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: analogy | : analogy | ||
::: they are all artificial and controlled by human - might be hope for 'our' daodan =) | ::: they are all artificial and controlled by human - might be hope for 'our' daodan =) | ||
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;converting the survivors into genetically clean and better humans. (übermensch, eh??? ''geyser'') | |||
:The accent here is on "survivors". Let me try a more or less fitting (spontaneous) analogy. | |||
:Before the Industrial Revolution, farmers used to thrash the corn by hand and then they had to separate the corn from the hulls. | |||
:"Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen." When thrown in the air, the hulls were blown away by the wind. In Oni we have a "Sturm"... | |||
:Now we could imagine what people are going to think. Nobody knows whether he's the corn or the hulls. | |||
:(''logical link???'') So, I think that the Syndicate wouldn't admit the Daodan's true potential - genetically speaking. | |||
:(''logical link???'') And even if the survivors will become "Übermenschen". What is it worth if their minds are altered/corrupted? | |||
::;paradox-01 | |||
:My "übermensch" comment was a little gratuitous; I was ranting on the overused neonazi formalism. | |||
:I didn't object to anything in particular, which is probably why your response is very messy, too. | |||
:[[Daodan]] is most definitely "boundless", and potentially superhuman (unless you ''make up'' bounds). | |||
:In that respect, ''anti-eugenism propaganda'' would make sense, regardless of Nietzsche and Hitler. | |||
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST) | |||
:The Syndicate would indeed have less trouble concealing the Daodan's potential than Hasegawa had. | |||
:After all, the pre-Muro Syndicate actually needed (or thought they needed) a Universal Soldier. | |||
:The people in the aftermath just "don't wanna die", so what ''they'' need is a resilience patch. | |||
:''If'' there is no anti-Daodan propaganda, you ''might'' sell the Daodan as "just" a resilience patch. | |||
:However, the motivation and feasibility of "Daodan to the people" is not obvious. | |||
:And it would take only a few serious opponents to spoil the appeal of the Daodan. | |||
:The alienation issue complements the "sorta eugenism" and makes the Daodan taboo. | |||
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST) | |||
:"Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen" seems to be a German-only analogy: I've never heard of it. | |||
:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's mostly about "natural selection": survival at any cost. | |||
:If the survivors let their "leaders" decide who'll be saved, they're giving their lives away. | |||
:Some of them might play that Survivor game and try their best to be "selected" for salvation. | |||
:Others will draw their strength from the fact that they ''don't need miracles'' to stay alive. | |||
:Your reaction up there is not too structured, but I guess we're talking of the same things. | |||
:Distributing the Daodan in any form will ''complicate'' the issue of survival, ''not'' solve it. | |||
:There's the fear of alienation, and there's the horror of "putting one's soul up for sale". | |||
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST) | |||
;how many [Daodan] do you think they have??? and how can they "distribute" matching clones to total strangers??? | |||
:At least enough for themselves. Let's say half a million (distributed all over the world). If they are willing to distribute, "Beta Daodan" comes to mind again. | |||
:My idea of the Daodan is that it has a "genetic concept" for self-improvement and doesn't depend on "minor" differences in the DNA. (At least it was developed for a human DNA.) | |||
::;paradox-01 | |||
:Hm, "the [[Chrysalis]] is ''the'' hyperevolved clone of ''its'' host body". Generic, really? | |||
:The [[Prime]] Chrysalises were "based on the genetic codes of [Mai] and [Muro]": ''generic''? | |||
:A "generic" Daodan would be nice, but it would be a ''major improvement'' over the Primes. | |||
:But then you'd want that generic thing to be somehow ''inferior'' to the Primes (Beta). Äh? | |||
:All in all, you're saying that the Syndicate has completely instrumentalized the Daodan. | |||
:That's not too likely, given that every symbiote is basically unique and unpredictable. | |||
:It's also a regrettable waste of a perfectly good "autoevolutionary machine" concept. | |||
:The Daodan is nice if it's uncontrollable and a bit mystical (trap; Pandora's box). | |||
:You're ''devaluating'' it if you make it into an instrumental, versatile gadget. IMO. | |||
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST) | |||
:As far as I can tell, the development cycle of (Prime) Chrysalises is as follows. | |||
:Stem cells from the host are exposed to a hyperevolution factor (details unknown). | |||
:This hyperevolved clone is grown over a few days/weeks/months, closely monitored. | |||
:The "Chrysalis" (basically, a small tumor) is then implanted back into the host. | |||
:Then the tumor assimilates and upgrades the genetically compatible host, in-place. | |||
:A possible improvement could be that the clone is grown without human monitoring. | |||
:Such a "Daodan kit" (syringe + "lab on a chip") would still be high-tech, though. | |||
:You could give away a few of those to rich survivors (Muro's supposed ultimatum). | |||
:But it's not something that can be mass-produced and distributed to the public IMO. | |||
::(it also depends a lot on ''what the factor of hyperevolution is''... is it rare?) | |||
:Of course, this is totally off-topic here... We could move that to [[Talk:Daodan]]. | |||
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST) | |||
;The Prime Chrysalises were "based on the genetic codes of [Mai] and [Muro]"<nowiki>:</nowiki> ''generic''? | |||
:Like I said before: My idea is that Hasegawa and Kerr discovered a "genetic concept" for self-improvment [=generic] (and not a factor, so it cannot be rare). But this "proto structure" is nothing without an host. | |||
::Kerr said: "The Chrysalis is the hyper-evolved clone of its host body." | |||
:(Didn't you said the ''same'' by your-self? "The "Chrysalis" (basically, a small tumor) is then implanted back into the host." | |||
:So the Chrysalis is "an upgrade plus the host DNA", IMO. | |||
::[[User:Paradox-01|Paradox-01]] 20:20, 17 October 2007 (CEST) | |||
'''All in all, you're saying that the Syndicate has completely instrumentalized the Daodan.''' | |||
:Well... What the Syndicate want and what they get is not the same. Because of the lack of time the Beta-Chrysalis won't be an option (maybe for very less people like testers but nothing more). But later ... is too late. | |||
::[[User:Paradox-01|Paradox-01]] 20:20, 17 October 2007 (CEST) | |||