Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions

::::::::::::Not a bad suggestion about the aliens' occasional stirrings leading to an increase in phase activity. I was aware of the issue with ocean floor subduction (see [[Oni2:Slaves_of_War/Story]] and search for "ocean floor"). I considered it a positive, as even if there was an alien civilization down there at the time of the P-Tr boundary, it would be buried by now, thus explaining why we haven't noticed its ruins. In fact, rather than our needing to explain how all the aliens could still be alive, the continual overturning of the ocean floor could actually explain why there are so few of them left, as I desired to be the case in my story. Perhaps only some of their sleep chambers have stayed out of trouble and survived this long. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 03:49, 3 July 2020 (CEST)

:::::::::::::My point above is that ''all'' of Panthalassa's seabed has been buried in sediment and either subducted and molten, or exposed and eroded. So if they were indeed a civilization of builders -- as opposed to primitive organisms (my suggestion) --, then, on one hand, some of their architecture ''might'' have been preserved to some extent along with Silurian/Devonian/Carboniferous/Permian fossils, and that's also where we'd find "sleep chambers" if there were any -- in ruins or fossilized (depending on whether the chambers are organic or not) -- and their occupants. Maybe those chambers that weren't subducted (and ended up in fossil layers) were made of phase-enhanced concrete and steel, and thus a few Diluvians may still be able to break free, say, from [[wp:Alnif|Alnif]] (which hosts fossils of trilobites from the Cambrian all the way to the late Permian). On the other hand, no matter how you look at it, if a once great civilization went so far as to build sleep chambers that would carry them through the ages, so that they could roam the Earth once more -- and then most of them were crushed by tectonics -- that would be a rather [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw silly way to go] for those who didn't make it. Would it not? --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2020 (CEST)

::::::::::::::My notion, though I didn't spell it out, was that their sleep chambers were mobile and took measures to save their occupants. But yes, they could just be hibernating and occasionally waking up and moving. Seems unlikely they would last that long without some kind of artificial preservation, though, considering even the mountains are younger than they would be…. Unlike you, I never envisioned the Diluvians as being godlike in intellect, so I see no reason why they would have to be broadly successful at surviving millions of years in stasis. They may never have thought they'd have to wait that long to awaken. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST)

::::::::::::::To be clearer on my mental image of the Daomen, I was thinking of something highly structured and differentiated that could have existed on land. Placing such a creature in the pre-Permian era would mean it would have to be something like a [[wp:Dinocephalia|dinocephalian]], the lost forebear of the dinosaurs. The main problems with that idea are the fact that reptiles of this era were more or less 100% quadrupedal, which means no "hands" freed up to do things like make tools, plus most of them had tiny craniums and so were likely unintelligent (some Moschops had [[wp:File:Tapinocephalidae_-_Moschops_capensis.JPG|huge craniums]] but were very much gravity-bound to stand on all four of their feet). However, the timing is right (middle-Permian) to explain the sudden disappearance of coal and other suspiciously-simultaneous events like the sudden rise in CO2 and the acidification of the oceans (read [[wp:Guadalupian|this short page]] for some intriguing detail on the time period where the dinocephalians had their sudden rise and fall in the fossil record). Maybe the "Daomen" were descendants of the earlier [[wp:Troodontidae|troodons]] which we haven't found fossils for because of the nature of their extinction and the survivors' move to the oceans. There's some [https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/inside-the-mind-of-a-dinosaur-2/ very recent evidence] for the tyrannosaurs being a lot smarter than we realized, having large brains for their ilk. This would include the T. rex, but also the intriguingly human-sized [[wp:Timurlengia|Timurlengia]]. Note that these were bipedal reptiles, albeit with frustratingly short forelimbs. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:48, 9 July 2020 (CEST)

:::::::Indeed I meant the Virgin Birth thing, although I wouldn't say the Immaculate Conception has no relation whatsoever. It's the same Mary, and there were discussions about how maybe the IC wasn't just about the miraculous lack of original sin, but also about the lack of personal sin (by choice) right up to the Virgin Birth, and how maybe Mary was conceived without Anne and Joachim actually doing it (or liking it)... But you're still right, of course, I meant the Virgin Birth. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 10:36, 8 June 2020 (CEST)

:::::::P.S. You may find it interesting that in Russian (as opposed to other languages), the term "Nyeporochnoye zachatiye" -- i.e. "immaculate (lit. sinless) conception" -- is used both for Christ and for Mary, and by default it's used for Christ. There is no separate term for "virgin birth" or "virgin conception". In Latin there's "Virginalis conceptio" (Christ) as opposed to "Immaculata conceptio" (Mary). That sort of explains why my Soviet-Russian mind naturally picked the words "Immaculate Conception" up there. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:05, 12 June 2020 (CEST)

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