Review criticisms: Difference between revisions

Review criticisms (view source)

Revision as of 21:46, 9 December 2008

4,197 bytes added , 9 December 2008

I probably messed design, I apoligze

Loser

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 Of course, this feature is only as "underused" as the player underuses it, but the point I took away from this was that it is rarely useful/smart to use stealth. It's too easy to be spotted with the way the enemy walks and turns around from time to time, and the benefit seems pretty negligible to taking someone out stealthily, so I think that's why we don't take the time to sneak around more often. It seems to me that fixing this might require moving some obstacles around in levels, and editing patrol paths, and possibly finding some way to make stealth a rewarding approach that can be used in place of charging in every time. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 04:36, 9 December 2008 (CET)
 :Agreed. One thing at a time though, I can't do all the scripting here. -_- [[User:Gumby|Gumby]]
-::Well, this, like Casey, might be a very long-term goal. We could put it way down on our list of priorities. For now, I'm just fishing for ideas, e.g., How can we make stealth rewarding to the player? One idea is to make stealth kills/KOs not alert any nearby AI, so there's a clear advantage to doing things that way when possible. I might have some more details to add later, possibly to a new page where this can be discussed in more depth. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 16:46, 9 December 2008 (CET)
+::Well, this, like Casey, might be a very long-term goal. We could put it way down on our list of priorities. For now, I'm just fishing for ideas, e.g., How can we make stealth rewarding to the player? One idea is to make stealth kills/KOs not alert any nearby AI, so there's a clear advantage to doing things that way when possible. I might have some more details to add later, possibly to a new page where this can be discussed in more depth. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 16:46, 9 December 2008
+(CET)
+:::I apologize for intervening into this discussion, but I should react on some things.
+::*First, stealth IS rewarding right now. Any back throw (considering my throw modification) deals 50 dmg minimal(Comguy's, 75 maximal(Muro's/Konoko's). Average health of enemies is around 60, so this is sort of stealth kill. After all, how do you think I play this game when I play for story? Yes, by stealth, giving unspotted backbreakers (+ Sledgehammer if enemy survives first assault) whenever it is possible.
+::*Second, I think that kinda opposite of idea presented here, we need AIs to be more aware of surroundings. Remember my demo, where AI2 reacted on dead body, running close to it and examining it? That is what I mean. I have read it in numerous reviews - ''"Another minus points goes for stupid AI, which, apart from being excellent in combat, totally lacks other "intelligence". For example, it happily steps on dead body of his comrade player killed two seconds ago, ignoring him completely."'' Now this would not only look good, but it could be used as tactics how to pass some area unspotted. Kill right guy in right place, hide. Wait till comrades come near him. They will run near him to check. Now quickly use that second path you wanted to use, which was patrolled by those AI's who now check dead body.
+::*Third,yes, moving dead bodies would be nice feature, but engine appearently does not support it.--[[User:Loser|Loser]] 22:46, 9 December 2008 (CET)
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 :I'd like some more things like with Warehouse (have to save an AI who can open the doors, etc...if your AI dies, you are SOL and lose...like in Loser's mod) [[User:Gumby|Gumby]]
 ::Never got to play that (I assume it's still PC-only???). But it's true that "protect" missions are usually thrown into a game to vary the action a bit. Frankly, I've never been a big fan of protect missions, but that's usually because they're so hard. If we adjust the difficulty juuuust right, this might work out well. Although I'm not sure Warehouse is the best place to use this idea; Konoko's got to go in on her own because it's a sensitive, covert mission. But still, having an ally in some level who can do something you can't is one good idea for offering more variety. Let's keep brainstorming for more other ways to make things less "samey". I suggest we think about the airport level -- I agree with the reviewer on its being more intense. ''Why'' is it more intense? What makes it better than some other levels? --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 16:46, 9 December 2008 (CET)
+:My two cents:
+:*1. - Reviewer was probably influenced by demo. Yes, only my opinion. In times of demo Oni was still in hype phase, so when final product came and all reviewers competed who will drag it down more and make it look more dull, there was still some idea that "airport was good".
+:*2. - Then for some exact stuff, Airport is storm type of mission. Almost no locked doors, lots of enemies, lots of gadgets (hypos, forcefields, guns), quite linear. Like a roller coaster. That makes it different from other "door puzzle" levels.
+:*3. - Good old Warehouse mod was exactly extrapolation of reviewers opinion - it need more ideas, I stuffed some of them into Warehouse. Like jumping puzzles, finding key item, usage of other characters.
+:*4. - Another ideas are in my head already, just I lack of time to work on them. Includes:
+:::-stealing mad bomber's bomb and setting it to blast some doors/wall (usage of env_show/env_hide, PAR3 and trigvolumes)
+:::-having a mission where you control a team and you have to accomplish task. There isn't Konoko in team (maybe Casey?). You can switch from one member to another, others are controlled by AI2 and follow you unless you order them to wait or unless they are in some zone where they ought to do some action. For example second level:
+::::First part is played as Konoko, until "this is a wild goose chase" scene. Short after she is captured and held as hostage. Remember that Shinnie is linked to her, so Griffin sees that.
+::::Player then gets into control of squad of three TCTFs. He must manage to get with at least two of them to key positions, so one(or two if all three are alive) are to distract/keep busy enemy forces, and one "goes from other side" and frees Konoko. Being free, Konoko becames "part" of team, altogether they all defeat enemy forces (all TCTFs can die now without it being game over) and want to get out.
+::::If some TCTFs are alive, they secure escape path. Otherwise it does not matter. Konoko goes for deactivation of deadly brain. Deactivation is done only in two waves of console shutting. Then deadly brain jams consoles which surround him and starts countdown to Xiox explosion (remember - he went nuts).
+::::You have to shut him down by turning off his power supply. That means you have to have some gun (let there be some gun somewhere on ground wich can be reachable when you load this savepoint). You run from Deadly brain room, head into "engines of evil" hall, there you have to shoot some cables to cause blackout. If you try to shoot Deadly brain directly, it does nothing to him.
+::::-maybe more --[[User:Loser|Loser]] 22:46, 9 December 2008 (CET)
 {{pullquote|color=red|inset=5%|There’s some promise shown early on with disabling the Deadly Brain even though it’s a modified jumping puzzle but it’s not found anywhere else. More innovation would have been welcomed.}}
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 <nowiki>*</nowiki>cough* *cough* Movable chairs would be a nice start. Remind me again, someone, why we haven't been able to do that? Is it bad collision detection? --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 16:46, 9 December 2008 (CET)
+Moveable furniture feature is in engine but it is incomplete and bugged, thus useless.