19,584
edits
Modding brainstorms: Difference between revisions
m
OniX-affected article
m (changing link from http->https) |
m (OniX-affected article) |
||
| (8 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{Brainstorm}} | {{Brainstorm}} | ||
{{UpdatedForOniX|1.0.0}} | |||
Put any ideas for modding here -- though if your idea gives an answer to a criticism posed on the [[Review criticisms]] page, then you might want to post it there instead. | Put any ideas for modding here -- though if your idea gives an answer to a criticism posed on the [[Review criticisms]] page, then you might want to post it there instead. | ||
| Line 41: | Line 42: | ||
==New/revised scenarios== | ==New/revised scenarios== | ||
"Reshuffled or upgraded binaries are worthless without some genuinely inventive level logic." - geyser | "Reshuffled or upgraded binaries are worthless without some genuinely inventive level logic." - '''geyser''' | ||
;Taking advantage of savepoint slots | ;Taking advantage of savepoint slots | ||
| Line 66: | Line 67: | ||
:::Well, let's see if someone else is interested in doing this as a learning exercise (since it is a pretty straightforward hack, that is, the bullet modding would be, not the armor side of things). I'd prefer someone who doesn't already have a ton on their plate to take this on, and I know that between certain members getting more free time soon, and the eager newbies we have on the forum, there's someone we can ask to do this for us. --'''Iritscen''' | :::Well, let's see if someone else is interested in doing this as a learning exercise (since it is a pretty straightforward hack, that is, the bullet modding would be, not the armor side of things). I'd prefer someone who doesn't already have a ton on their plate to take this on, and I know that between certain members getting more free time soon, and the eager newbies we have on the forum, there's someone we can ask to do this for us. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
::::Iritscen, I would take a look at the bomber. He's more active in matter of gunshots. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= | ::::Iritscen, I would take a look at the bomber. He's more active in matter of gunshots. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxX5dbYGZow (starts at 0:42)] --'''Paradox''' | ||
:::::Interesting, Paradox. That's not a bad radius on the bomber. I did a little testing with the Thug, who was the character that started this little rant of mine, and although his radius for hearing gunfire is quite low, he does at least come find you if a bullet hits near him. So would we have to change an ONCC setting or change a setting for the weapon particle, to make the gun's sound radius larger? --'''Iritscen''' | :::::Interesting, Paradox. That's not a bad radius on the bomber. I did a little testing with the Thug, who was the character that started this little rant of mine, and although his radius for hearing gunfire is quite low, he does at least come find you if a bullet hits near him. So would we have to change an ONCC setting or change a setting for the weapon particle, to make the gun's sound radius larger? --'''Iritscen''' | ||
::::::Methinks that the gun shot's sound radius (red line in vid) is okay as it is now except for the impact's sound radius (yellow line). Should be slightly increased. But in some cases AI seem to "ignore" both (paying quite low attention to it). So, I think the changes you need can be found in [[OBD:BINA/OBJC/CHAR# | ::::::Methinks that the gun shot's sound radius (red line in vid) is okay as it is now except for the impact's sound radius (yellow line). Should be slightly increased. But in some cases AI seem to "ignore" both (paying quite low attention to it). So, I think the changes you need can be found in [[OBD:BINA/OBJC/CHAR#Less_basic_setup|ONCC or CHAR (see pursuit modes)]] and might also interfere with part of the [[OBD:BINA/OBJC/CMBT#About_pursuit_distance|combat profile]]. Can't definite say, I hope you will find the answer. --'''Paradox''' | ||
:::::::I'm having trouble finding any red line in that video. Maybe it's my colorblindness, dunno. At what time(s) does it appear? Anyway, looking at the video, I feel like, in real life, a gunshot's sound would definitely carry all the way across the tarmac. But it seems that if we increased the gun's sound radius as much as I'm thinking, it might be a problem because sounds carry through walls in Oni. So you would end up alerting enemies on other floors in a building and in other rooms. --'''Iritscen''' | :::::::I'm having trouble finding any red line in that video. Maybe it's my colorblindness, dunno. At what time(s) does it appear? Anyway, looking at the video, I feel like, in real life, a gunshot's sound would definitely carry all the way across the tarmac. But it seems that if we increased the gun's sound radius as much as I'm thinking, it might be a problem because sounds carry through walls in Oni. So you would end up alerting enemies on other floors in a building and in other rooms. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
::::::::...sound does travel through walls in real life though. :S --'''Gumby''' | ::::::::...sound does travel through walls in real life though. :S --'''Gumby''' | ||
:::::::::But walls dampen sound IRL. My thought was that, in-game, sounds would probably travel unfairly far through walls if we increased the radius. Now I'm not so sure, because it seems to be bigger than I thought, and yet we don't observe AIs running in from other floors to find us. Probably this is because (a) those characters are not spawned yet, or else (b) they hear you but can't see you, so they don't come find you. --'''Iritscen''' | :::::::::But walls dampen sound IRL. My thought was that, in-game, sounds would probably travel unfairly far through walls if we increased the radius. Now I'm not so sure, because it seems to be bigger than I thought, and yet we don't observe AIs running in from other floors to find us. Probably this is because (a) those characters are not spawned yet, or else (b) they hear you but can't see you, so they don't come find you. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
[[ | [[Image:sounds.jpg|thumb]] | ||
::::::::Second try. | ::::::::Second try. Here's (<nowiki>https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/139715/sound_detection.avi</nowiki>, dead link) the vid in full glory. Don't become irritated by the extra sound sphere... Well, we haven't tested a bigger gun shot radius but I agree with you that the chances are high that it would lead to new problems. --'''Paradox''' | ||
:::::::::Thank you, I can see the line now, and the .jpg really helps explain things for me. I think I will withdraw my suggestion about increasing any sound radii. I would still like to see how the game plays with the change in firepower, though. It's not an urgent thing though, so let's just keep it in mind for someone to try in the future. --'''Iritscen''' | :::::::::Thank you, I can see the line now, and the .jpg really helps explain things for me. I think I will withdraw my suggestion about increasing any sound radii. I would still like to see how the game plays with the change in firepower, though. It's not an urgent thing though, so let's just keep it in mind for someone to try in the future. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
==Training level== | |||
The training course is the most absurd part of many games: in Oni's case {{C|0}} is less serious than {{C|11}}, by far. Thus, it is more suitable for blatant cameos. For example, both Motoko Kusanagi from GITS and Gally/Alita from [[GUNNM]] could appear as "sparring partners" late in the training course, probably not in the "default" course but hidden or unlocked in some way. They'd be presented as advanced training droids paying homage to famous anime fighting babes. | |||
Another thing to do is to build some pressure by having Griffin, Kerr, [[Casey]] and a bunch of other cops and scientists supervise Konoko's training in silence (through windows and force fields ahead of Konoko's progression). Casey may join Konoko in one of the training rooms, either to provide some storyline background or to introduce the basic elements of teamplay (both to be developed in {{C|1}} and beyond). --'''geyser''' | |||
==AI improvements== | ==AI improvements== | ||
| Line 81: | Line 87: | ||
;Ninja dodging | ;Ninja dodging | ||
I don't know if [ | I don't know if [[:Image:MP arena 3-2.jpg|this]] was a "manufactured" shot or not, but it's still awesome. Now, Loser has already gotten basic dodging working; what would it take to specifically get ninjas to either "ninja-slide" or jump as a form of dodging fire? Also, that jumping dude is ''really'' jumping. How would the game play out if the ninjas actually did have greater leaping ability than Konoko? It would make sense, wouldn't it? Especially if they're androids as ''some'' people like to think ;-) --'''Iritscen''' | ||
:NOTE: Ninjas actually jump higher than Konoko if they use "jetpack timer" powered jump as well (hold spacebar). According to my observations (only empiric - nothing proven) there is probably bug in AI2 code. AI2 computes distance of far jump as if char used jetpacked jump, yet AI2 for some reason CANNOT do more than tap jump. | :NOTE: Ninjas actually jump higher than Konoko if they use "jetpack timer" powered jump as well (hold spacebar). According to my observations (only empiric - nothing proven) there is probably bug in AI2 code. AI2 computes distance of far jump as if char used jetpacked jump, yet AI2 for some reason CANNOT do more than tap jump. | ||
| Line 113: | Line 119: | ||
*adding a new move such as a grab (perhaps stabbing his target with his hand) or a massive throw | *adding a new move such as a grab (perhaps stabbing his target with his hand) or a massive throw | ||
You might say, "Now, hold on, we don't want to make an impossible fight here." But notice point #2 above; it's unclear to what extent Konoko is using, or needs to use, her Daodan abilities to beat Muro. What if we present the fight as being too difficult for her unless she uses | You might say, "Now, hold on, we don't want to make an impossible fight here." But notice point #2 above; it's unclear to what extent Konoko is using, or needs to use, her Daodan abilities to beat Muro. What if we present the fight as being too difficult for her unless she uses hypos to go into an overpower state? It can be hinted in the objective text earlier in the mission that she needs to save hypos for this fight so the player has fair warning. And using a modded ONCC and/or some BSL, we could have her abilities increase dramatically while in overpower, so that she can fight Muro with better odds. | ||
Well, what do y'all think? And feel free to correct me if I mis-stated your point of view, Loser. --'''Iritscen''' | Well, what do y'all think? And feel free to correct me if I mis-stated your point of view, Loser. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
| Line 156: | Line 162: | ||
;Smart alarm behavior | ;Smart alarm behavior | ||
Loser wanted to make the AI attack you even when trying to get to an alert console. I don't think he made any changes in that regard yet, but I was chasing down a ninja Comguy who wanted to push the alert button, and when I got in his way, he *did* attack me. I think that further increasing the likeliness of the AI to attack you while in run-for-alert-console mode is not necessary, and maybe even a bad idea, since they can now dash as fast as Konoko, and so it's much more exciting/frightening when they run for the console. Staying and fighting would make them less of a threat, really, since after pressing the button they will fight you anyway and then you will also have other problems to deal with too. So I vote for "no change" in this regard. --'''Iritscen | Loser wanted to make the AI attack you even when trying to get to an alert console. I don't think he made any changes in that regard yet, but I was chasing down a ninja Comguy who wanted to push the alert button, and when I got in his way, he *did* attack me. I think that further increasing the likeliness of the AI to attack you while in run-for-alert-console mode is not necessary, and maybe even a bad idea, since they can now dash as fast as Konoko, and so it's much more exciting/frightening when they run for the console. Staying and fighting would make them less of a threat, really, since after pressing the button they will fight you anyway and then you will also have other problems to deal with too. So I vote for "no change" in this regard. --'''Iritscen''' | ||
:"This is a mistake". The point of Loser's aproach is that AI will interrupt their console-running job only when the player is about to take advantage of them (e.g., tackle them - Konoko still dashes faster than anyone except for Ninjas - or backbreak them at the console). They will then resume running as soon as they've put some distance between them and the player (e.g., by knocking the player down and/or retreating). This should much more consistent than the way it happens with the original AI: if you force a console-running AI to fight back, they typically won't resume the alarm-running job when they have the chance. --'''geyser''' | :"This is a mistake". The point of Loser's aproach is that AI will interrupt their console-running job only when the player is about to take advantage of them (e.g., tackle them - Konoko still dashes faster than anyone except for Ninjas - or backbreak them at the console). They will then resume running as soon as they've put some distance between them and the player (e.g., by knocking the player down and/or retreating). This should much more consistent than the way it happens with the original AI: if you force a console-running AI to fight back, they typically won't resume the alarm-running job when they have the chance. --'''geyser''' | ||
| Line 167: | Line 173: | ||
I can see one bug tough - shooting edges of such a glass panel will make it "float" in the thin air. --'''Loser''' | I can see one bug tough - shooting edges of such a glass panel will make it "float" in the thin air. --'''Loser''' | ||
:Heh, that bug alone is a good reason ''not'' to do it in the way you suggest. Also, if "only the corner is shattered", surely, the shattered section won't be rectangular? The only thing that will look good is a dense [[wikipedia: | :Heh, that bug alone is a good reason ''not'' to do it in the way you suggest. Also, if "only the corner is shattered", surely, the shattered section won't be rectangular? The only thing that will look good is a dense [[wikipedia:Curtain wall|curtain wall]]: little glass panels and criss-crossed beams between them; but then you'll complain about grenades and such not damaging the (thin) framework ^_^. There is an alternative approach - to somehow make some projectiles go through glass without breaking it (basically creating a decal and moving on). I'd say that's definitely possible. But - scope-creepy ^_^ --'''geyser''' | ||
::Just a reminder that this page isn't about what should be in the Edition; that page is [[AE:Bug-fix and feature requests|here]]. This page is for items that may or may not be in scope for the AE, but even if they aren't, could still be done separately from the AE. In other words, people can suggest anything and everything here. | ::Just a reminder that this page isn't about what should be in the Edition; that page is [[AE:Bug-fix and feature requests|here]]. This page is for items that may or may not be in scope for the AE, but even if they aren't, could still be done separately from the AE. In other words, people can suggest anything and everything here. | ||