Talk:New levels

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geyser: Pathfinding works great in the arena. I went up the stairs, the AI followed. I jumped down and the AI came down the stairs. We need an OTA for this level :-)


EdT 14:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Is that an enthusiast speaking, or a beta tester? You should have tried going under the stairs, or jumping down backwards, while looking at the AI. In the current version I've fixed the stairs, but the BNV height still needs to be increased. Until then, the AI will become stuck whenever you hold-jump-flip as Konoko, hold-jump as a ninja, or shapeshift to Mutant Muro (not to mention the vanishing ninja dodge moves). geyser 14:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

As for OTA, I'm really not sure. At this point it needs a new core logic, and ideally it should be interfaced with Flatline (maybe more like a Flatline script than an Oni script), but you Mac folks will probably want a standalone OTA. Just do it yourselves, then. As for me, I intend to use the arena for a demonstration of advanced lighting techniques (radiosity and/or lightmapping), and then I shall move on to other things. geyser 14:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

It was the enthusiast in me that was commenting :-) I'll modify an OTA script to work in the arena, it should be fun. Now to see the advanced lighting techniques, will that require the modified Oni engine? EdT
Not sure what you mean by "modified" Oni engine. Neo's Motoko? In the original engine, vertex shading is glitchy, and "my" lightmaps sorta work but not quite. AFAIK, Neo's Motoko fixes vertex shading, but does not make "my" lightmaps work any better. So I guess the answer is: wait and see. I'm not sure how long though. geyser 00:25, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the lightmaps, no flickering at 1024x768, but there is dithering. EdT

I'll need an explanation of what you mean by "dithering", ideally a screenshot. There's not supposed to be any dithering for either flavor. The 4-bit version will have wikipedia:posterization a.k.a. banding. Is that what you mean? In any case, try and get the 8-bit version to work (you must byte-swap the BGRA channels to ARGB, if I remember correctly). geyser 22:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, the correct term was banding :-) I will try swapping the channels, next time I have some free time. EdT
No hurry for the 8-bit version, the only difference about it should be the lack of banding. Apparently we've established that the Z-fighting (flickering) is gone. Now we probably need to have OniSplit consolidate the mesh automatically upon import (e.g., snap vertex coordinates to the nearest sixteenth-of-an-integer, or something like that), so that the polygons and their lightmapped duplicates coincide exactly. We also need to disable collision for the lightmapped mesh. I will try to consolidate the arena manually ASAP, and upload a flawless lightmapped version for you guys to use in videos etc. Tutorials will come later. geyser 01:46, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

8-bit Lightmap Screenshot:


4-bit Lightmap Screenshot:


Both are at 1024x768

Note: here's the channel swapping to make 8 bit work on the Mac:

R to A
G to R
B to G
A to B


Thanks for testing all this. We shall need a confirmation of those channel-swapping rules. Ideally, you should download THIS, load it in Oni as-is (level 5) and take a clear screenshot of the central "pillar". geyser 21:07, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Here it is:


Note: The above channel swapping applies to the PPC version of Oni. We have tested RGBA8888 textures in the Intel Oni build and it behaves like the PC version.

Your 8-bit lightmap level with the PC version of Konoko HD without any modifications.



Thanks. Just two more things about these "type-7 textures" (I used to call them BGRA8888 and OniSplit calls them -format:bgra32, but you call them RGBA8888, which is apparently what they really are...):
  1. Apparently the Daodan, Neo's Motoko, and Intel Oni all read the four bytes of the pixel data as RGBA (the PPC version of Oni byte-swaps the data and effectively reads it as ABGR). However, OniSplit stores it (incorrectly) as BGRA, so the textures aren't WYSIWIG even on PC.
  2. Can you see a difference between THIS and THIS for PPC Oni? (and for Intel Oni?) It's the "little-Endian" flag of TXMP; if it works, it will be easier for OniSplit to accommodate the PPC version (once it fixes the BGRA order to RGBA). --geyser 22:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and another thing. What is the proportion of Mac folks (I mean Oni fans, of course) that do not have an Intel Mac at this point? If it's negligible, maybe we should stop bothering with supporting the PPC version at all? By "we" I mean not only Neo, but also myself, because I'd be the one supplying lightmaps, and obviously I don't want you to swap the channels manually for every texture of every release. But if all the key folks have Intel Macs, that means I can relax a bit, right? --geyser 22:59, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
  1. I will test this soon, after touching base with EdT.
  2. Very few Mac users do not have Intel machines, and the ones that don't are planning to buy them. We still have to support PPC because there really isn't any Intel build yet (beyond a tiny tester group), but I think the days of the good ol' RISC architecture are numbered. As soon as the Intel build is released, we can probably drop support for PPC without any public outcry occurring. --Iritscen 23:36, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Here's the comparison screenshots:



Thanks. It's good to see that the little-Endian flag (ON in "BGRA", OFF in "BGRAbis") has an effect on both Mac versions; like I said before, this will make the PPC version much easier to support OniSplit-side (upon -import).
  1. Intel Oni behaves the same way as Daodan and Neo's Motoko, so there's nothing to fix there. The only things that need fixing, in two different ways, are the PPC engine (force or un-force an extra byte-swap for this texture type) and OniSplit (make it store the texture as RGBA instead of BGRA).
  2. Good. Then, as far as lightmaps are concerned, I'll just forget about PPC, and let you handle the public outcry if any.
geyser 01:15, 18 November 2010 (UTC)