18,700
edits
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events (view source)
Revision as of 15:55, 27 July 2020
, 27 July 2020→The Scratch: dropping big little note here
(elaborating on my image of the Daomen) |
(→The Scratch: dropping big little note here) |
||
| Line 209: | Line 209: | ||
:::::::::::::I think it's you who's underestimating how fast your own super-duper alien plants of doom can spread... In the initial concept, "a single seed is enough to corrupt a whole area", but then airborne seeds/spores/pollen are allowed to cross fences (how often would that happen? how about ''daily''?) and somehow it doesn't defeat the purpose of said fences? What the blam? I'm not complaining, especially since I know the issue is easily fixed by assuming vegetative reproduction, but it's strange to see a potent bio-threat that stays confined mainly because the writer doesn't need it yet. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::I think it's you who's underestimating how fast your own super-duper alien plants of doom can spread... In the initial concept, "a single seed is enough to corrupt a whole area", but then airborne seeds/spores/pollen are allowed to cross fences (how often would that happen? how about ''daily''?) and somehow it doesn't defeat the purpose of said fences? What the blam? I'm not complaining, especially since I know the issue is easily fixed by assuming vegetative reproduction, but it's strange to see a potent bio-threat that stays confined mainly because the writer doesn't need it yet. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::I don't think I'll repeat myself any more on this subject. I thought I was clear enough when I stated that these plants can grow at any speed that we find convenient for our purposes, and it will be plausible. How fast does a plant spread in real life? Now, how fast does a super-plant spread, when it's up against an alien ecosystem? Probably the same speed. So why can't the WCG just move their fences out a few yards every year? Problem solved. End of discussion. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::I don't think I'll repeat myself any more on this subject. I thought I was clear enough when I stated that these plants can grow at any speed that we find convenient for our purposes, and it will be plausible. How fast does a plant spread in real life? Now, how fast does a super-plant spread, when it's up against an alien ecosystem? Probably the same speed. So why can't the WCG just move their fences out a few yards every year? Problem solved. End of discussion. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::I was reviewing the manual, and realized that we both forgot a very important sentence: "The poor bastards who can't afford to live in the cities get as close to the atmosphere processors as they can and eke out a miserable (and dangerous) existence working on the reclamation teams who beat back the corrosive stain of the wilderness." So there is in fact a "Wilderness Preserve Task Force", as you put it. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:55, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | |||
::::::::::It may seem naive of the WCG to think they can contain the Wilderness, but they might know full well that it's a losing battle. They also are taking steps to contain the growing Wilderness, but clearly they're losing since the toxins in the air are increasing, according to Oni. Also, to whatever degree they're wrong about how well they have it contained, that's our way of adding some drama to the story. Finding out that the trophic level of the Wilderness is advancing to herbivores, insectivores, and then carnivores will be an alarming development. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::It may seem naive of the WCG to think they can contain the Wilderness, but they might know full well that it's a losing battle. They also are taking steps to contain the growing Wilderness, but clearly they're losing since the toxins in the air are increasing, according to Oni. Also, to whatever degree they're wrong about how well they have it contained, that's our way of adding some drama to the story. Finding out that the trophic level of the Wilderness is advancing to herbivores, insectivores, and then carnivores will be an alarming development. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::The [[Quotes/Consoles#STURMANDERUNG_:_Secondary_Stage|increasing air toxicity]] is one of the most ambiguous parts of Oni canon. Not only does it involve the infamous "36.18% increase" of Dioxin levels, but it seemingly presents the toxin rise as a consequence of Muro's retrofitting of the ACCs. At no point are the WPs stated as a prominent source of airborne toxins in Oni's world: all we have is "biological contamination" encountered during flyovers, and the uncanny "virus" from Jamie's bush. Of course it doesn't mean that toxins don't emanate from the Contaminated Zones at all, but it doesn't establish the WPs as the planet's "toxic lungs", either. If anything, I'd blame a WCG-era toxin rise (pre-Muro) on imperfect waste processing procedures at the ACCs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::The [[Quotes/Consoles#STURMANDERUNG_:_Secondary_Stage|increasing air toxicity]] is one of the most ambiguous parts of Oni canon. Not only does it involve the infamous "36.18% increase" of Dioxin levels, but it seemingly presents the toxin rise as a consequence of Muro's retrofitting of the ACCs. At no point are the WPs stated as a prominent source of airborne toxins in Oni's world: all we have is "biological contamination" encountered during flyovers, and the uncanny "virus" from Jamie's bush. Of course it doesn't mean that toxins don't emanate from the Contaminated Zones at all, but it doesn't establish the WPs as the planet's "toxic lungs", either. If anything, I'd blame a WCG-era toxin rise (pre-Muro) on imperfect waste processing procedures at the ACCs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
| Line 245: | Line 246: | ||
::::::::::::::My notion, though I didn't spell it out, was that their sleep chambers were mobile and took measures to save their occupants. But yes, they could just be hibernating and occasionally waking up and moving. Seems unlikely they would last that long without some kind of artificial preservation, though, considering even the mountains are younger than they would be…. Unlike you, I never envisioned the Diluvians as being godlike in intellect, so I see no reason why they would have to be broadly successful at surviving millions of years in stasis. They may never have thought they'd have to wait that long to awaken. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::My notion, though I didn't spell it out, was that their sleep chambers were mobile and took measures to save their occupants. But yes, they could just be hibernating and occasionally waking up and moving. Seems unlikely they would last that long without some kind of artificial preservation, though, considering even the mountains are younger than they would be…. Unlike you, I never envisioned the Diluvians as being godlike in intellect, so I see no reason why they would have to be broadly successful at surviving millions of years in stasis. They may never have thought they'd have to wait that long to awaken. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::To be clearer on my mental image of the Daomen, I was thinking of something highly structured and differentiated that could have existed on land. Placing such a creature in the pre-Permian era would mean it would have to be something like a [[wp:Dinocephalia|dinocephalian]], the lost forebear of the dinosaurs. The main problems with that idea are the fact that reptiles of this era were more or less 100% quadrupedal, which means no "hands" freed up to do things like make tools, plus most of them had tiny craniums and so were likely unintelligent (some Moschops had [[wp:File:Tapinocephalidae_-_Moschops_capensis.JPG|huge craniums]] but were very much gravity-bound to stand on all four of their feet). However, the timing is right (middle-Permian) to explain the sudden disappearance of coal and other suspiciously-simultaneous events like the sudden rise in CO2 and the acidification of the oceans (read [[wp:Guadalupian|this short page]] for some intriguing detail on the time period where the dinocephalians had their sudden rise and fall in the fossil record). Maybe the "Daomen" were descendants of the earlier [[wp:Troodontidae|troodons]] which we haven't found fossils for because of the nature of their extinction and the survivors' move to the oceans. There's some [https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/inside-the-mind-of-a-dinosaur-2/ very recent evidence] for the tyrannosaurs being a lot smarter than we realized, having large brains for their ilk. This would include the T. rex, but also the intriguingly human-sized [[wp:Timurlengia|Timurlengia]]. Note that these were bipedal reptiles, albeit with frustratingly short forelimbs. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:48, 9 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::To be clearer on my mental image of the Daomen, I was thinking of something highly structured and differentiated that could have existed on land. Placing such a creature in the pre-Permian era would mean it would have to be something like a [[wp:Dinocephalia|dinocephalian]], the lost forebear of the dinosaurs. The main problems with that idea are the fact that reptiles of this era were more or less 100% quadrupedal, which means no "hands" freed up to do things like make tools, plus most of them had tiny craniums and so were likely unintelligent (some Moschops had [[wp:File:Tapinocephalidae_-_Moschops_capensis.JPG|huge craniums]] but were very much gravity-bound to stand on all four of their feet). However, the timing is right (middle-Permian) to explain the sudden disappearance of coal and other suspiciously-simultaneous events like the sudden rise in CO2 and the acidification of the oceans (read [[wp:Guadalupian|this short page]] for some intriguing detail on the time period where the dinocephalians had their sudden rise and fall in the fossil record). Maybe the "Daomen" were descendants of the earlier [[wp:Troodontidae|troodons]] which we haven't found fossils for because of the nature of their extinction and the survivors' move to the oceans. There's some [https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/inside-the-mind-of-a-dinosaur-2/ very recent evidence] for the tyrannosaurs being a lot smarter than we realized, having large brains for their ilk. This would include the T. rex, but also the intriguingly human-sized [[wp:Timurlengia|Timurlengia]]. Note that these were bipedal reptiles, albeit with frustratingly short forelimbs. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:48, 9 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::If we're going to consider the ocean as the habitat and source of the Diluvians, then I think we should be looking seriously at the octopus, which has been around since [[wp:Octopus#Evolution|before the P-Tr boundary]]. The octopus is the most likely | ::::::::::::::If we're going to consider the ocean as the habitat and source of the Diluvians, then I think we should be looking seriously at the octopus, which has been around since [[wp:Octopus#Evolution|before the P-Tr boundary]]. The octopus is the most likely oceanic life to succeed us as Earth's dominant intelligent species, should anything happen to us, which is why I suggested at the end of [[Oni2:Slaves_of_War/Story#Daodan|this section]] of my Story page that the game should end with the Daodan being passed on (bequeathed, accidentally) to the octopus. I suppose we could invert that and ask, What if some type of (no doubt giant) octopus already preceded us as the dominant species, until something went wrong and they had to retreat into sleep chambers until it blew over? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:48, 9 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
===Daodan Genesis=== | ===Daodan Genesis=== | ||