Modding brainstorms: Difference between revisions
(→New/revised scenarios: a note of apology on my Ghost script idea (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apology, meaning 1)) |
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==Upgraded content== | ==Upgraded content== | ||
;Textures | |||
High-resolution textures are highly welcome. --'''geyser''' | High-resolution textures are highly welcome. --'''geyser''' | ||
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Another challenge is to add reflectivity channels to all the "metallic" parts (characters, objects, environment). --'''geyser''' | Another challenge is to add reflectivity channels to all the "metallic" parts (characters, objects, environment). --'''geyser''' | ||
;Precipitation | |||
What can we do with precipitation? The only precip. we see in the game is snow in the last level. What a tease! Can/should we add snow to other levels, or can we add new kinds of precip. like rain/sleet? --'''Iritscen''' | What can we do with precipitation? The only precip. we see in the game is snow in the last level. What a tease! Can/should we add snow to other levels, or can we add new kinds of precip. like rain/sleet? --'''Iritscen''' | ||
==Retrograded content== | ==Retrograded content== | ||
It's hard not to notice that some stuff looked better pre-beta. Let's make a list and see if we can turn back time to give Oni back some of the pretty stuff it used to have. Look at the "Pre-beta content" page's screenshots for ideas, there's a heckuvalot of | It's hard not to notice that some stuff looked better pre-beta. Let's make a list and see if we can turn back time to give Oni back some of the pretty stuff it used to have. Look at the "Pre-beta content" page's screenshots for ideas, there's a heckuvalot of thing to remark upon there. | ||
;Models & textures | |||
Muro's face was a lot nicer back when they made the 1999 trailer. --'''geyser''' | Muro's face was a lot nicer back when they made the 1999 trailer. --'''geyser''' | ||
Barely visible in [http://geyser.oni2.net/genesis/screenshots/manplant/ot2_manplant1.jpg this] shot from the trailer is a totally different wall down in the lobby. The lights actually cast light on the wall, as opposed to now, and generally the whole area is just 100 times better- | One can also see animated terminal screens in the trailer. That's currently very doable if you ask me. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
;Lighting | |||
Barely visible in [http://geyser.oni2.net/genesis/screenshots/manplant/ot2_manplant1.jpg this] shot from the trailer is a totally different wall down in the lobby. The lights actually cast light on the wall, as opposed to now, and generally the whole area is just 100 times better-looking than it is now (maybe I will get a comparison shot up here at some point). Can this be done with vertex lighting or some other means that doesn't involve re-writing the engine? --'''Iritscen''' | |||
[[:Image:Genesis_Level3_7.jpg|This]] is a beautiful shot of the early Lab. It shows just how good baked lighting can look. Now, I'm not saying we try to make the Lab look this way, because obviously the Lab is now seen in the daytime, not at night, but it shows what should be possible, particularly at night. --'''Iritscen''' | |||
;Weapons | |||
Some people have noticed that there are some different weapons in some early art and/or screenshots. Want to bring those up here? --'''Iritscen''' | Some people have noticed that there are some different weapons in some early art and/or screenshots. Want to bring those up here? --'''Iritscen''' | ||
One thing I can definitely see was different is the gun used [[:Image:Genesis_Level8_5.jpg|here]]; it's also got a laser sight! --'''Iritscen''' | One thing I can definitely see was different is the gun used [[:Image:Genesis_Level8_5.jpg|here]]; it's also got a laser sight! --'''Iritscen''' | ||
;General | |||
TCTF HQ looked [[:Image:Genesis_Level8_9.jpg|crazy better]] at one time; look at those sweet railings! --'''Iritscen''' by way of '''geyser''' | TCTF HQ looked [[:Image:Genesis_Level8_9.jpg|crazy better]] at one time; look at those sweet railings! --'''Iritscen''' by way of '''geyser''' | ||
| Line 31: | Line 36: | ||
Feast your eyes on the comparisons made here and tell me which looks better, the left or the right: [[Pre-beta_content#Syndicate_Mountain_Compound]]. Should we even be surprised at this point that the left is the pre-beta version? --'''Iritscen''' by way of '''geyser''' | Feast your eyes on the comparisons made here and tell me which looks better, the left or the right: [[Pre-beta_content#Syndicate_Mountain_Compound]]. Should we even be surprised at this point that the left is the pre-beta version? --'''Iritscen''' by way of '''geyser''' | ||
;Mapping | |||
Someone really ambitious could try to recreate the missing levels that were in the pre-beta, if only for testing at the time, because there's some interesting designs there: [[Pre-beta_content#Pre-beta_levels]]. --'''Iritscen''' | Someone really ambitious could try to recreate the missing levels that were in the pre-beta, if only for testing at the time, because there's some interesting designs there: [[Pre-beta_content#Pre-beta_levels]]. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
==New animations== | ==New animations== | ||
;Hi-yah! | |||
Anyone want to try their hands at animations? New ones, not tweaked ones? How about giving Konoko some authentic martial arts moves? (Maybe more on this later.) --'''Iritscen''' | Anyone want to try their hands at animations? New ones, not tweaked ones? How about giving Konoko some authentic martial arts moves? (Maybe more on this later.) --'''Iritscen''' | ||
==New characters== | ==New characters== | ||
Oni characters have a modular design one can take advantage of, by "swapping bones" and authoring all-new textures. | ;Ideas from geyser | ||
Oni characters have a modular design one can take advantage of, by "swapping bones" and authoring all-new textures. One can thus create entities more or less closely related to Oni's original ones, possibly with new storyline roles (Ninja Comguys, BGI executives, cyborg enforcers, WCG troops... you name it: it's almost easy - if you're creative). --'''geyser''' | |||
One can thus create entities more or less closely related to Oni's original ones, possibly with new storyline roles (Ninja Comguys, BGI executives, cyborg enforcers, WCG troops... you name it: it's almost easy - if you're creative). --'''geyser''' | |||
==New/revised scenarios== | ==New/revised scenarios== | ||
Reshuffled or upgraded binaries are worthless without some genuinely inventive level logic. | "Reshuffled or upgraded binaries are worthless without some genuinely inventive level logic." - geyser | ||
;Taking advantage of savepoint slots | |||
For one thing, Oni's levels allow for 10 savepoints each, which allows: | For one thing, Oni's levels allow for 10 savepoints each, which allows: | ||
*either for more savepoints throughout a mission (possibly a lot harder) | *either for more savepoints throughout a mission (possibly a lot harder) | ||
*or savepoints that "revisit" a level (alternate missions and storylines) | *or savepoints that "revisit" a level (alternate missions and storylines) | ||
*or non-mission savepoints like [[Oni Team Arena]] (and other such things) --'''geyser''' | *or non-mission savepoints like [[Oni Team Arena]] (and other such things) --'''geyser''' | ||
;Ghost possession | ;Ghost possession | ||
| Line 68: | Line 73: | ||
riddles for engine patchers: | riddles for engine patchers: | ||
;Dynamic holstering | |||
:Combat situation and owner's weapon based. Customized for each weapon. That means: | :Combat situation and owner's weapon based. Customized for each weapon. That means: | ||
:-new flags in [[CMBT]] file. It has "melee override" so far, used values are 0,1,2 (cancelled),3,4,5. New values should be counterparts of these ( long (6) medium (7), short(8) ), but causing AI to holster/unholster weapon rather than switching melee/weapon stance. | :-new flags in [[CMBT]] file. It has "melee override" so far, used values are 0,1,2 (cancelled),3,4,5. New values should be counterparts of these ( long (6) medium (7), short(8) ), but causing AI to holster/unholster weapon rather than switching melee/weapon stance. | ||
:-new flag in [[ONWC]] file. Currently there are some (appearently) unused flag bits which should be used for this. | :-new flag in [[ONWC]] file. Currently there are some (appearently) unused flag bits which should be used for this. | ||
::-Add new flag. Weapon with this flag causes AI which wields this weapon to unholster when focused enemy is knockdowned, even if it is in range where our AI should have weapon holstered according to [[CMBT]]. Holster again when focused enemy goes into any different animation than knockdowned, blownuped or lying (so AI holsters as enemy tries to getup). | ::-Add new flag. Weapon with this flag causes AI which wields this weapon to unholster when focused enemy is knockdowned, even if it is in range where our AI should have weapon holstered according to [[CMBT]]. Holster again when focused enemy goes into any different animation than knockdowned, blownuped or lying (so AI holsters as enemy tries to getup). -- '''Loser''' | ||
:::I don't understand some of what you propose above, it's very brief and technical; are you saying that you want AI to be able to shoot someone when they've been knocked down? | |||
:::I may not understand what you wrote, but it made me wish, for the first time, that ''I'' could unholster a weapon while knocked down, and shoot the enemy before I got up. That would be an awesome combat technique. Characters already have a small arc of rotation when on the ground, for some reason, so what if they had a gun in their hands and could aim with a vertical arc from the ground to the ceiling, and with a limited horizontal arc similar to what they seem to have already? --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 20:10, 13 November 2008 (CET) | |||
::::Brilliant idea !!! Somebody should check whether it is possible. Sorry, I cannot...x_X | |||
::::About that you don't understand: old wish of mine. Three wishes in fact. | |||
:::*1) You see AI character. Unarmed. You run to fight it (no stealth killing). AI2 hears you when you are still quite far, turns, UNHOLSTERS ITS MERCURY BOW (or any other weapon) and....^_^. | |||
:::*2) You see AI shooting at you with w3_phr. You dodge shots while approaching this enemy, but at certain distance, AI HOLSTERS ITS WEAPON (not holding it in hand) and fights with you. If you try to run away or somehow you cross requred distance, AI unholsters and fires again. | |||
:::*3) You fight with AI from case 2). This AI manages to knockdown you. Now when you enter knockdown animation, AI automaticaly unholsters its weapon and fires at you. You get up as quickly as possible. The moment you start getting up, AI holsters and continues fighting you with MELEE. -- Loser | |||
:::::Ah, I see, that is a good idea. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 20:45, 13 November 2008 (CET) | |||
;Smart jumping | |||
Add this as flag in ONCC. If set, this AI tries systematically (not MELEE randomly) to jump across gaps it can pass in order to reach its enemy. -- '''Loser''' | |||
''' | ==Miscellaneous== | ||
;Patrol paths | |||
It is also essential to set up innovative patrol paths (redeeming stealth). --'''geyser''' | |||
;Sneaking | |||
Ever since I first played Oni and was told by the game that I could not be heard while sneaking, it's bothered me that Konoko's heels still made just as much noise while crouch-walking as they did while walking or running. ''Click-clack, click-clack'', all day every day. That makes no sense! Am I the only person who's annoyed by this? The only question is, how hard is it to fix? -- | Ever since I first played Oni and was told by the game that I could not be heard while sneaking, it's bothered me that Konoko's heels still made just as much noise while crouch-walking as they did while walking or running. ''Click-clack, click-clack'', all day every day. That makes no sense! Am I the only person who's annoyed by this? The only question is, how hard is it to fix? --'''Iritscen''' | ||
Revision as of 20:28, 13 November 2008
Put any ideas for modding here. Some of these might be useful for the Edition, others might become standalone mods. If you know how to implement something, say so, but even if it's just the germ of an idea, we still want to hear it. Important note: if anything here is actually adopted into the Edition (even if it's still in the planning stages), it really belongs on another page that falls under the AE namespace, so please move it over there.
Upgraded content
- Textures
High-resolution textures are highly welcome. --geyser
The environment could do with less dull colors, and the character textures have far too much compression/dithering. --geyser
Another challenge is to add reflectivity channels to all the "metallic" parts (characters, objects, environment). --geyser
- Precipitation
What can we do with precipitation? The only precip. we see in the game is snow in the last level. What a tease! Can/should we add snow to other levels, or can we add new kinds of precip. like rain/sleet? --Iritscen
Retrograded content
It's hard not to notice that some stuff looked better pre-beta. Let's make a list and see if we can turn back time to give Oni back some of the pretty stuff it used to have. Look at the "Pre-beta content" page's screenshots for ideas, there's a heckuvalot of thing to remark upon there.
- Models & textures
Muro's face was a lot nicer back when they made the 1999 trailer. --geyser
One can also see animated terminal screens in the trailer. That's currently very doable if you ask me. --Iritscen
- Lighting
Barely visible in this shot from the trailer is a totally different wall down in the lobby. The lights actually cast light on the wall, as opposed to now, and generally the whole area is just 100 times better-looking than it is now (maybe I will get a comparison shot up here at some point). Can this be done with vertex lighting or some other means that doesn't involve re-writing the engine? --Iritscen
This is a beautiful shot of the early Lab. It shows just how good baked lighting can look. Now, I'm not saying we try to make the Lab look this way, because obviously the Lab is now seen in the daytime, not at night, but it shows what should be possible, particularly at night. --Iritscen
- Weapons
Some people have noticed that there are some different weapons in some early art and/or screenshots. Want to bring those up here? --Iritscen
One thing I can definitely see was different is the gun used here; it's also got a laser sight! --Iritscen
- General
TCTF HQ looked crazy better at one time; look at those sweet railings! --Iritscen by way of geyser
I'd like to see a clear shot of Damocles, because I think the concept art looked a lot better, but I'm not sure. If so, this is quite fixable. --Iritscen
Feast your eyes on the comparisons made here and tell me which looks better, the left or the right: Pre-beta_content#Syndicate_Mountain_Compound. Should we even be surprised at this point that the left is the pre-beta version? --Iritscen by way of geyser
- Mapping
Someone really ambitious could try to recreate the missing levels that were in the pre-beta, if only for testing at the time, because there's some interesting designs there: Pre-beta_content#Pre-beta_levels. --Iritscen
New animations
- Hi-yah!
Anyone want to try their hands at animations? New ones, not tweaked ones? How about giving Konoko some authentic martial arts moves? (Maybe more on this later.) --Iritscen
New characters
- Ideas from geyser
Oni characters have a modular design one can take advantage of, by "swapping bones" and authoring all-new textures. One can thus create entities more or less closely related to Oni's original ones, possibly with new storyline roles (Ninja Comguys, BGI executives, cyborg enforcers, WCG troops... you name it: it's almost easy - if you're creative). --geyser
New/revised scenarios
"Reshuffled or upgraded binaries are worthless without some genuinely inventive level logic." - geyser
- Taking advantage of savepoint slots
For one thing, Oni's levels allow for 10 savepoints each, which allows:
- either for more savepoints throughout a mission (possibly a lot harder)
- or savepoints that "revisit" a level (alternate missions and storylines)
- or non-mission savepoints like Oni Team Arena (and other such things) --geyser
- Ghost possession
A script where Konoko can enter other's bodies and control them, leaving her own behind. This would be part of a new scenario where she has to accomplish some goal, but maybe she can't get into the area, so she leaves her body and takes over the enemy to get them to do her bidding. Picture her current body falling to the ground (we've got good anim.s to pick from for that), and a second Konoko that is ghosted (half-transparent) floats out (like floating ghost Shinatama) and moves through walls as you guide her, and when she touches an enemy, we use BSL to switch control to that character. If we were inventive enough, Konoko's real body could still be in danger while she's "astral projecting", and we could require the player to keep track of her body to make sure no one had discovered it laying there. Imagine running back to her body while in control of an Elite Striker, and beating up some fellow Syndicate dude that was beating on her! Could be a lot of fun if we don't make her body too hard to guard. And I think it all might be doable with scripting.
P.S.: It might sound silly or out of touch with the sci-fi setting of Oni, but this is a side script, it can do anything it wants 8-) Besides, we could always throw in some explanation of a pseudo-science nature, or have it be another dream. Heck, maybe it's an ability she gains from the Daodan in one possible future (at least, in her dreams :-). --Iritscen
AI improvements
- Ninja dodging
I don't know if this was a "manufactured" shot or not, but it's still awesome. Now, Loser has already gotten basic dodging working; what would it take to specifically get ninjas to either "ninja-slide" or jump as a form of dodging fire? Also, that jumping dude is really jumping. How would the game play out if the ninjas actually did have greater leaping ability than Konoko? It would make sense, wouldn't it? Especially if they're androids as some people like to think ;-) --Iritscen
- NOTE: Ninjas actually jump higher than Konoko if they use "jetpack timer" powered jump as well (hold spacebar). According to my observations (only empiric - nothing proven) there is probably bug in AI2 code. AI2 computes distance of far jump as if char used jetpacked jump, yet AI2 for some reason CANNOT do more than tap jump.
- Next, for AI2 "special" dodge - looks like AI2 is somewheat "vector" powered. And by than way, AI2 can only run/walk/creep. Acrobatics are MELEE only. If we had source....you know the rest.:--Loser 19:26, 13 November 2008 (CET) /NOTE
- So it looks like there's two things worth looking into (second one may be too hard, I realize, but this is all hypothetical):
- - Can we get AI2 to do more than a tap jump? (P.S.: Can ninjas actually jump as high as seen in that picture?) --iritscen 20:10, 13 November 2008 (CET)
- - Are we sure that nothing short of engine patching would allow cool dodge moves?
If the AI knows when it's being fired at, is there some way to add to the dodging routines links to the animations for side-rolls/slides and high jumps (for ninjas)?Actually, I thought a little more about what you said, and it seems that what I'm proposing here is impossible to do without actually altering code. --iritscen 20:10, 13 November 2008 (CET)
riddles for engine patchers:
- Dynamic holstering
- Combat situation and owner's weapon based. Customized for each weapon. That means:
- -new flags in CMBT file. It has "melee override" so far, used values are 0,1,2 (cancelled),3,4,5. New values should be counterparts of these ( long (6) medium (7), short(8) ), but causing AI to holster/unholster weapon rather than switching melee/weapon stance.
- -new flag in ONWC file. Currently there are some (appearently) unused flag bits which should be used for this.
- -Add new flag. Weapon with this flag causes AI which wields this weapon to unholster when focused enemy is knockdowned, even if it is in range where our AI should have weapon holstered according to CMBT. Holster again when focused enemy goes into any different animation than knockdowned, blownuped or lying (so AI holsters as enemy tries to getup). -- Loser
- I don't understand some of what you propose above, it's very brief and technical; are you saying that you want AI to be able to shoot someone when they've been knocked down?
- I may not understand what you wrote, but it made me wish, for the first time, that I could unholster a weapon while knocked down, and shoot the enemy before I got up. That would be an awesome combat technique. Characters already have a small arc of rotation when on the ground, for some reason, so what if they had a gun in their hands and could aim with a vertical arc from the ground to the ceiling, and with a limited horizontal arc similar to what they seem to have already? --iritscen 20:10, 13 November 2008 (CET)
- Brilliant idea !!! Somebody should check whether it is possible. Sorry, I cannot...x_X
- About that you don't understand: old wish of mine. Three wishes in fact.
- 1) You see AI character. Unarmed. You run to fight it (no stealth killing). AI2 hears you when you are still quite far, turns, UNHOLSTERS ITS MERCURY BOW (or any other weapon) and....^_^.
- 2) You see AI shooting at you with w3_phr. You dodge shots while approaching this enemy, but at certain distance, AI HOLSTERS ITS WEAPON (not holding it in hand) and fights with you. If you try to run away or somehow you cross requred distance, AI unholsters and fires again.
- 3) You fight with AI from case 2). This AI manages to knockdown you. Now when you enter knockdown animation, AI automaticaly unholsters its weapon and fires at you. You get up as quickly as possible. The moment you start getting up, AI holsters and continues fighting you with MELEE. -- Loser
- Ah, I see, that is a good idea. --iritscen 20:45, 13 November 2008 (CET)
- -Add new flag. Weapon with this flag causes AI which wields this weapon to unholster when focused enemy is knockdowned, even if it is in range where our AI should have weapon holstered according to CMBT. Holster again when focused enemy goes into any different animation than knockdowned, blownuped or lying (so AI holsters as enemy tries to getup). -- Loser
- Smart jumping
Add this as flag in ONCC. If set, this AI tries systematically (not MELEE randomly) to jump across gaps it can pass in order to reach its enemy. -- Loser
Miscellaneous
- Patrol paths
It is also essential to set up innovative patrol paths (redeeming stealth). --geyser
- Sneaking
Ever since I first played Oni and was told by the game that I could not be heard while sneaking, it's bothered me that Konoko's heels still made just as much noise while crouch-walking as they did while walking or running. Click-clack, click-clack, all day every day. That makes no sense! Am I the only person who's annoyed by this? The only question is, how hard is it to fix? --Iritscen