User talk:Iritscen/Archive1 - Revision history

Iritscen: marked dead link

2023-05-15T01:09:37Z

marked dead link

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:09, 15 May 2023
Line 458:		Line 458:
	==Collada import fixed in OniSplit v0.9.16==		==Collada import fixed in OniSplit v0.9.16==
	:After testing the 3 post-Blender DAE provided by Iritscen (Barabas, Motoko, Griffin), it appears that only Griffin makes Oni crash as of OniSplit v0.9.15 (because the head ends up with 4457 points, and 4457>2048); for the other 2 models, the TRBS were faceted, but still well below the 2048 limit. It turns out that all the COLLADA files are OK (even if it's a shame what Blender does to normals): the actual problem was that OniSplit's [-normals] feature was implemented incorrectly and failed to eliminate the many duplicate vertices/normals/UVs.		:After testing the 3 post-Blender DAE provided by Iritscen (Barabas, Motoko, Griffin), it appears that only Griffin makes Oni crash as of OniSplit v0.9.15 (because the head ends up with 4457 points, and 4457>2048); for the other 2 models, the TRBS were faceted, but still well below the 2048 limit. It turns out that all the COLLADA files are OK (even if it's a shame what Blender does to normals): the actual problem was that OniSplit's [-normals] feature was implemented incorrectly and failed to eliminate the many duplicate vertices/normals/UVs.
	:The [https://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/OniSplit/OniSplit\|_v0.9.16.zip ~~NEW VERSION]~~ does that correctly, and should work optimally with both the .dae exported by Blender and the ones generated from Cheetah-made FBX by Autodesk's converter. Be sure to use the -normals tag so that the not-quite-smooth normals in the DAE are ignored and 100%-smooth normals are generated instead: that's when the point count of the TRBS will be minimal. Thus, Barabas's head went down from 129 points to 128 with OniSplit 0.9.16.		:The NEW VERSION (<nowiki>https://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/OniSplit/OniSplit\|_v0.9.16.zip</nowiki>, dead link) does that correctly, and should work optimally with both the .dae exported by Blender and the ones generated from Cheetah-made FBX by Autodesk's converter. Be sure to use the -normals tag so that the not-quite-smooth normals in the DAE are ignored and 100%-smooth normals are generated instead: that's when the point count of the TRBS will be minimal. Thus, Barabas's head went down from 129 points to 128 with OniSplit 0.9.16.
	:As for HD Griffin (imported with 0.9.16), the head has exactly 1024 points, and 1832 with cel-shading: clearly overkill, but at least it's below the limit and it doesn't make Oni crash. The source file I'm working with is TRBSgriffin_body_high_EdT.dae from that drop.io folder (why the frack are you guys messing with temporary links and accounts rather than uploading on oni2.net, BTW?)		:As for HD Griffin (imported with 0.9.16), the head has exactly 1024 points, and 1832 with cel-shading: clearly overkill, but at least it's below the limit and it doesn't make Oni crash. The source file I'm working with is TRBSgriffin_body_high_EdT.dae from that drop.io folder (why the frack are you guys messing with temporary links and accounts rather than uploading on oni2.net, BTW?)
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 19:52, 7 June 2008 (CEST)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 19:52, 7 June 2008 (CEST)

Iritscen: http->https

2023-05-07T00:32:06Z

http->https

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:32, 7 May 2023
Line 458:		Line 458:
	==Collada import fixed in OniSplit v0.9.16==		==Collada import fixed in OniSplit v0.9.16==
	:After testing the 3 post-Blender DAE provided by Iritscen (Barabas, Motoko, Griffin), it appears that only Griffin makes Oni crash as of OniSplit v0.9.15 (because the head ends up with 4457 points, and 4457>2048); for the other 2 models, the TRBS were faceted, but still well below the 2048 limit. It turns out that all the COLLADA files are OK (even if it's a shame what Blender does to normals): the actual problem was that OniSplit's [-normals] feature was implemented incorrectly and failed to eliminate the many duplicate vertices/normals/UVs.		:After testing the 3 post-Blender DAE provided by Iritscen (Barabas, Motoko, Griffin), it appears that only Griffin makes Oni crash as of OniSplit v0.9.15 (because the head ends up with 4457 points, and 4457>2048); for the other 2 models, the TRBS were faceted, but still well below the 2048 limit. It turns out that all the COLLADA files are OK (even if it's a shame what Blender does to normals): the actual problem was that OniSplit's [-normals] feature was implemented incorrectly and failed to eliminate the many duplicate vertices/normals/UVs.
	:The [~~http~~://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/OniSplit/OniSplit\|_v0.9.16.zip NEW VERSION] does that correctly, and should work optimally with both the .dae exported by Blender and the ones generated from Cheetah-made FBX by Autodesk's converter. Be sure to use the -normals tag so that the not-quite-smooth normals in the DAE are ignored and 100%-smooth normals are generated instead: that's when the point count of the TRBS will be minimal. Thus, Barabas's head went down from 129 points to 128 with OniSplit 0.9.16.		:The [https://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/OniSplit/OniSplit\|_v0.9.16.zip NEW VERSION] does that correctly, and should work optimally with both the .dae exported by Blender and the ones generated from Cheetah-made FBX by Autodesk's converter. Be sure to use the -normals tag so that the not-quite-smooth normals in the DAE are ignored and 100%-smooth normals are generated instead: that's when the point count of the TRBS will be minimal. Thus, Barabas's head went down from 129 points to 128 with OniSplit 0.9.16.
	:As for HD Griffin (imported with 0.9.16), the head has exactly 1024 points, and 1832 with cel-shading: clearly overkill, but at least it's below the limit and it doesn't make Oni crash. The source file I'm working with is TRBSgriffin_body_high_EdT.dae from that drop.io folder (why the frack are you guys messing with temporary links and accounts rather than uploading on oni2.net, BTW?)		:As for HD Griffin (imported with 0.9.16), the head has exactly 1024 points, and 1832 with cel-shading: clearly overkill, but at least it's below the limit and it doesn't make Oni crash. The source file I'm working with is TRBSgriffin_body_high_EdT.dae from that drop.io folder (why the frack are you guys messing with temporary links and accounts rather than uploading on oni2.net, BTW?)
	::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 19:52, 7 June 2008 (CEST)		::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 19:52, 7 June 2008 (CEST)

Iritscen: fixed WP redirect

2022-06-28T02:34:01Z

fixed WP redirect

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:34, 28 June 2022
Line 30:		Line 30:
	----		----
	'''Seriously, if you have time, can you write an AE wiki tutorial about how you modified Griffin's head --[[User:EdT\|EdT]] 06:41, 5 June 2008 (CEST)'''		'''Seriously, if you have time, can you write an AE wiki tutorial about how you modified Griffin's head --[[User:EdT\|EdT]] 06:41, 5 June 2008 (CEST)'''
	:Quite. "How to [[~~wikipedia~~:FUBAR\|FU]] Griffin's head [[~~wikipedia~~:FUBAR\|BAR]]: a Blender tutorial by Iritscen". Definitely looking forward to it. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:35, 5 June 2008 (CEST)		:Quite. "How to [[wp:List of military slang terms#FUBAR\|FU]] Griffin's head [[wp:List of military slang terms#FUBAR\|BAR]]: a Blender tutorial by Iritscen". Definitely looking forward to it. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 22:35, 5 June 2008 (CEST)
	::...Are you saying you don't agree with a modeling decision I made with Griffin, or that I FUBARed the actual model file? Choose your words carefully, [[friend]]. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 22:57, 5 June 2008 (CEST)		::...Are you saying you don't agree with a modeling decision I made with Griffin, or that I FUBARed the actual model file? Choose your words carefully, [[friend]]. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 22:57, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Iritscen: +cat

2022-05-04T02:14:59Z

+cat

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 4 May 2022
Line 477:		Line 477:
	:::Thirdly, what the blam are you talking about? '''Asymmetric operations'''? In Griffin's ''face''? I hope that's not what you're saying. Please, geyser, if you really mean that, you must upload an image with the kind of notes that I made on the screenshots of Griffin and Muro, where I pointed out their existing flaws. I simply cannot imagine what you are seeing unless you are due for a new prescription on your glasses. Now, if you're talking about the hair, it's true that it is not perfectly symmetrical. This was intentional on my part, as a matter of fact. When dealing with stylized hair (such as the traditional anime spiky 'do), symmetry actually looks wrong. Hair is supposed to be organic. It's impossible to model it in a way that looks totally natural working with the technology available to us, but at the least, I thought that if Griffin's new hair had spikes added (in line with Lorraine's art), then they oughtn't to look symmetrical because then it looks cheesy. So the idea is that Griffin combs his hair back every day, but it goes back slightly differently on one side than on the other. I don't have the time to check out Konoko's original model at the moment, but I'm pretty sure her spikes are quite asymmetrical too. Not sure if that's what you were talking about or not, but honestly, saying things like "the mesh looks more like Mutant Griffin right now" is just not good for you.		:::Thirdly, what the blam are you talking about? '''Asymmetric operations'''? In Griffin's ''face''? I hope that's not what you're saying. Please, geyser, if you really mean that, you must upload an image with the kind of notes that I made on the screenshots of Griffin and Muro, where I pointed out their existing flaws. I simply cannot imagine what you are seeing unless you are due for a new prescription on your glasses. Now, if you're talking about the hair, it's true that it is not perfectly symmetrical. This was intentional on my part, as a matter of fact. When dealing with stylized hair (such as the traditional anime spiky 'do), symmetry actually looks wrong. Hair is supposed to be organic. It's impossible to model it in a way that looks totally natural working with the technology available to us, but at the least, I thought that if Griffin's new hair had spikes added (in line with Lorraine's art), then they oughtn't to look symmetrical because then it looks cheesy. So the idea is that Griffin combs his hair back every day, but it goes back slightly differently on one side than on the other. I don't have the time to check out Konoko's original model at the moment, but I'm pretty sure her spikes are quite asymmetrical too. Not sure if that's what you were talking about or not, but honestly, saying things like "the mesh looks more like Mutant Griffin right now" is just not good for you.
	:::--[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 17:26, 11 June 2008 (CEST)		:::--[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 17:26, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

			[[Category:Userspace]]

Iritscen: removing link to deleted tutorial

2021-11-06T00:47:50Z

removing link to deleted tutorial

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:47, 6 November 2021
Line 39:		Line 39:
	[[User:EdT\|EdT]] 02:12, 11 June 2008 (CEST)		[[User:EdT\|EdT]] 02:12, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

	I have written a first draft of a tutorial that is aimed at total newbies to 3D work and to Blender. It's currently a subpage at [[User:Iritscen/BlenderTutorial]]. It can be left there until done or I can finish it after someone moves it somewhere. I'm basically leaving that to geyser or someone else with the time to think about where it should go (but I know you have your strong views on how pages should be organized, geyser, so I imagine you should be the one to find a place for it). Please read the comments hidden with the <nowiki><!----></nowiki> tags, too.		I have written a first draft of a tutorial that is aimed at total newbies to 3D work and to Blender. It's currently a subpage at User:Iritscen/BlenderTutorial [This was deleted after languishing unfinished for years. --Iritscen]. It can be left there until done or I can finish it after someone moves it somewhere. I'm basically leaving that to geyser or someone else with the time to think about where it should go (but I know you have your strong views on how pages should be organized, geyser, so I imagine you should be the one to find a place for it). Please read the comments hidden with the <nowiki><!----></nowiki> tags, too.
	--[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 17:37, 11 June 2008 (CEST)		--[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 17:37, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Iritscen: marking two more copies of a dead link as dead (not sure why this issue only showed up today when the first copy of the link was marked as dead last August)

2021-05-30T19:17:57Z

marking two more copies of a dead link as dead (not sure why this issue only showed up today when the first copy of the link was marked as dead last August)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:17, 30 May 2021
Line 131:		Line 131:
	:::::Actually, everything but Griffin's head is untouched ''and 100% correct'', so you can work with Iritscen's file, without pasting the head elsewhere. [[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::Actually, everything but Griffin's head is untouched ''and 100% correct'', so you can work with Iritscen's file, without pasting the head elsewhere. [[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::geyser... you're looking at Ed's fixed version, aren't you? I refused to link to mine because it was so messed up. If the copy you're looking at has correct part names, then ''it's not the copy I was working with''. It would be a waste of time to examine that model and fix every problem when Neo has already fixed the export bugs and newly-made exports are fine. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		::::::geyser... you're looking at Ed's fixed version, aren't you? I refused to link to mine because it was so messed up. If the copy you're looking at has correct part names, then ''it's not the copy I was working with''. It would be a waste of time to examine that model and fix every problem when Neo has already fixed the export bugs and newly-made exports are fine. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	:::::::No, I'm looking at [https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre ~~THIS] one~~. As far as I can tell it's the exact same "flawed" version as you gave to Ed, and apart from the head name/hierarchy/placement (and the head mesh per se) there's nothing wrong with that model. Oh, and I still don't like how you blame OniSplit (version number?) for abstract bugs. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::::No, I'm looking at this one (<nowiki>https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre</nowiki>, dead link). As far as I can tell it's the exact same "flawed" version as you gave to Ed, and apart from the head name/hierarchy/placement (and the head mesh per se) there's nothing wrong with that model. Oh, and I still don't like how you blame OniSplit (version number?) for abstract bugs. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::::Whoops, I forgot Ed linked to my uploaded flawed model. See below for my answer on the "abstract bug" part. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		::::::::Whoops, I forgot Ed linked to my uploaded flawed model. See below for my answer on the "abstract bug" part. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	:Make the changes.		:Make the changes.
Line 156:		Line 156:
	:::::::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::::I have yet to try to import my exported .dae back into Blender and export it again, so I can't say yet if it will work for me. But I will follow geyser's advice about exporting from now on. The point about selecting all body parts and only exporting the selection, in particular, may be key to avoiding future problems. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		::::::::I have yet to try to import my exported .dae back into Blender and export it again, so I can't say yet if it will work for me. But I will follow geyser's advice about exporting from now on. The point about selecting all body parts and only exporting the selection, in particular, may be key to avoiding future problems. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	:::::::::Well, DAEs exported with scene metadata are annoying more than anything else. It will justs end up as nested scenes when and if you import and reexport the DAE again, but it doesn't screw up the model in any way. For one thing, [https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre ~~THIS]~~ includes scene data and I can work with it just fine.		:::::::::Well, DAEs exported with scene metadata are annoying more than anything else. It will justs end up as nested scenes when and if you import and reexport the DAE again, but it doesn't screw up the model in any way. For one thing, this (<nowiki>https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre</nowiki>, dead link) includes scene data and I can work with it just fine.
	:::::::::Please note your misunderstanding of Ed's DAE->DAE problem as an example of a situation where early disambiguation wouldn't have hurt. Just because you and Ed have been talking about Blender and HD Griffin in private doesn't make you able to read each other's minds. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::::::Please note your misunderstanding of Ed's DAE->DAE problem as an example of a situation where early disambiguation wouldn't have hurt. Just because you and Ed have been talking about Blender and HD Griffin in private doesn't make you able to read each other's minds. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::::::I know what you're talking about when you say the scene metadata is annoying, I tried to read the file once with the naked eye, and got pretty ticked off trying to make heads or tails out of all the nesting.		::::::::::I know what you're talking about when you say the scene metadata is annoying, I tried to read the file once with the naked eye, and got pretty ticked off trying to make heads or tails out of all the nesting.

Iritscen: link fix

2021-02-09T19:50:16Z

link fix

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, 9 February 2021
Line 11:		Line 11:

	----		----
	Here's an interesting article: Starbucks offers 2 hours free wifi each day. https://~~www~~.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-06-02-starbucks-wifi_N.htm		Here's an interesting article: Starbucks offers 2 hours free wifi each day. https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-06-02-starbucks-wifi_N.htm

	Also, this site may help: https://www.wififreespot.com/		Also, this site may help: https://www.wififreespot.com/

ValBot: changing link from http->https

2021-02-07T02:18:08Z

changing link from http->https

ValBot: changing link from http->https

2021-02-07T02:18:01Z

changing link from http->https

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:18, 7 February 2021
Line 13:		Line 13:
	Here's an interesting article: Starbucks offers 2 hours free wifi each day. https://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-06-02-starbucks-wifi_N.htm		Here's an interesting article: Starbucks offers 2 hours free wifi each day. https://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-06-02-starbucks-wifi_N.htm

	Also, this site may help: ~~http~~://www.wififreespot.com/		Also, this site may help: https://www.wififreespot.com/

	So now you have no excuse for not hanging out at the OCF and the wiki, during your move :-)		So now you have no excuse for not hanging out at the OCF and the wiki, during your move :-)

ValBot: changing link from http->https

2021-02-07T02:17:54Z

changing link from http->https

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:17, 7 February 2021
Line 11:		Line 11:

	----		----
	Here's an interesting article: Starbucks offers 2 hours free wifi each day. ~~http~~://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-06-02-starbucks-wifi_N.htm		Here's an interesting article: Starbucks offers 2 hours free wifi each day. https://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-06-02-starbucks-wifi_N.htm

	Also, this site may help: http://www.wififreespot.com/		Also, this site may help: http://www.wififreespot.com/

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:17, 30 May 2021
Line 131:		Line 131:
	:::::Actually, everything but Griffin's head is untouched ''and 100% correct'', so you can work with Iritscen's file, without pasting the head elsewhere. [[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::Actually, everything but Griffin's head is untouched ''and 100% correct'', so you can work with Iritscen's file, without pasting the head elsewhere. [[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::geyser... you're looking at Ed's fixed version, aren't you? I refused to link to mine because it was so messed up. If the copy you're looking at has correct part names, then ''it's not the copy I was working with''. It would be a waste of time to examine that model and fix every problem when Neo has already fixed the export bugs and newly-made exports are fine. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		::::::geyser... you're looking at Ed's fixed version, aren't you? I refused to link to mine because it was so messed up. If the copy you're looking at has correct part names, then ''it's not the copy I was working with''. It would be a waste of time to examine that model and fix every problem when Neo has already fixed the export bugs and newly-made exports are fine. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	:::::::No, I'm looking at [https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre ~~THIS] one~~. As far as I can tell it's the exact same "flawed" version as you gave to Ed, and apart from the head name/hierarchy/placement (and the head mesh per se) there's nothing wrong with that model. Oh, and I still don't like how you blame OniSplit (version number?) for abstract bugs. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::::No, I'm looking at this one (<nowiki>https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre</nowiki>, dead link). As far as I can tell it's the exact same "flawed" version as you gave to Ed, and apart from the head name/hierarchy/placement (and the head mesh per se) there's nothing wrong with that model. Oh, and I still don't like how you blame OniSplit (version number?) for abstract bugs. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::::Whoops, I forgot Ed linked to my uploaded flawed model. See below for my answer on the "abstract bug" part. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		::::::::Whoops, I forgot Ed linked to my uploaded flawed model. See below for my answer on the "abstract bug" part. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	:Make the changes.		:Make the changes.
Line 156:		Line 156:
	:::::::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::::[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::::I have yet to try to import my exported .dae back into Blender and export it again, so I can't say yet if it will work for me. But I will follow geyser's advice about exporting from now on. The point about selecting all body parts and only exporting the selection, in particular, may be key to avoiding future problems. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		::::::::I have yet to try to import my exported .dae back into Blender and export it again, so I can't say yet if it will work for me. But I will follow geyser's advice about exporting from now on. The point about selecting all body parts and only exporting the selection, in particular, may be key to avoiding future problems. --[[User:Iritscen\|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	:::::::::Well, DAEs exported with scene metadata are annoying more than anything else. It will justs end up as nested scenes when and if you import and reexport the DAE again, but it doesn't screw up the model in any way. For one thing, [https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre ~~THIS]~~ includes scene data and I can work with it just fine.		:::::::::Well, DAEs exported with scene metadata are annoying more than anything else. It will justs end up as nested scenes when and if you import and reexport the DAE again, but it doesn't screw up the model in any way. For one thing, this (<nowiki>https://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre</nowiki>, dead link) includes scene data and I can work with it just fine.
	:::::::::Please note your misunderstanding of Ed's DAE->DAE problem as an example of a situation where early disambiguation wouldn't have hurt. Just because you and Ed have been talking about Blender and HD Griffin in private doesn't make you able to read each other's minds. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)		:::::::::Please note your misunderstanding of Ed's DAE->DAE problem as an example of a situation where early disambiguation wouldn't have hurt. Just because you and Ed have been talking about Blender and HD Griffin in private doesn't make you able to read each other's minds. --[[User:Geyser\|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST)
	::::::::::I know what you're talking about when you say the scene metadata is annoying, I tried to read the file once with the naked eye, and got pretty ticked off trying to make heads or tails out of all the nesting.		::::::::::I know what you're talking about when you say the scene metadata is annoying, I tried to read the file once with the naked eye, and got pretty ticked off trying to make heads or tails out of all the nesting.