Oni2:A Storyline/PostSummary2

Part 2/2 of the post summary of the thread "A storyline for Oni 2" from OCF. The first 15 pages are found HERE.

A storyline for Oni 2
(unimportant posts = "--")
(my notes in square brackets)

Post #	Post Link	Poster	Topic(s)	Summary
151	here	guido	Art	Explains that Konoko's smile doesn't mean she is happy to be with Mukade. She could be contemplating the irony, or perhaps it's her Chrysalis that is happy, resonating with Mukade's. Didn't spend much time conceptualizing bike, just wanted a "small assault vehicle". Posts a rough sketch, link is broken now [I suspect this is the pic I linked to in post #142's summary].
152	here	geyser	Story	Thinks firing weapons sideways off that bike is a bad idea, but it would work on the bike he imagines for Mai. As far as fast assault vehicles go, that was what he envisioned for Mr. Big's Humvee. Still doesn't think Mai would trust Mukade. "Teaming up with Mukade would be a living nightmare for Mai" because he would re-awaken bad memories for her. But in theory there's no reason two Daodan hosts couldn't work together; perhaps that's even the "grand design". Points out that, eventually, there is no "Daodan host" anymore, only a new being composed of Daodan cells. But their memories of being human should mean some mental conflict.
153	here	Your_Mom	Story	Perhaps it's a good thing if meeting Mukade re-awakens her memories. Perhaps her view of Mukade changes when she learns something about him (e.g., "Dad?"). Or he forgives her when she didn't think she deserved it, and this touches her heart. We could even have Mukade betray her after earning her trust. Can lead to psychological conflict for Mai. Perhaps her inner conflict leads her to be unable to save Mukade in a "Kerr takes mercury bow shot for Mai" kind of way, which gives us the element of tragedy. Or perhaps she only learns he was her father after he dies. Thinks that Mai and Mukade could work together and put the past behind them if they wanted.
154	here	geyser	Art	Posts pic assembled from various sources to illustrate Konoko's "metabike".
155	here	Your_Mom	Art	Wheels mounted to Mai's feet make sense as a fast way to travel without the bulk of a vehicle. Could wheels fold up or be used as a shield? What are those rods on ninjas' backs for? Perhaps they're plasma swords?
156	here	geyser	Story	Points to Dark Horse's take on the ninja rods, but he doesn't think much of it. [Here's the real answer, per the guy who put the rods there, with a link to the Dark Horse comic's idea.]
157	here	geyser	Story	Mukade talked about becoming something and how Mai should surrender to it. But he speaks of it happening in the future, so either he hasn't made the change himself yet, or he can resist it to some degree. So yes, Mai still needs to act as a human being in order to have a playable game, but there's no "peaceful coexistence" possible for Daodan hosts.
158	here	Seventeen Seconds	Story	Perhaps the ninja rods are "blood-scrubbers that hyper-oxgenate the bloodstream and remove lactic acid so they can run down Konoko." Points out Hardy's statement about Mukade and Mai acting towards each other as "super predators", not as dad and daughter. Mukade shouldn't be brought back because his killing showed Mai crossing an important moral boundary. If he is explored, he shouldn't be made to be Konoko's dad, in order to develop Mukade as his own character and keep separate the question of why Hasegawa abandoned his family. He would be an awkward fit in an Oni 2 story and would tend to hijack the plot towards himself. There are other ways for him to appear in the story without actually being revived. Suggests to guido that they try to illustrate the Oni 2 story he has on paper [this would become the Wasteland Flowers project].
159	here	geyser	Project	Planned to start working on some Oni 2 material by Christmas. "Amnesia is not just a plot trick", it will allow us to give the game a natural-feeling introduction and learning curve. And characters like Mukade from Oni 1 won't be the same as before. We can draw new connections between them.
160	here	guido	Project	Welcomes working with 17sec, but feels that an Oni 2 story belongs to the community and shouldn't be told by just one or two people. So it's valuable to have these discussions on the forum. Also, the story can't be planned from just a top-down direction, or bottom-up, but we need to slowly work at it from all angles.
161	here	guido	Story	Konoko didn't want to see everyone be implanted with Chrysalises, so instead she blew up the ACCs. She knew the danger the world would be in if everyone survived by having Chrysalises implanted. Agrees that amnesia is a good way to build a plot and show Mai's quest for an identity. Perhaps Imago stage is actually something "transient", temporary and unstable. A butterfly does not live as long as its larval form does, and is very delicate. When the Daodan finishes consuming and replacing the host cells, what will satiate it? It may consume itself in the end, but leave behind a "seed", a "regenerated host" which is improved, sans Daodan. Perhaps the Mai that awakes with no memories years after Oni 1 is the regenerated seed of the original Mai. We should strike a balance between the cliche of bringing everyone back and creating a totally new villain with some newly-invented connection to Oni 1.
162	here	geyser	Story	Introduces notion of META, a "technological mega-consortium run by the Syndicate++ state. It makes everything from weapons to vehicles to droids/SLDs/mechas/cyborgs(/Daodans?)". It's essentially the source of all technological innovation in the world. Questions how guido's notion of Konoko's motivation in blowing up the ACCs jives with the outro movie. Konoko had faith in the Daodan, almost blindly, thinking that it could be given to all the people. Perhaps this was additionally due to mental alienation occurring due to her Daodan Chrysalis. Agrees that giving everyone Chrysalises would practically lead to Armageddon, with Mutant Muroes all over the place. Although perhaps that conflict is part of the "grand design", but that kind of climax couldn't happen until about halfway through Oni 3. But his explanation of Konoko's decision is that she wasn't "herself". Having to deal with that realization is what would lead to her trance and amnesia, as it wouldn't be possible to kill oneself as a Daodan host. But his version of the story does have this point in common with guido's, that she "dies" after Oni 1. The will of her human mind to remain human disrupts the Daodan's evolution and they both collapse into inactivity. The story of Oni 2 would be both Konoko regaining her mind, and the Daodan regaining its "mind", its programming to evolve its host. Whichever regains its strength first will win. If both regain strength and come into conflict again, the cycle will repeat (perhaps in Oni 3!). The solution might be learning to communicate with this "other mind". The other characters returning from Oni 1 might be able to help. Muro is an example of what happens when one gives in to the Daodan and loses one's own mind. But because Mai and Mukade are still resisting mentally, they can't achieve Imago. Agrees that we don't want to introduce a totally new villain with no connection to Oni 1's story. Wants to bring back Shinatama, who backed herself up (perhaps only partially) before being physically destroyed. Likes owldreamer's concept of Hikari being a resurrected Shinatama. But Shinatama 2 doesn't necessarily help Mai a lot, because at first she's scared of her, and also she doesn't know all the answers herself, pertaining to the Daodan and Mai's fate. Kerr did not survive Oni 1, but he could have left recordings with valuable information, perhaps anticipating some events in Oni 2 a la Hari Seldon [who predicts the future using mathematics in Asimov's Foundation stories]. Shinatama 2 might discover these recordings and selectively share them with Mai over time. Barabas could return, but in a non-notable role where he's hardly even recognizable -- just something for players of Oni 1 to catch. Repeats his doubts about the Hasegawa story: it was on a CD dropped by Mukade; he did all that research in just months [what is this time estimate based on?]; and years later, at the time of Oni, there still isn't a "pending environmental crisis" [um...]. Thinks that Hasegawa was being tampered with in order to start the project and make such quick advancement (and this tampering may also involve Jamie's death); later on, he must have realized he was being influenced. He eventually implanted a Chrysalis in himself, before or after Muro, either to be able to understand what Muro would face, or to be able to watch over him if he doubted Muro's goodness, or to investigate the Daodan's mission himself. He knew to expect a battle of wills and was able to stay human, perhaps even achieving communication with his Chrysalis. Doesn't accept that Hasegawa and Kerr simply thought of the Daodan as a great cure for polluted air; they must have understood the deeper, darker implications. Perhaps Imagoes do consume themselves and Muro would have died soon after fighting Mai anyway. That would make the ones who resist full Imago, like Mai and Mukade, the strong ones. As long as they hold on to their humanity, they continue to get some of the benefits of the Daodan, but will remain vulnerable, unlike an Imago. That might be the only possibility for stability in a Daodan host. Perhaps the "grand design" behind the Daodan is actually to select these stronger-willed people, in order to face some danger or challenge. Only those "survivors" will be able to communicate with the beings guiding the Daodan; although that might be the subject of Oni 3.
163	here	TNT	Story	"Don't give Shinatama amnesia", will make story too corny if everyone is running around with amnesia. Although she might have kept regular backups of her mind, she still would probably not have a record of anything that happened after her kidnapping or other later events, so that in and of itself can explain her lack of total knowledge. Thinks that bringing Kerr back in recordings is too reminiscent of Dr. Light in Megaman X; limit him to a flashback or diary entries. Wants to stay close to interpretation of Jamie's death as mercy kill, rather than conflicting with the story we were given in Oni 1. Thinks that, if Muro became an Imago because he gave in to the Daodan, then Mai did as well; she jumped into that acid vat; she trusted in the Chrysalis to help her defeat Muro. Perhaps hypoes sedate the human consciousness somewhat, and that's what allows the Daodan to overpower them. Questions the meaning of the word "perfect" in relation to the Imago. Doesn't "perfect" mean being able to adapt to changing situations, not being unable to adapt? So the Imago has no reason to self-destruct just because it finishes adapting to a certain situation; it would remain able to keep adapting. Could first level of Oni 2 be a dream level where Konoko is seeing parts of the events of Oni 1? Might make a good training level.
164	here	geyser	Story	Suggests the message of Oni 2 be: "Our strength lies in our imperfection. So does our inner beauty. Imperfection is key. Imperfection is what provides a dynamic aspect to our existence. Imperfection is our true essence." Interprets Kerr's and Mukade's words to Konoko to mean that she should resist the transformation. The true expression of a weak-willed person's nature is to give in to the Daodan and become an Imago, but those who resist, like Konoko, are the ones who are "beautiful" and "strong" in their imperfection and weakness. Compares falling in love as an act of giving up oneself to Mai's need to hold onto herself; she is always falling in love, but never fallen. Perhaps Mai ends up fighting Hikari because she thinks Hikari's hiding something from her.
165	here	geyser	Story	TNT's point about why Shinatama has amnesia is exactly what he was getting at. And if she remains in digital form, she might be emotionally distant from Mai. And he had the same basic plan for bringing back Kerr, through diary entries and the like. But Mai can still "talk" to Kerr and others from Oni 1, in dream levels. Is okay with leaving Jamie's mercy kill at face value. But Mai is not completely trusting in the Daodan when she dives into the acid vat, and she's definitely not an Imago by the end of Oni. Likes point about hypo allowing Daodan to be more dominant; shows the danger of taking too many hypoes. The Daodan is perfect in that it can adapt to anything, but its mind is still replacing the host's mind and becoming something more like an animal's mind. And anyway, the word "perfect" doesn't have any clear absolute meaning, we have to define it within a certain context ourselves. Better to use the cave as a training level; there will be a nightmare intro before that, but it will work better as a cinematic.
166	here	guido	Story	Suggests that Mai and Mukade will have to learn that the Daodan is not the final answer, and overcome their fears so they don't lose themselves [I'm not totally sure I follow what guido is saying here]. Mai will need to learn to trust her father and/or someone else, and learn from Mukade. Interprets Mai's line "The Chrysalis will change us all" to refer to the changes she and Muro have brought about; the question is whether a new seed can be planted in this soil of chaos. Her "father's work" refers to something like a figurative change in humankind's perspective, not to giving everyone the Daodan [again, I feel like I'm translating a language I don't know here, this is a really difficult post for me]. A failed Imago such as Mai is like someone who refuses to grow up. But a failed Imago will still age, so 20 years is too long. He doesn't see Mai sleeping in some kind of suspended animation. Let's make it more like 7 years. The story could have three phases: Konoko struggling for control over her Chrysalis; then deciding to become an Imago to save the world; in the climax, we are introduced to the Seed, "and new horizons will arise". Likes idea of Meta Industries. They think that technology is the answer to all their problems. "In some sense Metaindustires are repeating the same errors from the past, and someone would have to change it." But he doesn't see Meta tech as being refined and elegant; they are always rushing to move to the next level, so their machines are built hastily. They also need to appear rarely, and be somewhat unstable, maybe dangerous to use, albeit capable of amazing things. Likens to concept of "If I had a Trow..." in Myth.
167	here	geyser	Story	Questions why Meta tech can't be refined and elegant. And what threats is Meta responding to? Perhaps they seem to be doing it for their own reasons, not in response to a known threat. Implies that Mukade is the head inventor. As the devices are the product of an unearthly intelligence, they should be "wrong" somehow, beyond normal human understanding. And the Metabike is something that a normal human would not be agile enough to use, plus you have no body protection as you speed along. "The disturbing thing about it (as it will be for most other Meta-stuff) is that it's simply not meant for human operators." Agrees that Meta tech should be rare, but they can also have multiple variations on the same device, and vary them randomly like Oni does with ONCC body sizes. Doesn't agree with guido's interpretation of the outro monologue, as Konoko still made the choice to blow up the ACCs; did she do that out of fear of the Daodan or out of hope in it? Reiterates point about cause of Mai's amnesia; if she'd known from the start what the Daodan was, the struggle with it wouldn't have been too bad, but she only realized when it was almost too late to retain her faculties. Perhaps she is trapped in her own mind by the Daodan, which would allow for levels like the movie "The Cube". The Daodan is trying to track her down in her own mind, kind of like Agent Smith and Neo in the Matrix. She has to become even fitter mentally in order to continue to resist the Daodan's increasingly smart attacks. With regards to fear, Mai needs to learn to not be afraid of the Daodan, in order to cope with it. She can learn from Mukade, who is more experienced. Together they can walk a path perpendicular to the one the Daodan wants to evolve in, and find a new way. Dislikes idea of Mai deciding to give in to Imago, as this means alienation for the player. How can we even write a story around an alien intelligence? "The whole purpose of the Daodan may be to face strong minds with the threat of disappearing completely, and maintain that threat in order to make the human mind achieve a greater knowledge and control of itself as well as of the Daodan entity, develop at a whole new level (telepathy etc) while retaining its very essence. Ultimately, the human mind gets so strong that its strength and that of the Daodan are perfectly matched, and it's some kind of peaceful coexistence then." Seven years is not long enough to let Griffin be dead without having to specify how he died [Cf. Oni's forked ending], and to let the Cataclysm's effects die down. If it's too soon after the Cataclysm, people will be more likely to simply lynch Konoko. Reiterates idea of Mai joining a Rebellion, which allows for lots of individuals with separate motivations. When it's revealed who Mai is, they each have to take a stand on what to do about her. Similar to Oni 1, Mai would start off as a "clueless pawn" and gradually realize the truth. Shinatama/Hikari may have trouble understanding the new Mai, making their new relationship more complex. Disagrees that the host or the Daodan has to win; "as in the case of war, there is then no victor to speak of. True victory means ceasefire, compromise, cooperation, peace." We can show that the human mind is strong even if the flesh is weak. This can mean an interesting reversal of Oni 1, where Konoko as a host is being invaded by the Daodan; this time she's mentally invading the Daodan that has replaced her cells.
168	here	geyser	Story	The Meta bike's wheels will be easily removeable, but they will slow you down if you want to carry them. You can use them to attack enemies with kicks or jumps. Once they exhaust their limited energy, you can throw them at opponents like with an empty weapon. Reiterates that Mukade will be "king of the world", although he won't go by "Mukade". He may have doubles everywhere, so Mai goes into META to investigate who is really behind things. She and Mukade sense each other, and it begins to bring back memories for her; Mukade begins investigating who she is. Thinks Oni 1's ninjas are robots or SLDs. Rods on their backs may be grenades or some kind of jump boosters. [See post #156 summary for real answer.] Perhaps ninjas are based on Mukade's brain engrams. Mukade's spikes are for defense, maybe electrified. Bottom one retracts so he can sit on a vehicle. Perhaps ninjas self-destruct to keep their secret. Discounts Hardy's explanation of Mai and Mukade as "super predators" [despite the fact that Hardy wrote the story...]. Why doesn't she sense Muro then? Hasegawa doesn't "abandon" his family [responding to post #158], he is abducted by Syndicate. Then "the logical step is not to run away, but to become the true master of the situation." Yes, "killing" Mukade was an important moment in Oni 1, but not in the sense of removing Konoko's innocence (she goes through the whole game killing dudes!), but rather in a more Oedipal, Greek tragedy kind of way. There's still the possibility of redemption and forgiveness by Mukade.
169	here	geyser	Project	Asks 17sec about his "trailer work", and if he's done any animations for his Iron Demon model so geyser can use it in his upcoming Oni 2 work.
170	here	Your_Mom	Gameplay	Wasn't geyser against "primitive weapons" like katanas [which Mai is holding in geyser's Meta bike concept art]? Attacking with swords would mean blood spraying all over the place in a fight. Wonders if ninjas could be aliens, which would also explain their masks and wide-set eyes. The back rods are probably batteries, which power their moves, because there is an electricity effect on their moves, and their back glows during some attacks such as punch_heavy [is this true?]. Suggests that Metabike wheels could be used as shields, or even still used like rollerblades once powerless; they would still save energy over running on foot.
171	here	geyser	Project	He is against primitive weapons, it was just a sample image. Doesn't think bulky masks make sense for ninjas; what's the point of even masking their voices when they're supposed to be silent? They might be experimental SLDs made by Mukade. Maybe the masks are just to create a sense of "group psychology". Likes Your_Mom's idea about backpacks -- if they are cyborgs, then the backpack might even contain a confined Daodan biomass as a booster. Doesn't want to keep Metabike around as a shield or "rollerblades" when it's run out of gas, as it would weigh down Mai, and we want the player to discard the Bike when it's an encumbrance.
172	here	Seventeen Seconds	Project	Tells guido that he has a script that he would love to work with him on for a graphic novel. He has tried to keep community's wishes and developers' intent in mind when writing it, and will post a rough draft when it's ready.
173	here	owldreamer	Project	Posts a new render of Hikari.
174	here	geyser	--	--
175	here	Your_Mom	Project	Obscuring their voices would make sense if the ninjas sometimes appear in public in plainclothes to track someone, or to infiltrate a group. Agrees that ninjas don't have to be aliens, likes SLD idea better. Metabike would not weight down Mai as a shield because the motors would stay attached to her legs or get thrown away; the remaining wheel is much lighter. Agrees that it would be more difficult for Mai to move, and she could be knocked down more easily.
176	here	guido	Project	Asks to see 17sec's story. Posts another broken art link [apparently this one].
177	here	owldreamer	Project	Likes guido's sketch, but what is he doing to Hikari?! Is optimizing Hikari's 3D model.
178	here	Your_Mom	Project	Doesn't think it's Hikari, just an incomplete SLD.
179	here	geyser	Project	Doesn't think it's Hikari either. Points to Strident as something akin to Oni 2. Wants to have Metabike talk in another thread.
180	here	guido	Project	Replying to geyser's post [#167] taking issue with guido's figurative interpretation of Konoko's outro monologue. We don't know how much time has passed, so Konoko could have had the time to reflect on the situation. She sees the results of her action and feels sympathy and guilt. Since a person taking action on a large scale is bound to bring about not just their good intentions, but much damage as well, Mai is stating that the Chrysalises have changed humanity in that Daodan hosts have brought an end to the old world through their aggressiveness. Reiterates his notion that the Daodan inside a host leads to a permanent state of struggle in Mai and Mukade, who don't give in to the "oblivion", and become stronger as a result. This realization could take place during the time of Oni 2. Likens process to a flower becoming a fruit; one thing of beauty is replaced by something else. The Daodan host can't exactly control the process, but they can choose a path to go down. Lastly, the large changes brought about in Oni, and the world problems that have been brought to light, are likely to lead to large countermeasures. The resulting state of emergency, or martial law, could be seen as an analogue to Mai's mental resistance to the changing force of the Daodan.