OniGalore talk:Current events

Spam-related talk moved to Talk:War on spam... geyser 00:00, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

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Speaking of not so current events:

"Offsets -- They're tedious to add, but they're generally more helpful than the color map when actually viewing/editing a file"

Are there any OBD pages without offsets left?

Neo

I had a quick look and found no OBD pages without offsets. There's some inconsistent "types" for data fields (but nothing dramatic), not enough plain-language headers stating "what this file is for" and "what links here" when applicable. Also, typically confusing and/or insufficient documentation whenever the format gets complicated (PAR3 and such)... The BINA pages are still lacking nice-looking menus from level0_Tools.

geyser 21:08, 23 May 2008 (CEST)

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Removing some outright erroneous statements by Royal We.

"We have always been open to including the quotes from the foreign language versions of Oni." Heck no.

This is why I like being able to see a wiki page's history:

Perhaps various translations should be compared with the English somehow, to get a sort of "international" overview.

If you have the time to contribute complete collections of quotes in German/French/Italian/Russian/whatever, you're welcome.

Otherwise, don't bother ripping/uploading a translation if it doesn't diverge significantly from the English version.

- by geyser, from before my rewrite of the page --Iritscen 19:13, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

Oh, OK then, thanks for consolidating outdated info and for radicalizing dialectics. You scrapped my rather moderate bottom line (motivated by the fact that translations are redundant at best) and hyped up my "why not?" position on complete sets of quotes. --geyser 16:28, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

"We've always wondered what levels 5, 7, 15, 16, and 17 were supposed to be." Heck no. 1) we know what they were; 2) apart from BGI, they're irrelevant.

Uhhh, would you care to share that knowledge with the rest of us? What happens in those missing levels? And how is missing story ever "irrelevant"? --Iritscen 19:13, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

1) ONLD + Pre-beta content; 3) level 7 is "Obsolete", level 16 is "BGI HQ" and level 5 is "Airport Part Deux"; 4) There is no trace of 15 and 17 in the ONLD or in the beta IGMD. As for the story elements in 5 (and 7 and 16) they were scrapped in a way that leaves no gaps in the continuity (e.g., at the Airport) so those levels are not technically "missing" (even more true for stuff that was totally cut at pre-beta). In any case, I'd make a clear difference between Lost Chapters (consensual stuff that fills in the few gaps between the canonical chapters) and more radical elaborations that fall either under Oni 2 or AE and such. --geyser 16:28, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

"At that point, all the images in Talking Heads will fall into the Unused images list. We can probably solve that by just listing all images at Images" Heck no. Listing image categories at the most.

Listing image categories doesn't solve the problem of being unable to sort out the truly unused images from all the ones that are categorized and viewable in a category-as-gallery, like this one. But maybe I'm the only one that this bothers, because I'm trying to stay on top of the images that have been uploaded over time here. Speaking of which... --Iritscen 19:13, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

Categories, special pages etc can never replace human awareness of just what is actually being used and where and how. So please, don't you ever set up a page like THIS again. It doesn't fix anything, except maybe some psychological problem of your own. Specifically, I hope you understand that force-listing images on a page just so they're not auto-listed as "unused" is, in short, a lie. And clearly the proper way to "use" a categorized image is not to make galleries redundant of categories, but to actually put the image to some non-trivial use, in some non-trivial context. --geyser 16:28, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

It's not so much a lie as a way of working around the fact that appearing in a gallery-like category page doesn't count as being used (which is natural). There was never anything wrong with the Images page as it is now, except to you and you alone, so if we left it that way, there'd be no issue.

appearing in a gallery-like category page doesn't count as being used Oh, was there ever anything wrong with that, except for you? Oh wait, you didn't want to categorize images in the first place... ^_^ --geyser 20:10, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

"was there ever anything wrong with that?" Wait, what is "that"? Are you asking, Was there anything wrong with using the category pages as galleries for the images? No, not per se. Just that this method drops everything into Unused Images, as I said. My point is, How can I find the truly wasteful images when they're buried in a list of the art? It's not the end of the world, but I just think there's nothing wrong with listing images on a page or set of pages, which also prevents this issue. --Iritscen 20:37, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

The line about the wiki not replacing "human awareness" is utter bull-hockey; why do we categorize bloody anything if not because our minds can't keep track of where everything is, what it's for, and whether it's being used? This is the same basic flaw in your view that you have with the Wanted Pages: since you know (or think you do) what needs to actually be written, and what is just a random redlink, you think it's okay to have 400+ unique redlinks in the wiki, when really the Whole Point of pages like Unused Images and Wanted Pages is to help us humans with our limited recall and awareness to keep track of issues that need to be addressed. No one's even asking you to address them, I volunteered myself for that menial and arduous task, and yet you feel obliged to stand in my way when I try to make this wiki's support pages function like they were designed to.

the Whole Point of pages like Unused Images and Wanted Pages is to help us humans Oh, I wouldn't want to ruin your commodities, Mister Royal We... but still "Images" in its current state is yet another instance of THIS which I would say is part of the problem rather than part of the solution ^_^ --geyser 20:10, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

The Images page is in no way like my ConsoleFix subpage. One, it's not a hack designed to take something off an Unused list. It was specifically made to show off our collection of Oni art. Two, what's wrong with the page, in your view? It's in mid-conversion, granted; I was in the process of moving things to using only category pages, as you wanted, and I would have finished that by now if it weren't for my lack of time. But really, what was wrong with pages like "Images/Concept_Art/Sketches"? --Iritscen 20:37, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

And it's completely unnecessary to find a place for each of those gallery images in other articles, because that's not what they're for, they're intended to be their own raison d'etre so we can preserve the art of Oni somewhere. --Iritscen 18:26, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

You know a wiki is not an ideal repository for a large number of (large) image files. Directories (or archive files) on whoever.oni2.net are much more fit for that purpose, if you're going for an exhaustive collection. If an image deserves to be on the wiki at all, it should be worth being put on display, it should serve some kind of purpose, not just lie around in a category. And if an image can only be stumbled upon when browsing a category, then in what sense is it "used", really? Why can't Royal We accept that "Unused images" technically means "Non-featured images" and leave it there? --geyser 20:10, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

I don't know that I agree about the wiki not being suited to hosting large numbers of images. Someone somewhere saw fit to implement wiki support for image galleries with the <gallery> tag, so they thought this wasn't a bad idea....

"wiki-support images like this little mystery item: Image:OE-table.png" Aw, come on... you're a scream.

Glad I'm providing you with some amusement, but what's wrong with my attempt to get rid of pointless vestigial images? --Iritscen 19:13, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

It was a hypish initiative, totally out of proportion, and almost offensively pointless itself. Clearly the right person to ask about stuff like Image:OE-table.png is Dox and Dox alone; and as for the OBD screenshots, asking a grouped question about them on ssg's talk page was also the sensible thing to do: fewer edits, less time spent typing and clicking for everyone involved. --geyser 16:28, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Okay, so in the future I will go back to the source -- whoever uploaded an image -- and ask them personally. Point taken. --Iritscen 18:26, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Trying to make the page both more serious/accurate and more lively.

And inserting many needless carriage returns, as usual :-p Some people's screens *are* larger than 13", you know. --Iritscen 19:13, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

1) It's the pixels that matter, not the inches; 2) FYI, my screen is 1600x1200, and line breaks are my way to avoid unreadably long lines of small print on ultra-wide screens; 3) The line breaks you're complaining about right now have nothing to do with text width: they provide padding for the picture on the right so that it doesn't interfere with the edit-link of the first section. --geyser 16:28, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

It's really the needless tabs that irritate me here. It makes things look sloppy, plus it looks like someone's responding to someone else when you tab in like that from the previous line. --Iritscen 18:26, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

geyser 17:42, 3 June 2008 (CEST)