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| :Only the most recent entries are visible | | ==Skybox images== |
| ::(older ones have been commented out). | | |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET) | | The [http://ssg.oni2.net/test/skyhtm/sky.htm skies from Mafia] (sorry for the bad thumbnail quality) for Oni: [http://ssg.oni2.net/test/skyhtm/skyhex.zip skyhex.zip] (~10 mb) |
| : | | |
| No time to log in, sorry. Text was written at home.
| | A hex file contains the data (images flipped, mirrored and 32bit) for the raw/sep files. Copy the data of the sky you like to the end of a raw/sep file (with a hex editor) and change the raw/sep link of the sky images in the dat file (with OniUnPacker). Every image has a size of 256x256 pixels, which is a length of 40000 in hex. |
| : | | |
| <!--
| | For example, if the inserted hex data starts at position 0x02355500, the links have to be changed to: |
| | |
| | :front: 0x02355500 |
| | :left: 0x02395500 |
| | :back: 0x023D5500 |
| | :right: 0x02415500 |
| | :top: 0x02455500 |
| | |
| | [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 12:31, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | :Ssg, while those look very nice, there are simpler ways of doing things nowadays. :P We could make them into actual new skys if you wanted. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 19:01, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | :Glad to see you again, Ssg. I'd love it if you stuck around for a while. But wow, you have a lot of catching up to do when it comes to our modding abilities :-) --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:25, 24 December 2008 (CET) [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 19:46, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | What do you mean by "make them into actual new skys"? Put them into AE? Change them? [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 19:25, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | :Using Onisplit\AE framework, make a new ONSK. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 19:33, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | @Gumby: Does Onisplit/AE mirror and flip the images and change them into 32 bit automatically? |
| | No, no, and yes. But mirroring and flipping are easy to do in an image editing program. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 20:06, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | @Iritscen: I wasn't really away. I've been following the things roughly going on at the Oni Central forum and here. So I'm not that much lost. :-) [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 19:46, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | :ssg: Can you post the actual image files? I used the thumbnails for the test sky, also, it seems the left and right are off somehow: |
| | [[Image:sky13.jpg]] |
| | |
| | I used OniSplit to create the new ONSK file [[User:EdT|EdT]] |
| | |
| | @EdT: I can post the image files next year. (I don't have them here at my parents.) |
| | |
| | The thumbnails are not mirrored and flipped. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 21:02, 25 December 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | The [http://ssg.oni2.net/test/skyhtm/skybmp.zip skies] mirrored, flipped and as 24bit bmp files. (zip file, ~10 mb) [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 09:57, 9 January 2009 (CET) |
| | |
| | ssg: The skies look great except for the top image: |
| | |
| | [[Image:Airportsky13.jpg]] |
| | |
| | [[User:EdT|EdT]] |
| | |
| | :Are you sure its not just all the other images? :) |
| | |
| | I've no idea what's wrong with the top image. I've tested all of them on my pc and they worked great. |
| | |
| | :I noticed some of the sky files needed to be rotated 180 degrees such as the previous attempt. But if I layout the photos in Photoshop first, I can order the files correctly. [[User:EdT|EdT]] 01:34, 21 January 2009 (CET) |
| | |
| | [[Image:sky9.jpg]] |
| | |
| | |
| | Um, am I the only one who wants to turn his head on its side to look at that shot? ^_^' Don't you think that sky texture should be rotated 90° counter-clockwise? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:11, 21 January 2009 (CET) |
| | |
| | |
| | ==Bungie TV from Macworld 2000== |
| | |
| | I found some old Bungie TV videos from the Macworld 2000 on the net today. |
| | |
| | Here's a [http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/btv%20pamphlet/Inside.jpg pic with the content] of the vids (~300 kb) |
| | |
| | *[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/bungie_tour_100.mov Day 1] (mov file, 160 x 120, 5 min 33 sec, ~29 mb) - contains only the Bungie East tour; the rest was never part of the file (see [http://web.archive.org/web/20000817095745/www.bungie.com/btv/archive/ here]; look at the filename) |
| | *[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/bTV_day2_big.mov Day 2] (mov file, 160 x 120, 38 min 30 sec, ~182 mb) - best vid, trip to Bungie West (Oni headquarters) plus Steve Abeyta shows some disarm moves |
| | *:If anyone just wants to see the short bit of in-game footage (which is supposed to show the disarm moves but inadvertently demoes the working multiplayer they'd end up cutting), it's been clipped out and uploaded [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSV_DlalNpE here]. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:33, 24 December 2008 (CET) |
| | *[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/bTV_day3_large.mov Day 3] (mov file, 160 x 120, 29 min 07 sec, ~217 mb) - see content pic above, lots of blah blah plus a ingame Halo preview at the end |
| | *[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/bTV_day4_100.mov Day 4] (mov file, 160 x 120, 37 min 22 sec, ~277 mb) - see content pic above, very short ingame Halo preview, rest blah blah |
| | |
| | You can also download day two, three and four in very extra low poor quality [http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/ here] (first three links, 5 to 12 mb), but that's more pixel art than a video. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 00:10, 20 January 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | ::Cool, look forward to watching these. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:36, 5 March 2008 (CET) |
| | ::I'm going to be linking the Bungie West and East articles to the tour vids (Day 1 and Day 2), so hopefully these files will stay around for a while. Can I count on that to be the case? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:01, 20 March 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | ??? Why are you asking me that? I have no influence in the matter. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 00:28, 22 March 2008 (CET) |
| | :I assumed that you uploaded them. Whose files are they? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:01, 24 March 2008 (CET) |
| | |
| | ==Bluebox screenshots== |
| | :About the BBBB screenshots you've been adding to [[BINA]] |
| | :#It would be nice if you described how they were obtained. |
| | :#Are you sure '''navi.TXMP''' and '''buttons.TXMP''' are appropriate? |
| | :I'm pretty sure there is another, more plain-looking TXMP. |
| | :Not '''g206_controls_128x64.TXMP''', but something close... |
| | ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 20:14, 24 September 2007 (CEST) |
| ---- | | ---- |
| :I have a few complaints about the image files you just uploaded : | | To 1: |
| :*Their names are not capitalized properly (i.e., in consistence with the OBD file types);
| | |
| :*There's no specific information on the file the data belongs to;
| | #added WMDDs from Level0_Tools.dat to Level0_Final.dat |
| :*They can't be easily renamed or reorganized (e.g., split) : a "feature" of image pages;
| | #replaced the dialog ID (0x108) of the [[OBD:WMDD|WMDD]] with the dialog ID of the help-window (or whatever it's called; it's the window that pops up when you press F1) |
| :*Those images are not supposed to be thumbnailed : they'll be included in one page and that's all.
| | |
| :I'd say there are other ways to ''actually'' improve OBD right now :
| | To 2: |
| :*updating information : half of the "unknown" fields are actually known by now;
| | :I'm not sure what you mean. Do you refer to the fact that some stuff in the iamges is overlapping? (If yes: Well, I never thought about that. I was too fixated on making the WMMDs visible, I guess.) |
| :*homogenizing the format (using the special "OBD" header/footer/table templates).
| | |
| :If you want to upload images on oni2.net, I suggest you do it on ssg.oni2.net
| | '''Edit''' |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:01, 31 October 2006 (CET)
| | |
| :And you flooded the Recent Changes, too ^^
| | I've changed in the last part of the dat file the name psui_oniUI to psui_oniUi. After that Oni reads the psui_g206 file. The result is this: |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:03, 31 October 2006 (CET)
| | |
| ----
| | now: [[Image:Tool dialog - Edit Combat old.jpg]] before: [[Image:Tool dialog - Edit Combat older.jpg]] |
| *Normally they aren't capitalized. Wiki did that. (Who cares about that? Is this important?)
| | |
| *I know it.
| | [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 14:59, 11 December 2007 (CET) |
| *First: Please don't rename them. Second: You can overwrite it f.e. with the first part of a splitted image and add the the other splitted parts as seperate images.
| |
| *Normally they aren't thumbnailed. Wiki did that.
| |
| :-
| |
| *Be patient.
| |
| *I've saved the header and footer templates already. (Where are table templates?)
| |
| *No one can alter images on ssg.oni2.net, except the admin and me, so I'd like to upload them to the wiki.
| |
| :-
| |
| *I'm sorry ;-)
| |
| :
| |
| :'''Edit:''' To your ONCP example:
| |
| *I won't add offsets. (Why does the offset of the package starts with 0x00?)
| |
| *I don't like the double border around the table.
| |
| *I won't split the table/images for such small images.
| |
| *I'll kick out the "overview @ Onistuff" and the "struct def for OUP"
| |
| {|width=100%
| |
| |align=right|ssg, 17:58, 1. November 2006 (CET)
| |
| |}
| |
| ----
| |
| notes:
| |
| *The inline table borders look only good with Firefox. Have to fix that.
| |
| *The brown table cell background colour doesn't fit to the white wiki background. Will look for some alternatives.
| |
| *Wiki does not thumbnail images if you use them in an article (tested with OBD:CRSA).
| |
| *Will update some more pages the next days/weeks. The ONGS file was only a check, if my offline html2wiki translator works fine.
| |
| :
| |
| {|width=100%
| |
| |align=right|[[User:80.78.168.2|80.78.168.2]] 19:45, 9 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| |}
| |
|
| |
|
| | Short note: if there are still dialogs from tools.dat that you do not have screenshots for here you go: |
| | <nowiki>https://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/tools_wmdd.zip</nowiki> (dead link) |
|
| |
|
| ----
| | [[User:Neo|Neo]] |
| Hm, things went faster than I thought. Some of your concerns/"threats" I didn't address [[Current events|HERE]].
| |
|
| |
|
| I'm glad you didn't actually "kick out" the "overview @ Onistuff" and the "struct def for OUP"... ^^
| | Cool. Thank you. Did you managed it to "actiivate" the "Tools" files? [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 01:19, 12 December 2007 (CET) |
|
| |
|
| But I ''really'' wish you held your horses with the wiki-based image business : as in "do we need this"?
| | If by activate you mean loading tools.dat in Oni then no. (Though I converted tools.dat to PC format but Oni crashes if it finds it and I did not bother to check why). Those images were generated with my viewer. |
|
| |
|
| That said, I'm positively impressed by your dedication and active contribution. Happy, even ^^
| | [[User:Neo|Neo]] |
|
| |
|
| ;Editing
| | Sorry for interrupting you guys a bit. |
| :Please log in unless you absolutely can't do so. You're gonna make me learn your IP by heart... ^^
| | I saw the new WMMDs.. Are you going to upgrade OniSplit or OUP like Bungie's original editor tool? That would be cool. How far are you done?<br> |
| ;Tables
| | By a side note: on "dialog_character_properties.png" you can see three different shields. So, maybe the (red one) "boss shield" was editable? |
| :The "File" in "OBD File Header" (or "... Footer") was for disambiguation from
| | :[[User:Paradox-01|Paradox-01]] 17:53, 12 December 2007 (CET) |
| ::"OBD BINA Header", "OBD OBJC Header", "OBD OSBD Header" and maybe others...
| |
| :Since your table will be used for generic binary chunks, regardless of where they belongs to,
| |
| ::I'd call your new template "OBD Table", as suggested earlier.
| |
| ;Tables too
| |
| :If you ask me, there's nothing ''very'' wrong with a light brown (gold) background.
| |
| ::Or with a white one, for that matter. Matches the default skin just fine. ^^
| |
| :::Anyway, I'm colorblind, so I'll let you handle those matters as you see fit.
| |
| :An "End" column is not needed. I'm not sure I'd call the first column "Start", but it's OK.
| |
| :I also don't like "Translation" and "Meaning" at all, but it's also cosmetic.
| |
| :As for the "Bytes", I think I'd replace it with a ''type'' when applicable
| |
| ::(long, short, float, level ID, file ID, RAW/SEP address)
| |
| :::(maybe with a distinction between different DAT-link and RAW-link types, OBD-style)
| |
| ::::(ideally, informative tables should replicate fully functional struct-defs and vice-versa)
| |
| ::Actually, I wouldn't integrate the column headers (or their sizes) into the template at all.
| |
| :::Because in specific cases, you may want to organize the data somewhat differently
| |
| ::::(e.g. [[OBD:BINA|HERE]] or [[OBD:TRAM/raw0x34|HERE]] or [[OBD:ONCC#0x15C_-_0x293|HERE]]) (it's messy, but you get the idea)
| |
| :The 100% width can be cancelled out by embedding the "OBD File Table" in another set of table tags
| |
| ::Custom alignment of small tables can be handled there, too.
| |
| :::Headers and column sizes can't be overridden that way, though.
| |
| :I think a good compromise would be to split the "OBD File Table" in two :
| |
| :*the first half including the table tags (fancy backgeound color, 100%, etc). We'd call it "Fancy Table" because it has nothing to do with OBD. | |
| :*the second half would be the header row, with its own fancy color, the column header names and their sizes. We'd call "Fancy OBD Header"
| |
| :Additionally, we can have a third template that just creates a row of "header" color, but doesn't specify column names and sizes. We'd call it "Fancy Header"
| |
| :By combining "Fancy Table" with either "Fancy OBD Header" or "Fancy Header", you'll be able to get :
| |
| :*the "predefined" format for documenting generic chunks of binary data
| |
| :*or a more "loose" (not OBD-specific) format where you'll be able to set up custom columns
| |
| :You can even use several "Fancy Header"s per table if you so wish
| |
| :We may also have such a "fancy row" template for the "Below follows the first package" (which is a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm#Semantic_pleonasm semantic pleonasm] BTW), probably with custom text. | |
|
| |
|
| ;Images:
| | Would it be possible for me to get a copy of Bluebox since I'm on the Mac? |
| :Thumbnailing : I ''know'' images don't get thumbnailed by default (duh)
| | [[User:EdT|EdT]] |
| ::The appearance on the article page will be ''exactly'' the same as with a URL
| |
| ::And that's exactly my problem : ''no one'' will ''ever'' want to thumbnail them
| |
| ::(or right-align them, or resize them, or do any fancy wiki-image stuff with them)
| |
| ::The only advantages are then :
| |
| ::*a shorter location to type
| |
| :::(but it's not like you type those links in often)
| |
| ::::(the image is featured on a single page and that's all)
| |
| ::*the ability for dedicated users to provide alternative snapshots
| |
| :::(but they can do it just fine by linking to remote images)
| |
| ::::(or, better, to images stored on their oni2.net accounts)
| |
| ::*the permanent presence of the image at that location and on oni2.net
| |
| :::(again, the more dedicated people get an account on oni2.net, the better)
| |
| ::::(in your case, is there a good reason for not mirroring stuff on ssg.oni2.net?)
| |
| :::::(if not for the whole site, at least the images...)
| |
| ::The inability to rename the images, and the lousy short-term flexibility (e.g., splitting/merging snapshots)
| |
| :::are IMO ''major drawbacks'' of wiki-based images as compared to external URLs.
| |
| ::::(in this specific case) (and so I'd really ask you to think it over again)
| |
| :Another "problem" (if you insist on having the images wiki-based) is with the format and filenames :
| |
| ::Make it PNG rather than GIF
| |
| ::Capitalize the names according to the names of the actual files | |
|
| |
|
| ;Images Too
| | Alloc or geyser can help, I guess. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 02:02, 20 January 2008 (CET) |
| :Whatever your "OBD Image" template is supposed to do, it's probably a bad idea. ^^
| |
| :Don't center images, or embed them in a table spanning the whole page. | |
| :Please don't. Or at least say what's wrong with plain old left-aligned images
| |
| ::(external ones ^^ )
| |
| :More generally, always think in terms of "what was wrong with the old stuff?"
| |
|
| |
|
| ;Images Again
| | I switched the bluebox images from the blue to the lila ones. Hope that was okay. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 18:07, 17 June 2008 (CEST) |
| :Actually, it may sound crazy, but I feel like taking [[Test#OBD file types|THIS]] experiment a bit further.
| | :Yes, it's OK. Thanks. [[User:Neo|Neo]] |
| :Basically, I'd set up a "table row" template where you'd type the color, colspan and content of the fields.
| |
| :It may look like taking the "editability" of the images to the absurd, though | |
| ::Then again, they're not really images : there's nothing there but colors and text... | |
|
| |
|
| ;Content
| | ==Homing Weapons?== |
| :You told me to "be patient". And fancyfying headers and tables is all very nice.
| | Hi, Ssg. I was looking over the weapons class in the Oni binaries, and I can't find where it records that certain projectiles, like the Scram cannon's, are homing. Isn't there a bit for that? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:57, 28 February 2008 (CET) |
| ::(BTW, we didn't mention [[Template:OBD TXT]] and [[Template:OBD TXT dec]])
| | :Homing is a property of the projectile, not of the weapon class. You want to look at [[OBD:BINA/PAR3]]. |
| :::(they're a bit specific to Oni Stuff, so maybe we should call them something else) | | ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 23:14, 28 February 2008 (CET) |
| :But I'd still appreciate if crucial files like [[OBD:AGQG|AGQG]] were kept in sync with Oni Stuff...
| | :Oh... Sorry, Iritscen, didn't see your question. |
| ::I have a few pending contributions, but they'd have to do with generic stuff like [[OBD:IDXA|IDXA]]. | | :Thanks for the answer, geyser. :-) |
| :I do understand that you words about html2wiki may reflect that kind of synchronization.
| | ::[[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 23:04, 4 March 2008 (CET) |
| ::So sorry if I sound like I'm rushing you again, but content sorta prevails for me. ^^
| | Yes, thank you. I have a neat weapon-modding idea I'd like to try. This would be my first modding attempt (we'll see if it works, I don't want to promise much, and it's a simple idea anyway). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:32, 5 March 2008 (CET) |
| [[User:Geyser|geyser]] 18:49, 15 November 2006 (CET) | |
|
| |
|
| :Thanks for keeping it short. :p
| | [[Category:Userspace]] |
| ::ssg
| |
| :Thank ''you'' for cooperating
| |
| :(e.g., for taking the time to reply)
| |
| :I try to keep things organized, hope you like it.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :It's best if all talk page comments are signed,
| |
| :in case someone else wonders what's going on...
| |
| :... and "who's who"
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Bold-faced lines are best achieved with the "definition" markup (leading ";")
| |
| ;like this
| |
| :(the only limitation is that you can't use ":" normally)
| |
| :(and you have to be careful when indenting, too)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :I'd also recommend the use of hlines to break up not-too-related content
| |
| :(e.g., on the ABNA page, what was wrong with the hlines before the footer?)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :I also don't like "Translation" and "Meaning" at all [...]
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :You can change it if you want. Only one template to alter.
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :I will, thank you. ^^ But since the world's in motion...
| |
| :(I mean, templates will be split, renamed, etc...
| |
| ::Any column names will do for now)
| |
| :(even "shpadoinkle" or "kalamazoo") (sorry ^^ )
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :As for the "Bytes", I think I'd replace it with a type when applicable
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :Well, the type is stored indirectly in the "translation" column. So I'd prefer "bytes".
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :Illustrative examples are OK (I wouldn't say your examples are always very illustrative)
| |
| :But ''I'' would prefer to provide the actual information in a way that isn't tied to the example used
| |
| :(same as in a struct def, ideally)
| |
| :So "type" for me, definitely. The names "short", "long", "float", "char" ring an immediate bell,
| |
| :whereas looking at the "bytes" column, then at the "translation", then back...
| |
| :(I'm willing to give in to Delphi folks and capitalize those types : Short, Char, etc)
| |
| :(Also, I don't mind about String[X] rather than char[X] for strings of size X)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :As for Oni's internal types : I'd "define" extra types for file-ids and raw-addresses.
| |
| :Same as the OUP types and extensions. We've talked about that with Alloc, basically we need :
| |
| :*1 type for a DAT's ID, and another one for its level-ID
| |
| :*98 more types for DAT-links (ignoring the 16 defunct filetypes)
| |
| :*21 more types for RAW/SEP-links
| |
| ::(1 for BINA, AKVA, OSBD, SNDD SUBT and TXMP; 2 for AGDB; 13 for TRAM)
| |
| :Tell me about any other types that come to your mind : we should "define" them too.
| |
| ::(yes, I think we ''really'' need that, otherwise the info will be incomplete)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :I think the "long-with-high-bit" occurring, e.g., in the [[OBD:IDXA|IDXA]],
| |
| ::is best viewed as two shorts... "Bitsets" are best viewed as chars.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :If the table row is a template (cf. "good idea" below),
| |
| :the name of a type could be a hyperlink to its "definition"
| |
| ::(common page + anchor in that page).
| |
| :It's quite easy to set up, really.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :I think a good compromise would be to split the "OBD File Table" in two
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :Yes, that's a good idea. I'd suggest to take
| |
| <nowiki>{| WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-width:1px; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;"</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|- ALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"</nowiki>
| |
| :as a basic "prettytable"-like template. Maybe we should call the template "wikitable" or something like that.
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :You misunderstood me as for the splitting.
| |
| :I meant to have nothing but that first line in the basic template : no header row.
| |
| :Some of your flags seem redundant to me, but I might be wrong. More, later.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Actually, there are lots of table templates on Wikipedia and elsewhere.
| |
| :Not that we should pick from them (yours is fine), but of course we can ^^
| |
| :Since it's a very plain-looking table, I'd call the template {{Table}}. Or {{TableHeader}}
| |
| ::("...Header" to reflect that it's not a full set of table tags, just the opening)
| |
| :I'd call it {{GrayTable}}... if we weren't so likely to change the wiki's bg color... :P
| |
| :And I'd have it look like this (with flexibility in mind) :
| |
| <nowiki>{|BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;" WIDTH={{{1|100%}}} ALIGN={{{2|center}}}</nowiki>
| |
| :Tell me what you think.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :Choose a ''good'' name. (Please don't use words like "fancy". It confuses more than it explains.)
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the "fancification" was a joke.
| |
| :Not a ''good'' one, maybe, but a joke nonetheless ^^
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :"Fancy" is ''not'' confusing, though.
| |
| :I think it unambiguously and accurately reflects the spirit of your endeavour :
| |
| ::custom in a nice-looking way, somewhat stylish. No offence meant, of course.
| |
| :We'll choose a ''good'' name. Heck, I'll let ''you'' choose it. Be my guest.
| |
| :(I can always rename the template around as long as it's not widely used :P )
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :The
| |
| <nowiki>! WIDTH=5% | Start || WIDTH=5% | Bytes || WIDTH=10% | Hex || WIDTH=10% | Translation || WIDTH=70% | Meaning</nowiki>
| |
| :I'd put in a template called f.e. "OBD_Table_Title_Row".
| |
| :(Same here. Choose a ''good'' name.)
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :I'd make it :
| |
| <nowiki>|- BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>! WIDTH=5% | Offset || WIDTH=5% | Type || WIDTH=10% | Raw Hex || WIDTH=10% | Value || WIDTH=70% | Description</nowiki>
| |
| :And I'll let you choose the name, again
| |
| :({{OBD Table Header}} is fine by me)
| |
| :(maybe a bit confusing if we use "...Header" for the basic one)
| |
| :(yup, the basic one should be just {{Table}}, definitely)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :On second thought, those wide tables will only be ''the most common'' OBD tables.
| |
| ::but by no means the only ones used to document Oni's binary data.
| |
| :Dunno what objective would suit them. We want something short enough to type.
| |
| :Since these tables will converge with OUP's Struct Defs eventually,
| |
| ::(e.g., the info in the "Meaning" column should be as light as in a struct def)
| |
| :maybe either {{OBD Struct Header}} or {{OBD Struct Def Header}} is best.
| |
| :Or {{OBDstructHeader}}
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 12:52, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Oh, and then of course we'd have another template called, say, {{OBD Struct Row}}
| |
| ::(or {{OBDstructRow}})
| |
| :::that would go like this :
| |
| <nowiki>|- ALIGN=center</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|{{{1|Offset?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|[[OBD:Data#{{{2|Data types}}}|{{{2|Type?}}}]]</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|BGCOLOR="#{{{3|F9F9F9}}}" style="white-space:nowrap"|{{{4|Raw hex?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|style="white-space:nowrap"|{{{5|Value?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|ALIGN=left|{{{6|Description?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| :Another one for strings, say, {{OBD Struct Row 2}} or {{OBDstructRow2}} :
| |
| <nowiki>|- ALIGN=center</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|{{{1|Offset?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|[[OBD:Data#{{{2|Data types}}}|{{{2|Type?}}}]]</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|BGCOLOR="#{{{3|F9F9F9}}}" COLSPAN=2 style="white-space:nowrap"|{{{4|String?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|ALIGN=left|{{{5|Description?}}}</nowiki>
| |
| :Finally, an extra one for the "Below follows" thing, say, {{OBD Struct Row 0}} or {{OBDstructRow0}}:
| |
| <nowiki>|- ALIGN=center BGCOLOR="#000000"</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>|COLSPAN=5|<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR="#FFFFFF">{{{1|Text?}}}<FONT></nowiki>
| |
| :And that would be enough to get us started.
| |
| :Tell me if I forgot anything.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 12:52, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :[...] which is a semantic pleonasm BTW
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :But if I write "Below follows the second package" (because, f.e. the pic shows the second package),
| |
| :instead of "Below follows the first package", and it is the first package in the table,
| |
| :it wouldn't a semantic pleonasm any longer, right?
| |
| :(Unbelievable that you still know so much about that stuff.
| |
| :I remember that I heard something about that at school years ago.
| |
| :But I forgot all.)
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :I actively remember all the time ^^.
| |
| :Nice try, but both your examples up there are equally pleonastic (redundant).
| |
| :Simply because of "Below follows". Those two words are redundant of each other.
| |
| :(I formulated that line a bit differently on a few pages, most recently on [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]])
| |
| :(It's really no big deal, but when one sees it often... Hm. Hehe. Just delete all this... ^^)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :And that's exactly my problem : no one will ever want to thumbnail them
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :I don't follow. What's exactly your problem?
| |
| :If you upload an image with 300x150, Wiki shows it with 300x150.
| |
| :Why do you care about so much, that "no one will ever want to thumbnail them".
| |
| :Sorry, but I don't get it.
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :Auto-thumbnailing to any size you specify in an article,
| |
| ::along with auto-hyperlinking to the "image page"
| |
| :::(possibly holding informative content or a redirect),
| |
| ::::is ''the'' main advantage of wiki-based media content.
| |
| :Your images make no use of that, which is why the point for having them wiki-based is weak.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Another reason why, e.g., Wikipedia has all its media wiki-based
| |
| :is that it there's no user directories stored on the server alongside the wiki
| |
| :(something we ''do'' have on oni2.net, and "always will" : both run in parallel)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Some wikis prevent the display of external images. We do not, and the main reason
| |
| :is the ability, e.g., for me to link to Oni's [[Music/CD|OST MP3]] or [[Oni2:Influences/StateOfEmergency/Pictures|SoE screenshots]]
| |
| :(all that resides on oni2.net, and takes no more time to load than if it was wiki-based, maybe less)
| |
| :That also makes the point for uploading "plain-transcluded" images rather weak.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :The inability to rename the images
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :You can rename them. (Why the heck do you want to rename them?)
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :You can ''not'' rename ("move") media files. I'm sorry, but it's true.
| |
| :You can only delete them and/or upload them with a new name.
| |
| :I want to be able to rename them because the current names are
| |
| ::a (not too pretty) relict of your own site's nomenclature.
| |
| :I want to be able to rename them because that's part of the full-control editing you're aiming at.
| |
| :It's wrong to massively edit (and ultimately split/merge) a file and be tied by the name someone else gave it, long ago.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :lousy short-term flexibility
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :As I said: Split it and override the existing one. I can't see a problem here.
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :See above : that's not what I call overwhelming editorial freedom.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :Make it PNG rather than GIF
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :Yes, Wiki says: use png instead of gif, because gif supports only 256 colours.
| |
| :But: None of my hex screenshots uses more than 50 different colours.
| |
| :So it would be IMO really pretty stupid to change the file format without any need.
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :There are a few other reasons to use PNG instead of GIF
| |
| :#It's open, not proprietary, but perhaps that's what we care about the least
| |
| :#It allows for advanced transparence effects (OK, that doesn't apply here either)
| |
| :#It compresses the images to much smaller sizes, despite the higher color depth.
| |
| :A high compression rate means more processor stress on the client side (peanuts)
| |
| :But the downloaded size is much smaller, which is especially felt by the server.
| |
| :How much is "much"? Well, it turns out that the PNG are about 70% smaller
| |
| :For instance, abna_a.gif takes up 5646 bytes.
| |
| :Converting it to PNG takes the size down to 1710 bytes.
| |
| :That's not much for a single download, of course.
| |
| :But it always helps to ease the load on the server, right?
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :Capitalize the names according to the names of the actual files
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :Er... why should I do that? Are you trying to use a steamroller to crack a nut?
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :Dunno. We use properly capitalized extensions everywhere : page names, OUP, plain text...
| |
| :The only exception is your site, and while I can't make you rename your own images, ^^
| |
| :I'd rather the ones you upload didn't inherit the "inconsistent" lowercase names.
| |
| :I ''so'' wish you'd have asked before uploading all of them... If you only knew... ^^
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :Whatever your "OBD Image" template is supposed to do, it's probably a bad idea.
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :Well, this has something to do with style.
| |
| :If f.e. someone changes the wiki background colour, so that it isn't longer white, you will have
| |
| :*a centered header,
| |
| :*an image with white background but with a max. width of 690px on the left,
| |
| :*and a table with a width of 100 percent.
| |
| :That sucks. It doesn't look good.
| |
| :But if you put the white-backgrounded image in a white-backgrounded table with a width of 100 percent,
| |
| :it will look much better. (Try it if you don't believe me.)
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :Personally and generally, I don't give a crap about the nice looks as long as the content is there.
| |
| :And, as I've said, I'm colorblind, so I feel like leaving the color issues entirely to your expertise.
| |
| :So I guess we could say I ''do'' "believe" you in those matters (I mean web design in general).
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :However, I've never seen a MediaWiki build with a non-white background : that'd be 100% vain.
| |
| :''That'' is what would suck. Oni or no Oni, I don't think I could stand running a ''vain'' wiki.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :How you systematically stretch your tables to the page's width is not ''exactly'' fine by me, either.
| |
| :In many cases, stretching the content over a large screen looks like a waste of space
| |
| :(and I feel like left-aligning or centering them without stretching them, instead)
| |
| :(if not for the main OBD tables, at least the auxiliary ones are often quite small)
| |
| :(see [[OBD:BINA|BINA]])
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :It's nothing I can't live with, of course. Most of the time page-wide tables look nice.
| |
| :And I always have the possibility to customize an O table'sembed a "100%" table into a normal table.
| |
| :(I ''insist'' on that right : see my suggestion for the wiki-wide table template)
| |
| :(custom width and custom alignment : you ''have'' to allow for those)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Oh, and as for the centered header : it doesn't have to be centered.
| |
| :The alignment is one of the template's parameters, by design.
| |
| :First, the longer files (e.g., [[OBD:ONCC|ONCC]]) have a table of contents.
| |
| ::(with the fields split up, even not too thematically, it allows one to
| |
| :::jump from the top of the page to the region one is interested in).
| |
| :The header is supposed to fit alongside the TOC on a reasonably large monitors (see, e.g., [[OBD:CRSA|CRSA]])
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Second, even when there is no TOC, one can provide a few initial "words of wisdom".
| |
| :Something that introduces the reader to the general purpose of the file
| |
| ::and outlines its layout in the most synthetic way (see, e.g., [[OBD:ONVL|ONVL]])
| |
| :::or [[OBD:ONCV|ONCV]], or even [[OBD:ONWC|ONWC]], although it certainly need reorganizing.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :Info on links, too : what kind of resources this file links to, as well as "what links here".
| |
| :All that infromation is IMO best presented before the detailed breakdown of the structure.
| |
| :Such a summary (very Wikipedia-like) would very well fit alongside the "header".
| |
| :Whenever there is a TOC, I'd still have the ''TOC'' alongside the header, though.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :I'd like to use the image template for the hex images (even if we don't need it now).
| |
| ::ssg
| |
| :I have a few more considerations for you, and an alternative. Check out [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]].
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :We should have a zip file with all the current struct defs somewhere.
| |
| ::ssg
| |
| :On svn.oni2.net, of course. In the same folder as the individual struct defs will be.
| |
| :We'll have to redefine all of them (see above, talk to Alloc) in the "near" future...
| |
| :They have to allow for unambiguous browsing of the file-system by OUP (e.g., patching).
| |
| :Starting from a ''named'' file (same name on all versions), the patcher should use
| |
| ::''nothing but version-independent information'' to browse the level-files.
| |
| :Then, and only then, can we create a "legal" patcher that works the same on every version
| |
| ::and doesn't allow one to download all of Oni's resources for free.
| |
| :(I already stressed the other advantage of that system : ''modularity'')
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :Actually, it may sound crazy, but I feel like taking [[Test#OBD_file_types|THIS]] experiment a bit further.
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :Well, if you have enough time, you can do that. Have fun. :p
| |
| ::;ssg
| |
| :I did it. It works. Check it out [[Test#HexRow|HERE]] or on [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]].
| |
| :I didn't implement the black/gray outlines but I don't think we really need them.
| |
| :The markup takes up half as much space as the PNG (and 84% less than a GIF, fa fa fa! )
| |
| :The rendered HTML takes up more space than a PNG, but it's still less than half as big as a GIF.
| |
| :The editability is unrivaled.
| |
| :Doing those by hand takes a reasonable time, I'd say, because of the handy layout.
| |
| :For larger chunks, though, scripts may be in order.
| |
| :Since it's fully editable, you can omit the irrelevant stuff
| |
| ::(e.g., senseless ASCII, confirmed garbage...)
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| ----
| |
| :But I'd still appreciate if crucial files like [[OBD:AGQG|AGQG]] were kept in sync with Oni Stuff...
| |
| ::;geyser
| |
| :I'm not sure I understand correctly what you want, but if we agree on the design,
| |
| :I'll adapt the html2wiki translator to that and update all file pages with the new code.
| |
| ::[[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 12:57, 17 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| :You got it right. I'm looking forward to that.
| |
| ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
| |
| -->
| |
| To geyser:
| |
| :
| |
| After reading your little roman :p , I'd suggest the following things:
| |
| :
| |
| '''Templates'''
| |
| :
| |
| Template:Table
| |
| :
| |
| <nowiki>{|BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;" WIDTH={{{width|100%}}} ALIGN={{{align|center}}}</nowiki>
| |
| :
| |
| (Why do we need the "|center", when the basic width is 100%?)
| |
| :
| |
| Template:OBD_Table_Header
| |
| :
| |
| <nowiki>|- BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"</nowiki>
| |
| <nowiki>! WIDTH=5% | Offset || WIDTH=5% | Type || WIDTH=10% | Raw Hex || WIDTH=10% | Value || WIDTH=70% | Description</nowiki>
| |
| :
| |
| No other table templates. It's not the idea of templates to replace everything. When I look to the wiki code, I want read the real code and not a buch of links to a hundred of templates.
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| '''Type as a row'''
| |
| :
| |
| Okay. "Bytes" will be replaced.
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| '''hlines'''
| |
| :
| |
| Sorry. My mistake. They will be there.
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| '''Images'''
| |
| :
| |
| ''wiki-based''
| |
| :
| |
| Let me quote "Sledge Hammer" to comment your "problem(s)": "That's a pish pot of nonsense." :p <== I hope you see the smiley. So take it easy, even if it sounds a bit rough. :-)
| |
| :
| |
| ''png''
| |
| :
| |
| Wow, I didn't know that the file size of the png's are so much smaller.
| |
| Nevertheless, I won't change the file format. I can't see any ''real need'' for that.
| |
| :
| |
| ''capitalize''
| |
| :
| |
| I do never capitalize file names.
| |
| :
| |
| ''template''
| |
| :
| |
| <quote>However, I've never seen a MediaWiki build with a non-white background...</quote>
| |
| :
| |
| But I. It was darkblue and didn't look bad.
| |
| :
| |
| However, I'll keep the template, beause:
| |
| *You can delete the table easily, if you don't like it.
| |
| *If (!) we host the images not any longer at wiki, we can add the new url easily to the template
| |
| :
| |
| Besides, if you are really going to replace the images with a table, you don't have to care about the image format (gif or png), where they should be hosted and the presence of image templates.
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| '''pleonasm'''
| |
| :
| |
| "below follows" is a semantic pleonasm? Why? I don't get it. *tilt*
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| '''BSP'''
| |
| :
| |
| BSP = Binary Space Partition. Use google if you want to know more about it.
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| '''Sytle'''
| |
| :
| |
| <quote>Personally and generally, I don't give a crap about the nice looks...</quote>
| |
| :
| |
| I know, I know. It can't be overlooked. :p
| |
| :
| |
| ----
| |
| :
| |
| That's it. Can I start now? Yes or yes? :p
| |
| :
| |
| <p align=right>[[User:80.78.168.2|80.78.168.2]] 12:42, 21 November 2006 (CET)
| |
before: 