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User talk:Neo: Difference between revisions
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::::::*"What crappy shadows?" Any of them, pretty much. But if you need visual aids, let me ask you what the heck is going on [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows1.jpg here], let me point out that many shadows are of [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows2.jpg erratic shadiness and height], and some crates are lacking shadows completely in the back of that last shot. Also, count the things wrong [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows3.jpg here]. Finally, Gumby contributed an example the other day: explain why the shadows move [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows4.jpg towards the light] if they're not crappy. You yourself already acknowledged that the baked-in shadows were not good, so I can't understand your sudden puzzlement, but there ya go. | ::::::*"What crappy shadows?" Any of them, pretty much. But if you need visual aids, let me ask you what the heck is going on [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows1.jpg here], let me point out that many shadows are of [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows2.jpg erratic shadiness and height], and some crates are lacking shadows completely in the back of that last shot. Also, count the things wrong [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows3.jpg here]. Finally, Gumby contributed an example the other day: explain why the shadows move [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Oni-BadShadows4.jpg towards the light] if they're not crappy. You yourself already acknowledged that the baked-in shadows were not good, so I can't understand your sudden puzzlement, but there ya go. | ||
::::::*"As far as I can tell [etc. etc.]". As far as I can tell, you haven't been looking very hard. If you wanted to be lazy you could have just asked me on YIM for evidence, but I guess I have to take up more space on this page to answer the question you posted here: [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Marathon-GoodShadows1.jpg these lights] [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Marathon-GoodShadows2.jpg are dynamic]. Some lights even flicker in and out, with the expected changes in shadowing. And even though this is from the OpenGL-powered port, they looked exactly the same in 1994 when the game came out. Now, it's true that those are dynamic lights, not dynamic shadows, and they are in a hard-edged style not a softened style, but I just wanted to illustrate how much nicer Marathon's interplay of light and darkness is than Oni's. My question was why Oni couldn't do those sorts of calculations dynamically too. Don't jump all over me. | ::::::*"As far as I can tell [etc. etc.]". As far as I can tell, you haven't been looking very hard. If you wanted to be lazy you could have just asked me on YIM for evidence, but I guess I have to take up more space on this page to answer the question you posted here: [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Marathon-GoodShadows1.jpg these lights] [http://iritscen.oni2.net/temp/Marathon-GoodShadows2.jpg are dynamic]. Some lights even flicker in and out, with the expected changes in shadowing. And even though this is from the OpenGL-powered port, they looked exactly the same in 1994 when the game came out. Now, it's true that those are dynamic lights, not dynamic shadows, and they are in a hard-edged style not a softened style, but I just wanted to illustrate how much nicer Marathon's interplay of light and darkness is than Oni's. My question was why Oni couldn't do those sorts of calculations dynamically too. Don't jump all over me. | ||
::::::*Re: How the shadow mapping works. We are saying close to the same thing here. I don't dispute/care how the shadows are calculated from the characters' models, I just think they are generated on-the-fly, not being applied as decals. Decals are fixed images stored in a resource file, whereas these look more like shaded boxes being filled in on a grid using vertices (also you called | ::::::*Re: How the shadow mapping works. We are saying close to the same thing here. I don't dispute/care how the shadows are calculated from the characters' models, I just think they are generated on-the-fly, not being applied as decals. Decals are fixed images stored in a resource file, whereas these look more like shaded boxes being filled in on a grid using vertices (also you called our current shadow spot "dynamic", and it's the opposite, it's static). It would be very non-standard to use static decals for shadow mapping, but whatever. I don't argue Oni would have looked better as it was back then. If we could bring back that technology from within the code (which we probably can't, this is just a hypothetical sentence so don't flip out), then we could probably also increase the grid resolution and make it look nicer; otherwise it is just something I pointed out for the sake of pointing it out. And it's true that the ID didn't have the shadows, that's interesting. But I wouldn't automatically assume it looked crappy just because they didn't show it. Let's go a little easier on the cynicism pedal, now. | ||
::::::--[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:30, 21 October 2008 (CEST) | ::::::--[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:30, 21 October 2008 (CEST) | ||