Talk:Mod Tool: Difference between revisions

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(dev notes -- ps: for now I don't longer work on the addon)
 
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==Old dev notes==
==Success with Wine?==
Just keeping the notes here for the unlikely case that I will continue work on that OniTool addon someday again.
<s>Hmm, seems like the notes below belong on a page related to Paradox's addon, don't they? ^_^</s>  Anyway, I want to ask if anyone has gotten Mod Tool to run in Wine. It pretty much crashes when I attempt to do anything, using Wine 1.8.6 on Mac, which seems to be the latest version available. So I'm wondering if anyone else has tried Wine, perhaps in Linux. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 18:14, 29 December 2016 (CET)


:I think I put the notes here because back then the addon page didn't existed. Will move it. And "nope" about Wine. --[[User:Paradox-01|paradox-01]] ([[User talk:Paradox-01|talk]]) 22:56, 29 December 2016 (CET)


===New door animations===
::Oh well, I thought I'd ask anyway. I wanted to see what you've done so far with your addon, it sounds pretty comprehensive. Maybe someone else will see my question someday and have an answer. For whatever reason, Wine's AppDB barely has an entry for XSI at all (and what's there is unhelpful); I would have thought more people were interested in running it on other systems since it's free. Well, I recently got into using VirtualBox (since I don't currently own a copy of Parallels or Fusion), and it works well for ordinary Windows installs, so I can probably use that to run XSI. And VBox is probably better integrated with the macOS than Wine is anyway. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 23:39, 29 December 2016 (CET)
Final door animation depends on:
* BINACJBODOOR position and rotation
* OBAN positions and rotations
* ZAxisUp (Does this flag do something else?)


I'm sorry. When you look closely at the checklist, there's one point named "addon" which has not even a single "x" (for done). All other points are GUI-related (separate program). -- You know I have worked on these things sporadically over a long time which makes it hard to remember pitfalls/drawbacks of certain code. And most are separate. I can't simply throw everything together. It will takes some time before I can show you something that is worth testing. I wished I could be faster but I'm not. --[[User:Paradox-01|paradox-01]] ([[User talk:Paradox-01|talk]]) 01:41, 30 December 2016 (CET)


'''Theory of the (Oni to ModTool) import from scratch:'''
:Well, on the second try I got Mod Tool installed in VirtualBox on a Win 7 guest. The addon installed too, though I crashed pretty quickly once I tried to render anything. Maybe because VBox doesn't support 3D acceleration; Mod Tool even prints a warning at the bottom that DX10 is not available. By the way, is it okay to install updates to Mod Tool? I installed the 7.5 version that was linked to from the wiki, and didn't think there were any free updates past that point. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:10, 30 December 2016 (CET)


* import BINACJBODOOR
IIRC, that one update is another addon but doesn't really add something substantial to our means. I think they added support for other games, but of course not Oni.
* get door classes
* extract M3GM from DOOR, etc.


* import M3GM
Even if the render doesn't crash. It often fails to save the image. On PC you often get an black image with the "hardware" rendering. The "software" rendering gives you images with an water sign and it is ugly as it has no anti-alising.
* move center to lower bounding box Z
* move object to Z = 0
* import OBAN
* apply rotations and positions to object


* create null object
For that reasons I hoped that Blender could render objects and characters but i didn't figured out how to position the camera so that the character fills the screen automatically. Also no idea on how the apply the actual pose. Here is a first script a made for Blender to render stuff as a background process. [[Mod_Tool#Rendering]] --[[User:Paradox-01|paradox-01]] ([[User talk:Paradox-01|talk]]) 20:44, 30 December 2016 (CET)
* make null a parent of door object
* rotate null in X = -90 (to make Z axis pointing up)
* add BINACJBODOOR rotation and position to null object


The current version of onisplit (v0.9.68.0) imports the doors from AKEV without animations.
:Okay, thanks for the response. Blender does have some nice aspects to it, including the lighting abilities that geyser put to use in his [[Lightmapping levels|lightmapping]] experiment. It's also cross-platform and actively under development, unlike Mod Tool.  But that interface... well, maybe they've improved it since I last used it, or maybe there's some kind of extension to modify it. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 22:34, 30 December 2016 (CET)


Those door have there centers at the lower bounding box Z, got corrected from their ZAxisUp, and have (BINACJBODOOR) rotation and position.
[[Category:Modding tutorials]][[Category:Windows-only modding tools]]
 
Writing an own combined import would not only take more time, also it wouldn't be so fast and efficient. So, I will go with the existing import but then do some changes on the doors (appling null object, custom properties, etc.)
 
The door objects can be identified by their naming. Each name contains the BINACJBODOOR ID, e.g. <DOOR Id="7294">.
 
There could be a loop scanning all objects for those numbers.
 
 
===Hierarchy builder for characters===
Based on old knowledge. See [[Mod_Tool#exchange_of_meshes_in_hierarchies|HERE]] for an easy manual way to change the meshes in hierarchies.
 
 
 
'''(old notes in the following)'''
 
{| border=0 cellpadding=0 style="float: right;"
| hierarchy breaker beta<br>[http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn207/unknownfuture/Oni_Galore_Images/3D_modding/hierarchy_breaker_beta.png http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn207/unknownfuture/Oni_Galore_Images/3D_modding/hierarchy_breaker_beta_tn.png]
|}
 
(Automatic rigging.) Maybe null objects could stand for the centers of body parts. Then one click and the real centers gets positioned. The [[User:Paradox-01/for_WIP_pages#Mod_Tool:_putting_a_character_together_while_preserving_body_part_positions|rotations are known]] and the names would lead to the correct hierarchy.
 
In order to make edits there is also a need of destroying the hierarchy again while preserving the rotation and position of the meshes.
 
 
code pieces
 
 
hierarchy breaker
* [https://dl.dropbox.com/u/139715/OniGalore/ModToolScript/hierarchy_breaker_beta.txt hierarchy_breaker_beta.txt] (works only with strict correct names)
 
 
hierarchy builder
* [https://dl.dropbox.com/u/139715/OniGalore/ModToolScript/delete_keyframes.txt delete_keyframes.txt] (deletes keys, saves and reloads character)
* [...]
 
 
'''Keyframe affects hierarchy building'''
 
situation: "cube" and "cube1" were created
 
* case 1:
** apply 45° y rotation to cube
** make cube1 a child of cube
** cube1 will not inherit the 45°
 
* case 2:
** apply 45° y rotation to cube
** make rotation keyframe for cube1
** make cube1 a child of cube
** cube1 inherit the 45°
 
* case 3:
** apply 45° y rotation to cube
** make rotation keyframe for cube1
** remove that keyframe again
** make cube1 a child of cube
** cube1 inherit the 45°
 
* case 4:
** apply 45° y rotation to cube
** make rotation keyframe for cube1
** remove that keyframe again
** save both cube to a dae file
** make new scene and load dae
** make cube1 a child of cube
** cube1 will not inherit the 45°
 
Case 1 might be a bug (case 4 is a variant of it) but it simplify the hierarchy creation.
 
 
While doing those test you can observe red letters next to the meshes in the Schematic window.
: A means the presence of keyframes. Removing the keyframe doesn't remove the A. Object must be saved and reloaded.
: D means that mesh center was changed by rotation or translation (center mode) or by clicking Transform > Freeze(...). D can be removed by clicking the normal Freeze button. Yea, whatever...
: C can be seen next to camera objects, present when Camera_Interest is horizontal attached to it.

Latest revision as of 01:13, 4 May 2022

Success with Wine?

Hmm, seems like the notes below belong on a page related to Paradox's addon, don't they? ^_^ Anyway, I want to ask if anyone has gotten Mod Tool to run in Wine. It pretty much crashes when I attempt to do anything, using Wine 1.8.6 on Mac, which seems to be the latest version available. So I'm wondering if anyone else has tried Wine, perhaps in Linux. --Iritscen (talk) 18:14, 29 December 2016 (CET)

I think I put the notes here because back then the addon page didn't existed. Will move it. And "nope" about Wine. --paradox-01 (talk) 22:56, 29 December 2016 (CET)
Oh well, I thought I'd ask anyway. I wanted to see what you've done so far with your addon, it sounds pretty comprehensive. Maybe someone else will see my question someday and have an answer. For whatever reason, Wine's AppDB barely has an entry for XSI at all (and what's there is unhelpful); I would have thought more people were interested in running it on other systems since it's free. Well, I recently got into using VirtualBox (since I don't currently own a copy of Parallels or Fusion), and it works well for ordinary Windows installs, so I can probably use that to run XSI. And VBox is probably better integrated with the macOS than Wine is anyway. --Iritscen (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2016 (CET)

I'm sorry. When you look closely at the checklist, there's one point named "addon" which has not even a single "x" (for done). All other points are GUI-related (separate program). -- You know I have worked on these things sporadically over a long time which makes it hard to remember pitfalls/drawbacks of certain code. And most are separate. I can't simply throw everything together. It will takes some time before I can show you something that is worth testing. I wished I could be faster but I'm not. --paradox-01 (talk) 01:41, 30 December 2016 (CET)

Well, on the second try I got Mod Tool installed in VirtualBox on a Win 7 guest. The addon installed too, though I crashed pretty quickly once I tried to render anything. Maybe because VBox doesn't support 3D acceleration; Mod Tool even prints a warning at the bottom that DX10 is not available. By the way, is it okay to install updates to Mod Tool? I installed the 7.5 version that was linked to from the wiki, and didn't think there were any free updates past that point. --Iritscen (talk) 17:10, 30 December 2016 (CET)

IIRC, that one update is another addon but doesn't really add something substantial to our means. I think they added support for other games, but of course not Oni.

Even if the render doesn't crash. It often fails to save the image. On PC you often get an black image with the "hardware" rendering. The "software" rendering gives you images with an water sign and it is ugly as it has no anti-alising.

For that reasons I hoped that Blender could render objects and characters but i didn't figured out how to position the camera so that the character fills the screen automatically. Also no idea on how the apply the actual pose. Here is a first script a made for Blender to render stuff as a background process. Mod_Tool#Rendering --paradox-01 (talk) 20:44, 30 December 2016 (CET)

Okay, thanks for the response. Blender does have some nice aspects to it, including the lighting abilities that geyser put to use in his lightmapping experiment. It's also cross-platform and actively under development, unlike Mod Tool. But that interface... well, maybe they've improved it since I last used it, or maybe there's some kind of extension to modify it. --Iritscen (talk) 22:34, 30 December 2016 (CET)
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