Oni2:A Storyline/PostSummary1: Difference between revisions

| Also mentions Blender. Designs aren't in a format ready to post yet. Training level could be set in a natural cave, and player is helped to "remember" the controls and their abilities. Some settings: Vansam City, under control of government, not totally post-apocalyptic; a dingy nightclub in a warehouse; a lounge in a skyscraper; various streets and suburbs; a "man hunt" [for Mai?] in a mall closed for the night; and lots of natural settings with trees and grass. Likes idea of chaos in serene nature settings.

| Likes idea of DBZ-style [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azQWUAtGUmQ#t=0m40s power-up scene]. Clarifies that he meant fighting alongside Mai. In response to main char. being weaker, maybe (again, referencing DBZ) the newer generation of Chrysalis reaches maturity faster. Likes wall-running idea, suggests using it for counter-attacks a la Double Dragon [I couldn't find video of that, but here's [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy59xjF21Rs#t=2m44s a video] of Double Dragon III, a game that predated Street Fighter II -- some of these moves look pretty familiar ^_^]. But wall flips would be hard to do without being able to see behind you. Suggests that Mai's hair grow when she transforms, and float in the air.

| A "proximity map" in corner of screen would let you see who is behind you. Asks Pierre if a black hole gun is doable. Long floating hair would obscure player's view. Did Hasegawa really start working with Daodan only after Jamie died? Was only months or days [really?] before Syndicate raided his lab and found his two Chrysalises. Perhaps he lied in his diary.

| Acknowledges difficulty of natural settings, but would be content with how Serious Engine did it three years ago [that is, 2002]. And anyway, fun is most important factor, not graphics. Likes some of owldreamer's model, but arms are too small. Is it supposed to be Mai?

| Reiterates that Daodan is a separate entity that replaces the host. Points to mention of its "unearthly" abilities. It could be a "sentient cancer from outer space". From "another dimension"... wherever Screaming Cells and Mukade's Devil Star are from. Chrysalis is what results when this alien lifeform comes into contact with one of us. Its cells are like stem cells that don't lose their totipotence and which split rapidly and want to replace other cells. Smarter than cancer because it doesn't kill its host. Perhaps Daodan comes from superior, immaterial beings who want to evolve material life to serve some purpose of their own... references Asimov [*consults mental record of his comprehensive library of Asimov stories* Perhaps he means "Does A Bee Care?", one of my favorites. Here's [[wikipedia:Does a Bee Care?|a crappy summary]] of that short story, but you're better off reading the real thing than spoiling it for yourself.] Muro's monstrous transformation was a result of being unstable (noting the talk of "stability" with regards to Mai in the story); he developed too fast. Daodan has to gather info about host by finishing an initial transformation before it can settle down and adapt at a "standby" rate. Aura in overpower mode is visible aspect of the original immaterial Daodan being, which continues to guide the process. Unlike host, it's immortal. Responding to TTK, says that there are three or four prime symbiotes (counts Barabas and Mukade). Asks why owldreamer why Hikari should simply re-use Mai's animations. Is his Syndicate leader a Daodan Imago? Asks for opinions on cel shading.

| Has been writing fanfics that focus on the characters and their back story because they're underdeveloped. In his ideas for Oni 2, TCTF and Syndicate have to join forces to save humanity. Points out that a good storyline can also be based on characters and personalities [Yes, yes, a thousand times "yes" to this comment].

| Konoko makes it clear at the end of Oni that the atmospheric damage is not going to be reversed, so even 20 years, order is not a sure thing. Thinks that geyser et al. are brushing that major issue under the rug when they wish for a stable setting for their game. Also, the Syndicate draws its strength from the underprivileged masses living outside the cities, therefore after the fall of the cities the struggle between authorities and Syndicate will only grow and chaos will increase. Finally, 20 years passing will disconnect the story's atmosphere from Oni 1. Points to Bungie's trend with other sequels -- in Myth and Halo, a single charismatic individual survives destruction to bring about a new order. Also, game doesn't have to be set in a wasteland; half-ruined cities, secret installations, even offices in new cities can be settings. Simply doesn't see how post-apocalyptic setting limits potential of an action game. Describes scenes wherein Mai runs from TCTF recovery squads and the Iron Demon battles its way through a ruined building out into the street under a toxic rain. Questions for a sequel: (A) Might there have been other Daodan research teams, or someone who picked up where Kerr left off?; (B) Who financed Griffin and who investigated his supposed corruption [referring to [[Quotes/Consoles#Terrance_Griffin|this console]]]; (C) Might anyone at the TCTF who knew Konoko want to join her?; (D) Did Muro have any rivals who survived him at the Syndicate? Perhaps now they are seeking Konoko, as a threat or as a guide; (E) Did Hasegawa meet "other relevant persons" during his captivity in the Syndicate?; (F) Mukade could communicate with his Daodan and with Mai mentally [I'm pretty sure the game doesn't say this], so perhaps he was a more advanced prototype of Hasegawa's; was this an attempt to attain the equilibrium or control that [[Quotes/Consoles#Chrysalis_Removal|the TCTF wanted]]?; (G) Perhaps Barabas was only KOed by Konoko and is imprisoned in Oni 2, and sought out by Konoko for some answers.

| Tells Alloc to play the end of Oni again. Asks Guido why Hikari would fight Mai. Doesn't want to set story in post-apocalypse. It will simply be mission after mission of bunkers and dead people and ruined city streets. Doesn't think that the TCTF chasing Mai through a city is compelling because she can out-run everyone, especially if they have to wear protective gear. The Iron Demon wouldn't do too well under acid rain, either. Does not see much potential for action when Mai can hide anywhere and outpace everybody, plus why would she be running around ruined cities, anyway? And who says cities have to be in ruins, for that matter? All that happened is that the ACCs outside the cities [are they really?] blew up and then the air went bad. Ghost cities, yes; ruins, no. Suggests that Oni 2 have 30 missions and 100+ hours of gameplay. Doesn't think that 20 years would be too distant from Oni 1; we can revisit old settings. Maybe the only green areas are under domes now. And that 20 years of technological advancement cuts both ways: how can we introduce new weapons and Mai's fancy new bike if Oni 2 takes place right after Oni? But perhaps a couple opening levels could resume right after Oni 1, as Mai realizes what she's done, wandering around the cities. Then she falls into a "kind of painful trance/hibernation" for 20 years, and wakes up in a cave inside the Wilderness, unsure of who or what she is. She gradually notices that she's "different" and has to learn about the Daodan and her abilities again. In contrast to this player-friendly approach, picking up with after Cataclysm means that she is getting hunted by mobs of enemies and shot at, and the player might not know Oni's story and be totally overwhelmed. If anything, that scenario might make a good unlockable "prologue" after beating the game. Doubts that Muro or Barabas survived Oni. They may not have been killed by Mai, but the TCTF would have taken their bodies and finished them off, maybe autopsied them. Mukade, however, was KOed away from the reaches of the TCTF. Shoots down Guido's ideas of Mukade having "equilibrium" (the Daodan replaces you) and "telepathy" (they can sense each other, it's mutual between Daodan hosts). However, Mukade is probably a very advanced symbiote, maybe more so than Mai and Muro. Also negates Guido's suggestion of Griffin being "financed" or "corrupt"; the console says no such thing.

| Reiterates that TCTF is no match for Syndicate, therefore team sent after Shinatama was meant to be wiped out and fail their mission. Then refers to this same team [?] as a death squad sent after Konoko. Griffin may not be evil, but he's a clichéd "just doing his job" kind of character. And English console doesn't say anything about Griffin receiving money, so maybe the Italian has a bad translation. Downplays canonicity of manual. Reason for wanting to make Mai amnesiac at start of Oni 2 was precisely this -- so that the player doesn't have to be intimately familiar with Oni's story; we can then introduce the facts to Mai and the player at will. Reason for time skip is to allow technological development and add spice to the action. Not sure that setting the game right after Cataclysm is going to be compatible with fast-paced action. Doesn't want a depressing and desolate setting to fight in. And maybe the Humvee doesn't levitate. Questions assertion that not all ACCs blew up.

| Points out that the story gives gruesome details on what happened to Jamie [as evidence against a cover-up]. It does make things more interesting for Hasegawa's motivation if he was branded a criminal; his research might have had a mix of "altruism and resentment". What about doodles on whiteboard in his Lab?

| Has own idea for Oni 2: takes place 20 years after Oni 1. TCTF [he means WCG] has diminished power, but still controls some regions. World is stylized but polluted. Man starting to use mainly solar and wind energy. "Humans in the future generally don't have increased strength because of the Chrysalis at this point because they've spent most of their lives adapting to the pollution, but there are a few exceptions to the rule." Story is set in nation called United Federation. Not a wealthy or well-organized nation. Former police take hostages in bank to force government to merge with "TCTF". Konoko sent in to take them out, but she saves them instead. New government that is established gives most of the control to a leftist named Bismarck. He puts Konoko in charge of the Federal Security Force, but it soon becomes clear that he has been conspiring to become a dictator. He arms rebels so that they can be used as a premise for increasing his own power. Konoko tries to take him down and loses the fight against his guards, retreating. She needs to decide if she should team up with the "TCTF" or find another way.

| Isn't sure that we should use "patented" [well-known] names for characters. Isn't fond of some of the political message. Syndicate won't just go away, they're a major military force that was prepared for the poisoning of the air.

| "Many fans want to see real Oni 2". [I guess he means from T2 et al.?]

| Thinks that Furies are the toughest non-bosses and speculates that there was going to be a Fury boss in the game. Mukade is a level above the other ninjas because of his higher health and his Devil Stars. But Muro is hardest because his moves do the most damage. Thinks that Mukade is dead and that he simply overestimated his abilities, like Barabas; that's why he only took one brown ninja with him at the end. If Konoko can "sense" Mukade, then how did he hide his survival from her? Tells Snake that there was another Bismark [sic] that was all about brute power.

| [Posts drawing of Syndicate Guard gunner.] [Links to ssg's collection of pre-beta screenshots and the two trailers.] Why did Konoko used to look more mechanical (eyes, skin plugs...)? Was she a cyborg like Motoko originally, and the Daodan stuff was added later? "Motoko" certainly sounds like "Konoko". And Konoko allegedly means "kitty".

| Thinks that AnonAnom's ideas are interesting, but still prefers Mukade=Dad hypothesis for the more interesting story it yields. Not sure that you can extract an SLD's engrams like that anyway, certainly not that quickly. And you can't implant a Daodan into an SLD [is this true?]. But maybe Barabas was a cyborg who was given a Daodan; the Daodan only modified his organic parts, thus explaining his incomplete transformation. Shinatama can appear elsewhere in Oni 2 (likes Owldreamer's ideas for her/Hikari). Mukade could be Hasegawa and still work for Muro, as he has plenty of leeway in carrying out his missions. He might prefer to observe from the shadows while Muro does his dictator thing, plus it lets him get close to Mai. And he might indeed have plans which are unknown to Muro. Agrees with typhen that air could be breathable again in 20 years, esp. with Mukade being a scientist and having "ET-enhanced intelligence". Would not call TCTF the "TCTF" anymore; "if Mai's amnesiac, you don't want too many bells to ring at once." And why would Mai go to the police HQ? They'd be more likely to take her in when she shows up on the streets. You then have to escape custody. Dislikes idea of Chrysalis folk; too many difficult implications, and besides, why would they ally with Mai? And the Syndicate should definitely be the world power since they were the world's only army and they were ready for the Cataclysm. Doesn't see Syndicate getting scattered or putting Chrysalises in everyone, only a trusted few close to Mukade. Mai would definitely be young and human-looking, as the Chrysalis will aim for immortality and also allowing the host to fit in with its kin and not be destroyed. Does want her to be weakened so player can learn her abilities gradually as she recovers them. The "hardsuits" that let you play in "Godzilla" mode will use the same combat system so you already know how to control it. Like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, Mai's diet could change radically, allowing her to go without much food. Maybe she could have a "teleport gauge" that allows her to automatically escape instant-death situations like the ones in Rooftops if she has enough charge built up. Prefers his "shattered rebellion" idea to a simple alternation between Wilderness and City; allows for more variety in situations, more character motivations, and more interesting story developments. Agrees that Mai should be able to take out helicopters by jumping, even vaulting from one to another in order to climb, or throwing objects at them like expended weapons. Has more plans for how weapons are used in melee combat....

| Doesn't want to make too many outdoor areas, instead focusing on making the Cave map perfect and using it twice. Rejects the idea of "Chrysalis to the people". High-jumping would be directed by a targeting system. You'd have a gauge for "high jumping, fast running, strong punching, teleporting, throwing heavy stuff, KAMEHAMEHAing balls of fire etc." Falling off a roof can be solved with either auto-teleporting (also on a gauge) or else allowing the player to continue through the level on the ground. Dislikes idea of a holstered gun disappearing as in Oni 1. They could have anti-gravity devices on them so that they float up in the air above Konoko until she grabs them again. Or perhaps she can throw them very high up, do some melee fighting, then grab the gun as it falls (the game can show where the gun is going to land). Large guns probably shouldn't be holsterable at all; you either carry them and get slowed down, or drop them and regain your agility. [Links to Serious Sam 2 footage about which he is very excited.] Loves open spaces in SSII and the futuristic cities. Doesn't want to consider having Mai get pregnant, as that requires working in a romantic angle. Doubts that a fully-integrated symbiote would even reproduce in a normal human way. Perhaps they simply "bud" when it's time to reproduce. Fighting a bunch of budded Mukade clones might be interesting, but it's not something he's keen on.

| Quotes a post of geyser's [from where? not this thread?] about not wanting to tell an Oni 2 story that is relentlessly dark because it's numbing for the player. Disagrees, a dark story can still have strong emotion. Although Oni 1 didn't really use any visual language to augment its story except perhaps in Dream Lab, where the feeling is dismal and enclosed because of the space Konoko is in while listening to her father's account.

| Wasn't advocating darkness in Oni 2 per se. However, Oni's world "allows for a multifaceted plot: from the most trivial to the most complex, there's cops and criminals (or government and rebellion), friendship and betrayal, mercy and vengeance, insanity and kinslaying, questionable humanity (androids, cyborgs, clones, symbiotes), non-human intelligence, grand design... It's quite rich indeed, so if there's darkness, it won't be trivial who-dies-next darkness. Neither will the player really know what kind of plot twists to expect. Oni (2) is not confined to a genre (such as "noir" for [Max Payne]), it's rather complex science-fiction (maybe more complex than Ghost in the Shell, even), and I think it's a very good thing." Also, we should have some nightmare sequences in Oni 2.