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AE:Bug-fix and feature requests: Difference between revisions

AE Discussion

AE:Bug-fix and feature requests (view source)

Revision as of 15:11, 14 November 2008

5,011 bytes removed ,  14 November 2008
moving some items to Modding brainstorms that are encouraging scope creep, they can be "adopted" and moved back here, but for now I think they belong there
m (→‎Widescreen: whoops, fixing)
(moving some items to Modding brainstorms that are encouraging scope creep, they can be "adopted" and moved back here, but for now I think they belong there)
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This is a place for suggesting fixes for the AE or improvements that the AE can make to original Oni.
This is a place for reporting bugs in the AE and small fixes/improvements that the AE can make to original Oni. For general ideas for modding that don't fit within the current scope of the AE (think larger mods and mods that we probably want to leave as optional, not part of the Core AE), see [[Modding brainstorms|this]] page. If you're unclear on where your idea belongs, hopefully reading each page will give you an idea of what that page's scope is. --'''Iritscen'''
:;Iritscen
 
This ''might'' be a timely initiative, but if we are going to make this work ''at all''...
*please ''sign'' every line, and make sure all the stuff ''stays'' signed after edits
**at least when you "vote" or say something subjective, you ''have'' to sign
*try to be very specific about what you want fixed or added; lazy users suck
*if you have the resources to systematically investigate on the matter, do so
*avoid long, non-factual discussions; if you can't, put them on the talk page
*make sure the list doesn't become overwhelming by lack of tangible follow-up
*[[wikipedia:KISS_principle|KISS]] and remember that not all of us have the time or desire to argue back
AE has ugly-ass [[wikipedia:Scope creep|scope creep]] ATM (probably my fault); let's not make it worse.<br>
Surely we can point out a ton of details that somehow "need our attention"...<br>
But that would be part of the problem rather than part of the solution, I think.
:[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
 


=Improvements on original Oni that AE can make=
=Improvements on original Oni that AE can make=
==Cutscene cleanup==
;Distracting Striker cameo in background
===Unlocking doors===
The very first door-unlocking console in the first room in {{C|1}}: why does it not show the door unlocking? This was confusing for me as a newbie ("What did I just do? Let me wander around and try to notice that a tiny light changed color.") and still doesn't make any sense. I mean, they don't even tell you in training that doors can be unlocked by consoles! All the other doors are scrupulously shown unlocking when you use the appropriate consoles, even when they're like five feet away from you, but yet the very first one isn't shown unlocking. --'''Iritscen
 
:(How typically verbose...) This scene indeed deserves a custom [[OBAN]] and/or a specific door-unlocking sound. However, you shouldn't exaggerate the confusion of the first-timers; clear message if they overlook the console and go straight to the door, only one way out anyway, perfectly explicit door-unlocking soon afterwards... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
 
===Passive enemies===
When Konoko runs out the door at the end of {{C|2}} (and on to {{C|3}} ), there is (at least sometimes) a Striker standing right there as the camera pans by!  The scripting should be deleting all baddies before this cutscene. --'''Iritscen
When Konoko runs out the door at the end of {{C|2}} (and on to {{C|3}} ), there is (at least sometimes) a Striker standing right there as the camera pans by!  The scripting should be deleting all baddies before this cutscene. --'''Iritscen


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:Moving enemies out of Konoko's path is sensible (more generally, the AI often look awkward when "passive" during a cutscene), but it would also make sense for "baddies" (either surviving Strikers or Ninja or BGI) to observe Konoko during that cutscene, from where Konoko can't see them, G-man style. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
:Moving enemies out of Konoko's path is sensible (more generally, the AI often look awkward when "passive" during a cutscene), but it would also make sense for "baddies" (either surviving Strikers or Ninja or BGI) to observe Konoko during that cutscene, from where Konoko can't see them, G-man style. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)


==Smart alarm behaviour==
==Widescreen fixes==
Loser wanted to make the AI attack you even when trying to get to an alert console.  I don't think he made any changes in that regard yet, but I was chasing down a ninja Comguy who wanted to push the alert button, and when I got in his way, he *did* attack me. I think that further increasing the likeliness of the AI to attack you while in run-for-alert-console mode is not necessary, and maybe even a bad idea, since they can now dash as fast as Konoko, and so it's much more exciting/frightening when they run for the console. Staying and fighting would make them less of a threat, really, since after pressing the button they will fight you anyway and then you will also have other problems to deal with too. So I vote for "no change" in this regard. --'''Iritscen
 
:"This is a mistake". The point of Loser's aproach is that AI will interrupt their console-running job only when the player is about to take advantage of them (e.g., tackle them - Konoko still dashes faster than anyone except for Ninjas - or backbreak them at the console). They will then resume running as soon as they've put some distance between them and the player (e.g., by knocking the player down and/or retreating). This should much more consistent than the way it happens with the original AI: if you force a console-running AI to fight back, they typically won't resume the alarm-running job when they have the chance. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
 
::I dislike the current console behavior. You can just backbreak them as they use the console. Not sure what the best fix is though. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 06:12, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
 
==Cinematics==
Why on earth does Oni use fly-ins when the characters are <u>onscreen</u>? Times when it's not okay include the Muro-Barabus cutscene in Ch. 2: they're <u>right</u> there in front of us, but also have their portraits in the corners. Blah. If you say, "Well, this lets us see them better", (a) we don't need to be reminded that Muro doesn't look like his portrait, at least until he's fixed, and (b) the smart way to show us what they look like is to use close camera angles, not just hanging back and showing them from a distance; portraits are superfluous. On the other hand, a time when it's definitely okay: opening cutscene for Ch. 2, when Konoko's teeth-gritting portrait is shown as the ambush begins. See, that's a good use of portraits. --'''Iritscen
 
:See, that's a bad bug-fix and feature request. Subjective/ironic (does (a) even look like an argument?), and awfully unspecific for its game-wide scope. Blah. The current approach may be flawed, but it is systematic: lips don't move, body language is limited, so every line of dialogue is considered a voiceover. The only consistent substitute would mean a full-scale change of design (for example, the fly-ins could be elaborate comic/manga panels contributing to the composition of the scene, rather than sketchy miniatures in a corner). Also, using "close camera angles" on Muro or anyone is a bad idea "until he's fixed": as long as the textures are posterized and there's nothing in terms of facial animation, the best bet IMO is to keep the camera far away from the characters or in their backs, and to complement those shots with fly-ins. Anyway, your request struck me as half-baked.  --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
 
==Widescreen==
Various widescreen fixes are needed. For example when playing in a 16:9 resolution at the start of level 2, the camera is positioned behind a wall, in the Dream Lab level the photos in the opening cutscene can be seen before the animation starts and when playing in a 16:10 or 16:9 resolution in the Compound level, Konoko can be seen on the ground before she lands O_o. --'''Rossy
Various widescreen fixes are needed. For example when playing in a 16:9 resolution at the start of level 2, the camera is positioned behind a wall, in the Dream Lab level the photos in the opening cutscene can be seen before the animation starts and when playing in a 16:10 or 16:9 resolution in the Compound level, Konoko can be seen on the ground before she lands O_o. --'''Rossy


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:Another issue is that KONRIF side rolls use an aiming screen. On one hand, it allows her to keep shooting while in the middle of a roll, which is cool. On the other, the weapon stays upright when aiming and rotates 360° through Konoko's fist, which is uncool (of course, it only shows up in slowmo and/or side view). There is no  solution apart from disabling the aiming screen on KONRIF side rolls. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
:Another issue is that KONRIF side rolls use an aiming screen. On one hand, it allows her to keep shooting while in the middle of a roll, which is cool. On the other, the weapon stays upright when aiming and rotates 360° through Konoko's fist, which is uncool (of course, it only shows up in slowmo and/or side view). There is no  solution apart from disabling the aiming screen on KONRIF side rolls. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)


==Miscellaneous==
=="Stop or I'll still shoot"==
The security guard's lines in the State building are kind of silly. "Stop, or I'll shoot". He shoots no matter what you do...>_> --[[User:Gumby|Gumby]]
The security guard's lines in the State building are kind of silly. "Stop, or I'll shoot". He shoots no matter what you do...>_> --[[User:Gumby|Gumby]]
:Konoko is a "class B threat" wanted dead or alive, who stays defiant in response to the warning, so his "screw this" attitude is understandable... However, it is rather straightforward for a scripter to freeze the action until the player actually "moves a muscle". Another detail is the backup the guard called for; maybe he didn't alert the whole building, but some kind of backup ought to be on its way. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
:Konoko is a "class B threat" wanted dead or alive, who stays defiant in response to the warning, so his "screw this" attitude is understandable... However, it is rather straightforward for a scripter to freeze the action until the player actually "moves a muscle". Another detail is the backup the guard called for; maybe he didn't alert the whole building, but some kind of backup ought to be on its way. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)


 
=Bugs to fix in next version of AE=
----
=Suggestions for next version of AE=
==Dashing AI==
==Dashing AI==
AI dashing hack applies to Konoko; she should be allowed to run again. --'''Iritscen
AI dashing hack applies to Konoko; she should be allowed to run again. --'''Iritscen
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:0) Didn't fistsoflegend suck anyway? 1) I can see there being no such thing as a "final release". 2) Knockdowns ''will'' be optional, that's not an option ^_^  The question is whether they will be fixed. If we can prevent spurious domino knockdowns (I believe we can, but maybe Loser knows better), then there is a chance that fistsoflegend will be redeemed. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
:0) Didn't fistsoflegend suck anyway? 1) I can see there being no such thing as a "final release". 2) Knockdowns ''will'' be optional, that's not an option ^_^  The question is whether they will be fixed. If we can prevent spurious domino knockdowns (I believe we can, but maybe Loser knows better), then there is a chance that fistsoflegend will be redeemed. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)


==Other feature requests==
=Feature requests for AE=
===Modular installation===
==Modular installation==
In the final Edition installation process, we need to separate the harder combat mods from the overall improvement mods and make the harder combat mods optional. You probably already plan on doing this, but I felt I should just verbalize it so it's on record as something that's A Really Good Idea. --'''Iritscen
In the final Edition installation process, we need to separate the harder combat mods from the overall improvement mods and make the harder combat mods optional. You probably already plan on doing this, but I felt I should just verbalize it so it's on record as something that's A Really Good Idea. --'''Iritscen


:The problem is the lack of clarity on just what difference (and/or interplay) there is between "overall improvement mods" and "harder combat mods". It's not always easy to decompose the modded content into modules, all the less so as some resources are affected by unrelated mods. This interference is virtually impossible to resolve in the case of free-for-all modding, but with a centralized packaging it should be feasible (barely). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)
:The problem is the lack of clarity on just what difference (and/or interplay) there is between "overall improvement mods" and "harder combat mods". It's not always easy to decompose the modded content into modules, all the less so as some resources are affected by unrelated mods. This interference is virtually impossible to resolve in the case of free-for-all modding, but with a centralized packaging it should be feasible (barely). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 05:22, 22 September 2008 (CEST)


===[[AE:Glass]]===
==[[AE:Glass]]==
Are the breakable glass (i.e., kicks break glass), damaging glass, and the glass collision (body hitting glass breaks it) mods in the Edition yet? I have glass mods installed separately so I can't tell. I didn't think they were part of the Edition, but I see a PAR3 glass particle is in the Edition files, so I'm not clear on what's been changed. --'''Iritscen
Are the breakable glass (i.e., kicks break glass), damaging glass, and the glass collision (body hitting glass breaks it) mods in the Edition yet? I have glass mods installed separately so I can't tell. I didn't think they were part of the Edition, but I see a PAR3 glass particle is in the Edition files, so I'm not clear on what's been changed. --'''Iritscen


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