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Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events (view source)
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:::::::::::::::::::::Let me re-state my position re: the "actual" Wilderness threat as you envision it "during Oni 2": with daodanimals pointing their noses, and insect swarms ''finally'' joining the airborne seeding fun, Nausicaa-style (sorry, but the analogy with the modus propagandi of the Sea of Corruption is too exact to overlook). I understand that your story ultimately presents it all as ''the'' threat faced by the protagonist and by humanity in general, but in my impression, such a development would work best if it's one of ''several'' major concerns. Phase hazards, META issues (civilization alienated from within/above, rather than "evicted" by alienated flora/fauna) and belligerent human factions -- those are just a few things that could shift the focus from WPs back to urban areas time and again. My feeling is that it would ensure some variety and keep the plot from being dominated by a Wilderness fetish that's too "green" and (yes, sorry) Nausicaa-like. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 03:32, 30 July 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::::::::::Let me re-state my position re: the "actual" Wilderness threat as you envision it "during Oni 2": with daodanimals pointing their noses, and insect swarms ''finally'' joining the airborne seeding fun, Nausicaa-style (sorry, but the analogy with the modus propagandi of the Sea of Corruption is too exact to overlook). I understand that your story ultimately presents it all as ''the'' threat faced by the protagonist and by humanity in general, but in my impression, such a development would work best if it's one of ''several'' major concerns. Phase hazards, META issues (civilization alienated from within/above, rather than "evicted" by alienated flora/fauna) and belligerent human factions -- those are just a few things that could shift the focus from WPs back to urban areas time and again. My feeling is that it would ensure some variety and keep the plot from being dominated by a Wilderness fetish that's too "green" and (yes, sorry) Nausicaa-like. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 03:32, 30 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::::::::::Too many threats. Unless you plan to join some of them with a common root that the good guys can attack. Otherwise you've just produced a [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld Crapsack World] that no one can do anything about and that players don't want to live in. But to be clear, I never suggested making the whole game about fighting the Wilderness. Then it would be called Reclamation Wretches, and that's a totally different game ("Press X to customize your flamethrower…"). For my ideas on other aspects of the story besides dealing with the Wilderness, see the [[Oni2:Slaves of War/Factions|Factions]] page. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:22, 30 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::::::::::Too many threats. Unless you plan to join some of them with a common root that the good guys can attack. Otherwise you've just produced a [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld Crapsack World] that no one can do anything about and that players don't want to live in. But to be clear, I never suggested making the whole game about fighting the Wilderness. Then it would be called Reclamation Wretches, and that's a totally different game ("Press X to customize your flamethrower…"). For my ideas on other aspects of the story besides dealing with the Wilderness, see the [[Oni2:Slaves of War/Factions|Factions]] page. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:22, 30 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::::::::::::::It doesn't work like this. A single overpowered threat can easily give you crapsack syndrome -- and, conversely, multiple well-balanced threats can make for a thrilling experience where you never know what awaits you around the corner: humans with guns, a swarm of hungry Screamers, a hulking META-mech, a couple of [[:Image: | :::::::::::::::::::::::It doesn't work like this. A single overpowered threat can easily give you crapsack syndrome -- and, conversely, multiple well-balanced threats can make for a thrilling experience where you never know what awaits you around the corner: humans with guns, a swarm of hungry Screamers, a hulking META-mech, a couple of [[:Image:Duality concept art - BioCorp VR avatar.jpg|these]] merry fellows, or Mukade knows what else. Of course the player needs to have enough skills to survive every such encounter, and it helps if the story lets him bring closure to at least some of the threats. And I do acknowledge that your Oni 2 wouldn't have been entirely Wilderness-centered (we've been through this before). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 22:48, 30 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::::::::::::I suppose you're right that a Crapsack World can have a single cause. "1984" comes to mind, with its [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=OP OP] government surveillance. My objection to multiple factions is that there should be a root cause behind whatever bad we're adding to the world. Otherwise the story feels disjointed and the problems insurmountable (how many different evils do we have to fight?!), having a burdensome effect on the player's psyche. In SoW, all the factions and problems that exist in Oni's world but not ours relate to the Daodan and phase technology, which themselves are also linked. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 18:16, 31 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::::::::::::I suppose you're right that a Crapsack World can have a single cause. "1984" comes to mind, with its [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=OP OP] government surveillance. My objection to multiple factions is that there should be a root cause behind whatever bad we're adding to the world. Otherwise the story feels disjointed and the problems insurmountable (how many different evils do we have to fight?!), having a burdensome effect on the player's psyche. In SoW, all the factions and problems that exist in Oni's world but not ours relate to the Daodan and phase technology, which themselves are also linked. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 18:16, 31 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::::::::::::::::I could argue that you can't hinge all the factions and their motivations on a single "root cause", or it will look artificial as hell, like you're writing a large novel off a premise that would be more suitable for a short story. Even so, I don't think we disagree. "Everything is connected." Even if some guy/girl lost their family in the Cataclysm and vows revenge against Konoko (and turns evil bcause of that), that would qualify as Daodan/Phase/Diluvian-based too, I guess. Then again, I am sure there are plenty of games that present the player with "many different evils" without that being a problem. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 01:08, 1 August 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::::::::::::::I could argue that you can't hinge all the factions and their motivations on a single "root cause", or it will look artificial as hell, like you're writing a large novel off a premise that would be more suitable for a short story. Even so, I don't think we disagree. "Everything is connected." Even if some guy/girl lost their family in the Cataclysm and vows revenge against Konoko (and turns evil bcause of that), that would qualify as Daodan/Phase/Diluvian-based too, I guess. Then again, I am sure there are plenty of games that present the player with "many different evils" without that being a problem. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 01:08, 1 August 2020 (CEST) | ||