As for the knowledge: yes, there are files for which the documentation is more complete on OS than on OG. I can't systematically synchronize everything by myself...
			:In some cases, there are files for which OG is ahead of OS. You shouldn't be too worried about that, since the wiki holds a full history of the pages.
			:Just update everything in an "automatic" way, and then we'll compare with previous versions and merge stuff in.
			::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 18:27, 2 May 2007 (CEST)

Ssg at 10:53, 2 May 2007

2007-05-02T10:53:16Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 I don't feel comfortable with that 12/20 bit thing. 12 bit, that means a max of 4096 gunk quads per leaf node. That seems a bit to much to me. The GDC-paper says, that 256 is the limit. Did they increased it?
+:
@@ Line 99: / Line 19: @@
 Anyway, it makes sense to increase the number of quads per leaf rather than decreasing the leaf minimum size. Of course 4095 quads per leaf would be way too much but nobody says that the max value used is 4095. The max value for 12/20 is 426 and this happens in a place where the geometry is a bit complex - level 2, a piece of the deadly brain thingie (and that leaf is 16 in size, the smaller size possibile so it's normal that the max number of quads was bumped up).
 [[User:Neo|Neo]]
 :''"If you look to package 16, the 20-bit is 256 (read from right to left). What does it tell me?
 :''Start with package 256 and read 227 packages or start at position 256 and read 227 packages?"
@@ Line 104: / Line 25: @@
 :Thanks for ignoring my request to resume synchronization of Oni Galore with Oni Stuff, BTW ^^
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 00:29, 28 April 2007 (CEST)

Geyser: arrays, elements and indices

2007-04-27T22:29:21Z

arrays, elements and indices

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:29, 27 April 2007
Line 99:		Line 99:
	Anyway, it makes sense to increase the number of quads per leaf rather than decreasing the leaf minimum size. Of course 4095 quads per leaf would be way too much but nobody says that the max value used is 4095. The max value for 12/20 is 426 and this happens in a place where the geometry is a bit complex - level 2, a piece of the deadly brain thingie (and that leaf is 16 in size, the smaller size possibile so it's normal that the max number of quads was bumped up).		Anyway, it makes sense to increase the number of quads per leaf rather than decreasing the leaf minimum size. Of course 4095 quads per leaf would be way too much but nobody says that the max value used is 4095. The max value for 12/20 is 426 and this happens in a place where the geometry is a bit complex - level 2, a piece of the deadly brain thingie (and that leaf is 16 in size, the smaller size possibile so it's normal that the max number of quads was bumped up).
	[[User:Neo\|Neo]]		[[User:Neo\|Neo]]
			:''"If you look to package 16, the 20-bit is 256 (read from right to left). What does it tell me?
			:''Start with package 256 and read 227 packages or start at position 256 and read 227 packages?"
			:The former. Read 227 elements ("packages") starting with element number 256. Index, not offset.
			:Thanks for ignoring my request to resume synchronization of Oni Galore with Oni Stuff, BTW ^^
			::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 00:29, 28 April 2007 (CEST)

Neo at 21:59, 27 April 2007

2007-04-27T21:59:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:59, 27 April 2007
Line 93:		Line 93:
	:		:
	[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 16:07, 27 April 2007 (CEST)		[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 16:07, 27 April 2007 (CEST)
			---
			:
			Well, the 12/20 thing comes from the exe so it should be correct. Besides, my environment viewer works fine with 12/20 ^^.
			:
			Anyway, it makes sense to increase the number of quads per leaf rather than decreasing the leaf minimum size. Of course 4095 quads per leaf would be way too much but nobody says that the max value used is 4095. The max value for 12/20 is 426 and this happens in a place where the geometry is a bit complex - level 2, a piece of the deadly brain thingie (and that leaf is 16 in size, the smaller size possibile so it's normal that the max number of quads was bumped up).
			[[User:Neo\|Neo]]

Ssg: I don't feel comfortable with that 12/20 bit thing.

2007-04-27T14:07:46Z

I don't feel comfortable with that 12/20 bit thing.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:07, 27 April 2007
Line 77:		Line 77:
	==> 12/20: Oha... it seems, that they have changed it after Brent Pease has left Bungie. [[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 10:01, 23 April 2007 (CEST)		==> 12/20: Oha... it seems, that they have changed it after Brent Pease has left Bungie. [[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 10:01, 23 April 2007 (CEST)
	:		:
			---
			:
			I don't feel comfortable with that 12/20 bit thing. 12 bit, that means a max of 4096 gunk quads per leaf node. That seems a bit to much to me. The GDC-paper says, that 256 is the limit. Did they increased it?
			:
			Maybe we can look at first 4 bytes of the OTLF packages 15 and 16 (IIRC) of level 3:
			:
			package 15: 13000000 ==> 12 bit = 130 (hex) = 304 (dez)<BR>
			package 16: 0E300100 ==> 12 bit = 0E3 (hex) = 227 (dez)
			:
			That's what you get, if you read the 12-bit from right to left. If you calculate the sum of all 12-bits you get 2 million and a bit. Plus the highest 12-bit is 4080, which means 4080 gunk quads in a leaf node. If you read the 12-bit from left to right, the sum ist ~ 3 milllion and the highest value 4081.
			:
			Maybe they've used the factor four, because a lot of the packages overlap each other. (Dunno if this is really a reason.)
			:
			If you look to package 16, the 20-bit ist 256 (read from right to left). What does it tell me? Start with package 256 and read 227 packages or start at position 256 and read 227 packages? Or something else?
			:
			[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 16:07, 27 April 2007 (CEST)

Ssg at 08:01, 23 April 2007

2007-04-23T08:01:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:01, 23 April 2007
Line 69:		Line 69:
	Yes to both questions.		Yes to both questions.
	:*First one:		:*First one:
	::For the size and position you must note that the maximum position of the octree node is stored. This leads to the fact that the maximum values must all be 511 because this is the size of the octtree and no nodes can be missing. This leaves as with just to cases to consider: 7, 127, 127, 127 and 28, 508, 508, 508.		::For the size and position you must note that the maximum position of the octree node is stored. This leads to the fact that the maximum values must all be 511 because this is the size of the octtree and no nodes can be missing. This leaves as with just to cases to consider: 7, 127, 127, 127 and 28, 508, 508, 508.
	::Now the size of an octtree node is always a power of 2 so 28 or 7 are not sizes but powers and 28 will be a huge size for an octtree node (in fact you need to add 4 to this value to get the power, that means 28 ends up as 32 which is even bigger...).		::Now the size of an octtree node is always a power of 2 so 28 or 7 are not sizes but powers and 28 will be a huge size for an octtree node (in fact you need to add 4 to this value to get the power, that means 28 ends up as 32 which is even bigger...).
	:*Second one:		:*Second one:
	::As for 12/20 bits vs. 8/24 bits: well, there must be a reason for "*) You have to devide the offset by 4 to get the correct offset." :). Of course 4 means only a 2 bit difference but there is another 2 bit difference from the fact that it's a index and not an offset. There is no file in Oni where an array offset is used instead of an array index as far as I know.		::As for 12/20 bits vs. 8/24 bits: well, there must be a reason for "*) You have to devide the offset by 4 to get the correct offset." :). Of course 4 means only a 2 bit difference but there is another 2 bit difference from the fact that it's a index and not an offset. There is no file in Oni where an array offset is used instead of an array index as far as I know.
	[[User:Neo\|Neo]]		[[User:Neo\|Neo]]
			:
			==> 12/20: Oha... it seems, that they have changed it after Brent Pease has left Bungie. [[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 10:01, 23 April 2007 (CEST)
			:

Neo at 14:34, 20 April 2007

2007-04-20T14:34:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:34, 20 April 2007
Line 66:		Line 66:
	:		:
	[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 15:31, 20 April 2007 (CEST)		[[User:Ssg\|Ssg]] 15:31, 20 April 2007 (CEST)

			Yes to both questions.
			:*First one:
			::For the size and position you must note that the maximum position of the octree node is stored. This leads to the fact that the maximum values must all be 511 because this is the size of the octtree and no nodes can be missing. This leaves as with just to cases to consider: 7, 127, 127, 127 and 28, 508, 508, 508.
			::Now the size of an octtree node is always a power of 2 so 28 or 7 are not sizes but powers and 28 will be a huge size for an octtree node (in fact you need to add 4 to this value to get the power, that means 28 ends up as 32 which is even bigger...).
			:*Second one:
			::As for 12/20 bits vs. 8/24 bits: well, there must be a reason for "*) You have to devide the offset by 4 to get the correct offset." :). Of course 4 means only a 2 bit difference but there is another 2 bit difference from the fact that it's a index and not an offset. There is no file in Oni where an array offset is used instead of an array index as far as I know.
			[[User:Neo\|Neo]]