Oni2:A Storyline/PostSummary1

Pages 1-15 (the first half) of the thread "A Storyline for Oni 2" from OCF are summarized below, for eventual further summarization on the Oni2:Storyline page. The summary of pages 16-30 is found HERE.

A storyline for Oni 2
(unimportant posts = "--")
(my notes in square brackets)

Post #	Post Link	Poster	Keywords	Summary
1	here	geyser	Daodan	Introduction; "What does the Chrysalis want?"
2	here	TNT	Daodan	Maybe nothing; Daodan just wants to survive. "Are you suggesting that the Daodan is sentient?"
3	here	geyser	Daodan	"Yes."
4	here	owldreamer	Project	"Start learning how to create game levels from scratch before writing a storyline."
5	here	Script 10000	--	--
6	here	geyser	Project	"What I'll post here can be just a literary effort. [...] Or, it can be a full-scale game project." Mentions that he has level designs on paper.
7	here	Kumo	Project, MainChar	What tools would we use? What if the game is told from the POV of a friend of Mai's? The Chrysalis is being used as a cure, but only now are the dangers becoming known, and she seeks out Mai for answers.
8	here	owldreamer	Project	Recommends Wings3D, Cinema4D CE 6, Nendo, Mirai. Asks to see geyser's level designs.
9	here	geyser	Project, Settings	Also mentions Blender. Designs aren't in a format ready to post yet. Training level could be set in a natural cave, and player is helped to "remember" the controls and their abilities. Some settings: Vansam City, under control of government, not totally post-apocalyptic; a dingy nightclub in a warehouse; a lounge in a skyscraper; various streets and suburbs; a "man hunt" in a mall closed for the night; and lots of natural settings with trees and grass. Likes idea of chaos in serene nature settings.
10	here	geyser	MainChar, Mai, Gameplay, Daodan, Vehicles	Mai would not have the answers for the Daodan because she was ignorant in Oni 1. Mai should be main character since she has the appeal and the powers; Chrysalis use would be opposed by public; gov't puts project under wraps, some people try to investigate. Wishes for drivable vehicles, palpable superpowers (breaking stuff with fists, super-high jumps, throwing energy balls), capable allies in combat, ability to disguise as allies, parts of game where you have to wear disguise. Mentions that some of this is on Pierre's to-do list for KP. Elaborates on "chenille" referring to restructuring of the body's internals while the outside remains the same (like a chrysalis) until it's time for the new being to emerge.
11	here	TNT	MainChar	Likes Kumo's idea of main character not being Mai. Super-powered playable Mai would be overpowered. If the gov't is not using Chrysalises yet, then that's why the main char. seeks Mai out.
12	here	Pierre	Gameplay, Vehicles	Vehicles are easy to code, but of limited usefulness; would rather drive a "battle hardsuit from Bubblegum Crisis" using ZOE 2's controls. Laments lack of artists. Affirms that he has done, or will do, the other things that geyser listed, except for allies and disguises. Overpower mode should be gauge-limited, not time-limited.
13	here	ssg	--	--
14	here	geyser	Gameplay, Daodan, Mai	Mai won't be overpowered because she'll be matched up with many strong opponents and weapons. They will be easy to defeat one-on-one, but they'll be attacking in groups to make it challenging. "Butterfly" Mai should be similar to her original form, rather than uglifying her like Imago Muro. Maybe a hair color change when she transforms. Admits that Imago Muro was pretty overpowered because he was mostly invulnerable and reaffirms desire to time-limit Mai's powers.
15	here	Kumo	MainChar, Gameplay, Mai, Daodan	Acknowledges that Mai won't know much about the Chrysalis either, but she is searching for the truth while main char. searches for Mai. Suggests that they only meet at the last boss fight, and that maybe the game be playable with both characters. Maybe gov't hasn't put Chrysalises to public use yet, but is experimenting on its police officers. What if limit on Daodan use is not health (overhealing with hypos) but rather "damage taken and time fought", allowing mid-battle transformations? Changing Mai's hair color is blasphemous. Using disguises would slow down an action game.
16	here	geyser	Gameplay, MainChar, Vehicles, Daodan, Mai	Mai's hair shape should stay the same, but something like a color change is needed for the transformation (makes reference to DBZ's Super Saiyan transformation). "Last boss fight" - you mean, fight against Mai? And wouldn't main char. be much weaker than Mai? Likes his suggestion of a more adventure-esque side story with a female investigator. "Land vehicle" he mentioned earlier would be like Konoko's bike in Oni 1; maybe you can jump onto it and ride it hands-free. Is fine with idea of gauge-limited overpower mode, but wants gauge to increase over course of game. Elaborates on interactive environment: kicking boxes, climbing ropes and some walls, breaking some objects with bare fists and some only when in overpower, and some only with heavy weapons. Also taking injury from falling down stairs (triggering rag doll physics), from being driven into wall by attack, or from running into closed door; suggests ways to prevent this from being an annoyance. Fast-moving character has to lean into turns or else they will slide/fall (at least when on bike), and with proper velocity one can run around the walls of a room. References racing games that use friction and "local gravity" to allow loop-de-loops and such.
17	here	Kumo	Gameplay, MainChar, Daodan, Mai	Likes idea of DBZ-style power-up scene. Clarifies that he meant fighting alongside Mai. In response to main char. being weaker, maybe (again, referencing DBZ) the newer generation of Chrysalis reaches maturity faster. Likes wall-running idea, suggests using it for counter-attacks a la Double Dragon [I couldn't find video of that, but here's a video of Double Dragon III, a game that predated Street Fighter II -- some of these moves look pretty familiar ^_^]. But wall flips would be hard to do without being able to see behind you. Suggests that Mai's hair grow when she transforms, and float in the air.
18	here	geyser	Gameplay, Daodan, Hasegawa	A "proximity map" in corner of screen would let you see who is behind you. Asks Pierre if a black hole gun is doable. Long floating hair would obscure player's view. Did Hasegawa really start working with Daodan only after Jamie died? Was only months or days [actually, Konoko was orphaned at age 3, which gives us up to 3 years between Jamie dying and Mai being taken from her dad] before Syndicate raided his lab and found his two Chrysalises. Perhaps he lied in his diary.
19	here	owldreamer	Project, Vehicles	Points out that natural settings are hard to make, hence the advantage to knowing game development before writing a story. Posts pic of his Hikari model [without naming her, causing confusion]. Fighting with a hardsuit hand-to-hand would be boring.
20	here	Alloc	--	--
21	here	geyser	Project	Acknowledges difficulty of natural settings, but would be content with how Serious Engine did it three years ago [2002]. And anyway, fun is most important factor, not graphics. Likes some of owldreamer's model, but arms are too small. Is it supposed to be Mai?
22	here	owldreamer	Project, MainChar	Is not Mai. Thinks original Mai model should be used, or else a new character be created for sequel. Arms are following standard anime proportions. Hair was difficult to simulate. Will convert to in-game model when done. Doesn't think much of sequel having powered-up Mai.
23	here	Onifan	--	--
24	here	Pierre	Gameplay, Vehicles	Agrees with notion of DBZ-style power-up sequence. Explains difficulty of "local gravity". Isn't sure what geyser wants from a black hole gun. Fails to see issue with strong character needing strong opponents. Fighting in suit would be basically identical to regular melee fighting, but flashier, so why would it be boring?
25	here	Pierre	Gameplay	Replying to geyser's earlier wish list: has already implemented kicking boxes; climbing would need new anims; breaking walls presents AI pathfinding difficulties; rag dolls for falling down stairs not advisable because it's too hard to go from rag doll back to canned animation; thinks taking damage from running into walls and doors would get annoying.
26	here	geyser	Gameplay	Has less of a concern with Hikari's hair than her face looking plastic. Wonders if kicked boxes in KP impact characters? Black hole gun effect is mainly a visual one, not physics. Can't rag doll-to-canned anims be interpolated?
27	here	Pierre	Gameplay	Yes, kicked boxes can hurt characters. Interpolation looks awful.
28	here	geyser	Settings, MainChar, Hikari, Mai	Hadn't realized Hikari was an SLD, that explains the face. How tall is she compared to Mai? Just read owldreamer's proposal for an Oni 2. Likes it, but it's adventurey, not actiony; should be a separate game, maybe with Hikari and Mai glimpsing each other throughout game and meeting at the end. Taking place 20 years after Oni is what he had in mind, too, but not with Mai dead, but in fact the same apparent age as in Oni.
29	here	Kumo	Gameplay, Mai	Didn't want action-less story, maybe there are street fights. Also wants Mai to be alive for sequel. Agrees with notion of two separate games.
30	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan	As far as what Chrysalis "wants", aren't the Chrysalises just hyper-evolved versions of the hosts? Wonders if more than two Chrysalises were made.
31	here	owldreamer	Mai, Hikari	Doesn't plan for Mai to actually be dead, just to shock the player and then have Mai show up later. Hikari is same height as Mai, for story reasons and so that she can use Mai's animations.
32	here	geyser	Daodan, OtherChar, Screaming Cells	Reiterates that Daodan is a separate entity that replaces the host. Points to mention of its "unearthly" abilities. It could be a "sentient cancer from outer space". From "another dimension"... wherever Screaming Cells and Mukade's Devil Star are from. Chrysalis is what results when this alien lifeform comes into contact with one of us. Its cells are like stem cells that don't lose their totipotence and which split rapidly and want to replace other cells. Smarter than cancer because it doesn't kill its host. Perhaps Daodan comes from superior, immaterial beings who want to evolve material life to serve some purpose of their own... references Asimov [is referring to "Does A Bee Care?", one of my favorite Asimov stories. Here's a crappy summary of that short story, but you're better off reading the real thing than spoiling it for yourself.] Muro's monstrous transformation was a result of being unstable (noting the talk of "stability" with regards to Mai in the story); he developed too fast. Daodan has to gather info about host by finishing an initial transformation before it can settle down and adapt at a "standby" rate. Aura in overpower mode is visible aspect of the original immaterial Daodan being, which continues to guide the process. Unlike host, it's immortal. Responding to TTK, says that there are three or four prime symbiotes (counts Barabas and Mukade). Asks why owldreamer why Hikari should simply re-use Mai's animations. Is his Syndicate leader a Daodan Imago? Asks for opinions on cel shading.
33	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan, Mukade, Barabas, Mai	Explains his point that if the Daodan has become Mai, then it still *is* Mai, mentally at least. Physically, food consumption should be less since the Daodan must be drawing energy from more than food anyway. Mai and Muro were the only prime symbiotes, based off Hasegawa Chrysalises. Mukade and Barabas are Muro's attempts at modified Daodans; Baba is just strong, whereas the ninja is a "much more complete package". Shouldn't be possible to communicate with Daodan as it is analogous to a disease, but perhaps one can still guide its development. Likes cel shading, but wants whatever style is best for the story.
34	here	TNT	Daodan, Barabas	Wants cel shading for Oni 2. Reminds geyser that he suggested once that Barabas' Chrysalis is a clone of Muro's, thus making him not a prime symbiote.
35	here	geyser	Daodan, Kerr, Barabas, Mukade, Mai	Doesn't agree that Daodan simply becomes a new Mai. Kerr's "expression of your true nature" speech was mostly a hopeful attempt at being reassuring. Points to her violent expression when in overpower mode as evidence of another "nature" than Mai's taking root. Agrees that Daodan has another source of energy besides food. Daodan should at least be "smart", if not "intelligent", seeing as it alters the insides of the host without changing the outside. Makes host hard to kill. Must have a purpose. If Screamers are sentient, this thing must be a genius. Thinks that some of Muro's biomass was grafted to Barabas to mutate him. That means Barabas is not prime, but Mukade must be, considering how "perfect" his abilities are, and his mental connection with Mai that she doesn't have with Shinnie or Muro.
36	here	Gatkowski	TCTF, Syndicate, Themes	Has been writing fanfics that focus on the characters and their back story because they're underdeveloped. In his ideas for Oni 2, TCTF and Syndicate have to join forces to save humanity. Points out that a good storyline can also be based on characters and personalities.
37	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan, Themes, Mukade, Muro	Not sure that Mukade is perfect (he could be a freak under the mask), or that his abilities all come from Daodan. He doesn't have Muro's and Mai's aura. Reiterates that if a complete copy is being made, memories and all, then Imago host should still be themselves, unless they're "broken" in some way "like Muro". But perhaps another stage of evolution kicks in after the first one.... Doubts that Screamers or Daodans are all that intelligent based on their actions. Compares humans in storyline to cancer; both exploit their resources until the host (or planet) is dead. Perhaps Daodan represents a change in attitude to living in harmony with nature.
38	here	geyser	Daodan, Mukade, Mai, Themes, Screaming Cells	Points out that Mukade doesn't show his face because he's a ninja, not necessarily because he's a freak. Lack of aura is because he doesn't go into overpower mode like Mai and Muro. Points out that a copy is never an original, by definition. The Imago host is upgraded in all ways. If it doesn't have the same biological needs as a human, then why should Mai's motivations or way of thinking remain the same? Then again, the brain remains "whole" even as it is replaced by the Daodan, so there's a certain kind of common identity between host and Daodan. Explains that "sentient" in context of Screamers doesn't mean "human-like intellect", just feeling and responding to sensation. Thinks, however, that the aura is what separates the Daodan from the merely sentient Screamer, and represents a guiding entity. Story would be much less interesting without this kind of intelligent design. Agrees with idea of another stage of evolution after Imago. Responding to Gatkowski, feels that there is not enough room in an action game for a focus on personalities [...?!......?!?!]. Wants story to be light, with back story and scientific details hidden in optional places like consoles and diary. Should have some humor in there, too.
39	here	Gatkowski	--	--
40	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan, Mukade	Lack of overpower for Mukade proves his point about Mukade not being a prime symbiote. Agrees that an Imago symbiote would be different, but they would still remember being human. Where *does* Daodan gets its energy from? Still thinks Daodan is little smarter than cells. The aura could be the upgraded "ghost" of the host. As far as introducing an "ETs with a purpose" angle, prefers that Oni be left open to interpretation. Asks if anyone has read the Dark Horse comics, and if they explain any more of Oni's abbreviated story [HA!].
41	here	geyser	Daodan, Themes	Situation with Daodan replacing someone cell by cell is more complex than a clone killing his original; at what point does one individual cease to be when he is replaced gradually by another? Suggests that TTK's "ghost" aura is the actual "oni" that Brent had in mind. Agrees that some openness is good, and appreciates the room for interpretation that it allows in a sequel. No, comics don't really explain anything in the game's story.
42	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan	Difference in geyser's clone example is that the clone has a different past; the question there is "if two fundamentally identical people live different lives, would they end up differently"? It goes back to "nature vs. nurture" because their nature is the exact same but their "nurture" was different. Daodan situation is the reverse: the nurture is shared, but the nature is very different.
43	here	geyser	Daodan	Disagrees, Daodan does not share host's past. Any current/future stimuli are shared by the Chrysalis and host, and the Chrysalis is stronger so it's "hogging" the stimuli. But let's not get too philosophical about the nature of Mai, let's just think of her as upgraded for now and continue working on understanding the details of Oni's story before inventing new facts. Why not talk about Mukade for a while? Expresses enthusiasm for coming Serious Engine II as an ideal engine for Oni 2.
44	here	TheTurnipKing	Mukade, Barabas, Shinatama	We know nothing about Mukade, not even his (?) gender. Perhaps he's a Daodan host, perhaps he's a mutated clone of Konoko. Mukade and Barabas are probably both Chrysalis experiments, but Barabas less successful, and augmented by technology. Shinatama's death was symbolic because she had Konoko's brain engrams, and it marks the point at which Konoko goes rogue. And why does TCTF only then decide to kill Konoko, when she loses her SLD and engram-mate?
45	here	geyser	Mukade	Actually, Shinatama's death *was* TCTF's first attempt to kill Konoko, because she had that convenient Xiox device in her that they could use. Thinks there is enough info on Mukade to speculate with, esp. considering the case of the missing Hasegawa.
46	here	guido	Project	Focusing on Oni's missing pieces is a lost cause. We should think up new scenarios, designs, and ideas that we want to see, and then work out how to make them happen as part of the story.
47	here	guido	Art	[Posts drawings to illustrate what he means, but images and links are gone. Probably posted some of these.]
48	here	guido	Art	[Ibid.]
49	here	Script10000	--	--
50	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan, Griffin	What does "Daodan" mean, anyway? And why did Griffin try to kill Konoko at that point when she hadn't done much yet?
51	here	geyser	Daodan, Settings, Griffin	Griffin had seen enough to know that the Daodan host was unpredictable and dangerous. "I can't allow her transformation to continue uncontrolled." Look up Daodan as "dao-dan". Like's guido's sketches but they seem to take place in a post-apocalypse shortly after Oni, whereas he, owldreamer and Pierre want a sequel set about 20 years later in a more controlled environment that is better suited for a melee action game.
52	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan, Griffin, Iron Demon	But how does Griffin expect to stop Muro if he kills Konoko? And Konoko is mostly safe by this point and can still be monitored. Maybe Iron Demon was his backup plan? "Daodan" means "missile" in Chinese?
53	here	guido	Pollution, Settings, Syndicate, Iron Demon, Society, Barabas, Themes	Konoko makes it clear at the end of Oni that the atmospheric damage is not going to be reversed, so even after 20 years, order is not a sure thing. Thinks that geyser et al. are brushing that major issue under the rug when they wish for a stable setting for their game. Also, the Syndicate draws its strength from the underprivileged masses living outside the cities, therefore after the fall of the cities the struggle between authorities and Syndicate will only grow and chaos will increase. Finally, 20 years passing will disconnect the story's atmosphere from Oni 1. Points to Bungie's trend with other sequels -- in Myth and Halo, a single charismatic individual survives destruction to bring about a new order. Also, game doesn't have to be set in a wasteland; half-ruined cities, secret installations, even offices in new cities can be settings. Simply doesn't see how post-apocalyptic setting limits potential of an action game. Describes scenes wherein Mai runs from TCTF recovery squads and the Iron Demon battles its way through a ruined building out into the street under a toxic rain. Questions for a sequel: (A) Might there have been other Daodan research teams, or someone who picked up where Kerr left off?; (B) Who financed Griffin and who investigated his supposed corruption [referring to this console]; (C) Might anyone at the TCTF who knew Konoko want to join her?; (D) Did Muro have any rivals who survived him at the Syndicate? Perhaps now they are seeking Konoko, as a threat or as a guide; (E) Did Hasegawa meet "other relevant persons" during his captivity in the Syndicate?; (F) Mukade could communicate with his Daodan and with Mai mentally [actually, the game only says that Konoko can "feel" Mukade and that Mukade can "feel" his Chrysalis taking him over; no actual language use is implied], so perhaps he was a more advanced prototype of Hasegawa's; was this an attempt to attain the equilibrium or control that the TCTF wanted?; (G) Perhaps Barabas was only KOed by Konoko and is imprisoned in Oni 2, and sought out by Konoko for some answers.
54	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan	Perhaps Daodan experiments from Hasegawa's lab escaped, and entered the food chain, spreading Daodan DNA?
55	here	TNT	Daodan, Barabas, Mukade	Konoko, Muro, Mukade and Barabas all have red shields that protect them, so perhaps this comes from the Daodan. Barabas' appears after his first defeat, so perhaps he's still evolving.
56	here	owldreamer	--	--
57	here	TheTurnipKing	Daodan, Barabas, Mukade	Suggests that Hasegawa experimented on animals, which was the earliest source of Daodan DNA. There's also the "original" Daodan, not primed with DNA like the Chrysalises in Mai and Muro. "Barabas and Mukade were most likely based on Muro's Daodan data, though with further refinements" by Hasegawa or the Syndicate. "It seems likely that all of the Daodans 'in play' are based on Hasegawa's Chrysalises."
58	here	geyser	Pollution, Settings, Syndicate, TCTF, WCG, Mai	Contrary to guido's suggestion, it could be a fast process to establish a new order under martial law, especially when the people are busy burying their dead. Wonders about "clean air" posters in airport when air seems to be fine. WCG must have begun a PR campaign to convince people that they cared about environment, and strengthened the ACCs, after Jamie died. Hasegawa anticipated a cataclysm that never came until Konoko blew up the ACCs. Perhaps she missed a few. Anyway, mankind is resilient and inventive; we would find ways to make the air decent in at least confined areas, and in 20 years the city streets should be clean enough that only a mask is needed. Post-apocalypses are dull and difficult for gameplay. Also, let's not focus on just TCTF vs. Syndicate. What about the rest of the WCG's forces? Questions guido's "fact" about the Syndicate drawing strength from the people outside the cities. Can people even live outside the cities? Syndicate won't mess around with old-fashioned crime after Cataclysm; they'll make a grab for true power, having been prepared for the poison air scenario. They just need a charismatic and intelligent leader, more like Mukade than Muro. TCTF was never a match for Syndicate to begin with. How is WCG governed; dictatorship, council, democracy? There is a Directorate above Griffin. WCG allows free speech and protests and works to improve air, so they don't seem too bad. But they're wusses (demilitarized?). They have no ability to match the Syndicate, as far as we can see. TCTF just does enough on a low level to make the public think things are under control. Therefore, being prepared and well-armed, the Syndicate will steamroll the WCG after the Cataclysm. WCG will probably blame Mai for Cataclysm and she will become World Enemy #1. So Mai will have to run away. Also, her conscience will plague her for what she did and she may just have to "sleep it off" for 20 years.
59	here	Alloc	Mai	Why say that the Cataclysm is Mai's fault? She just read a console and then fought Muro.
60	here	guido	Art	[Another broken art link.]
61	here	geyser	Mai, Settings, Hikari, Pollution, Project, Vehicles, Muro, Barabas, Mukade, Daodan	Tells Alloc to play the end of Oni again. Asks Guido why Hikari would fight Mai. Doesn't want to set story in post-apocalypse. It will simply be mission after mission of bunkers and dead people and ruined city streets. Doesn't think that the TCTF chasing Mai through a city is compelling because she can out-run everyone, especially if they have to wear protective gear. The Iron Demon wouldn't do too well under acid rain, either. Does not see much potential for action when Mai can hide anywhere and outpace everybody, plus why would she be running around ruined cities, anyway? And who says cities have to be in ruins, for that matter? All that happened is that the ACCs, which are outside the cities [actually, the manual states that the ACCs are in the cities], blew up and then the air went bad. Ghost cities, yes; ruins, no. Suggests that Oni 2 have 30 missions and 100+ hours of gameplay. Doesn't think that 20 years would be too distant from Oni 1; we can revisit old settings. Maybe the only green areas are under domes now. And that 20 years of technological advancement cuts both ways: how can we introduce new weapons and Mai's fancy new bike if Oni 2 takes place right after Oni? But perhaps a couple opening levels could resume right after Oni 1, as Mai realizes what she's done, wandering around the cities. Then she falls into a "kind of painful trance/hibernation" for 20 years, and wakes up in a cave inside the Wilderness, unsure of who or what she is. She gradually notices that she's "different" and has to learn about the Daodan and her abilities again. In contrast to this player-friendly approach, picking up with after Cataclysm means that she is getting hunted by mobs of enemies and shot at, and the player might not know Oni's story and be totally overwhelmed. If anything, that scenario might make a good unlockable "prologue" after beating the game. Doubts that Muro or Barabas survived Oni. They may not have been killed by Mai, but the TCTF would have taken their bodies and finished them off, maybe autopsied them. Mukade, however, was KOed away from the reaches of the TCTF. Shoots down Guido's ideas of Mukade having "equilibrium" (the Daodan replaces you) and "telepathy" (they can sense each other, it's mutual between Daodan hosts). However, Mukade is probably a very advanced symbiote, maybe more so than Mai and Muro. Also negates Guido's suggestion of Griffin being "financed" or "corrupt"; the console says no such thing.
62	here	Alloc	--	--
63	here	geyser	Mai, Daodan, Mukade, Pollution	Points out strange behaviors on Mai's part: (1) "Killing" Mukade instead of asking him questions (and who's to say that the disc he drops is the data she wanted? Maybe it's planted by Muro/Mukade), and (2) blowing up the ACCs instead of finding another way, like "re-re-purposing" them. Wasn't the situation under control, since no Cataclysm happened since Jamie's death? Muro only planned to gradually make the atmosphere more toxic to blackmail the world, and Mai made things way worse. Questions why there are "too many stations [to disarm] before Muro activates them" unless there are more we didn't see or they keep re-activating after she leaves. Mai also seems to think the ends justify the means in getting WCG to acknowledge the situation (which she just made 100x worse!), and is naive for thinking that everyone can simply be implanted with Chrysalises. Plans to further explain Mukade's link to Mai since no one is getting it.
64	here	TNT	TCTF, Syndicate, Pollution	Isn't sure that TCTF actually knew how strong Syndicate was; they didn't believe in Barabas' strength [per this console]. Manual remarks that the elite Red Strikers are 'only a rumor'. TCTF may still have known they were out-matched (perhaps that's what Iron Demon was for). Additionally, the Syndicate was able to create adult SLDs; they had the advantage of none of the legal restrictions that the police had. Also, who says they only had to fight the Syndicate? Reminds geyser that Hasegawa had seen that the pollution was indeed going to overwhelm the ACCs. Not sure that all ACCs were destroyed.
65	here	Gatkowski	Mukade, Daodan, Mai, Pollution	Mukade and Mai only sense one another because they're Daodan hosts, no further connection is needed to explain that. The reason why Mukade "fails" to get away from Mai is not conspiratorial in nature; his mission is to get away, but his "blood burns" at the thought of fighting Konoko, like a martial artist responding to another's strength with a desire to conquer that strength. Isn't sure that Syndicate knew as much about Konoko as geyser assumes. Who says Mukade would or could have told Konoko anything? Her fear probably got the better of her, as well. Doubts that ACC's reversal was reversible, Muro had no need to be able to reverse things. Thinks that Konoko is strong enough to take the hatred of society because she knows that her choice was necessary in order to save the majority of humanity.
66	here	Seventeen Seconds	Themes	Believes that story-writing process should focus less on details, and secondary characters like Mukade, and more on "archetypes and motivations and how characters fit together". Bend the continuity to make a more compelling story and you'll get more suspension of disbelief and emotional involvement from the player. Save the heavy details for the console text.
67	here	owldreamer	Themes	Agrees with 17sec.
68	here	geyser	Mukade	Doesn't consider Mukade to be secondary. Plans him to be main character besides Mai that carries over from Oni 1. Doesn't want people to have to suspend their belief because of a sloppy story, wants to build a careful, consistent world. So we need to work out all these details now, not later. At the same time, agrees that we should keep the opening of Oni 2 simple and only later fill in details. Does care about characters; has idea for Mai's best "friend" [referencing Mr. Big].
69	here	geyser	TCTF, Syndicate, Mukade, Hasegawa, Griffin	TCTF didn't believe in Barabas' abilities but they knew he was an "exceptional" Enforcer. The Syndicate *is* the only enemy of the TCTF's, they're the whole worldwide Network of criminals. Mai could feel Mukade not just because they are Daodan hosts, but because they share genetic material in common, even more than with her sibling, Muro [he's hinting that Mukade is Daddy]. TCTF is cowardly because they only fight Syndicate on small scale and "quit the game when it gets rough". Konoko was not a weapon to bring down the Syndicate, she was just a "toy" for Griffin.
70	here	geyser	Mr. Big, Vehicles	[Posts links to pages about the Serious Engine II.] Mr. Big is agile as well as strong and has lots of personality, as evidenced by his T-shirts. His weapons fire all kinds of different shots depending on ammo type picked up, and he drives a levitating high-speed Humvee.
71	here	TNT	TCTF, Griffin	TCTF wasn't cowardly, they just didn't want to face the Syndicate head-on if it was stronger. Griffin hadn't "given up", he'd sent strike team to get Shinatama; they arrive at the end of the level. Shouldn't make Griffin sound so evil.
72	here	guido	Iron Demon, Society, Mai, WCG, Pollution	Perhaps if the Iron Demon cannot withstand acid rain, that gives us an idea for level design with the ID. They seem to disagree on when Oni should take place; perhaps they should write two separate stories for Oni 2 in separate threads and then compare and merge the interesting points together. Backs up statement about "underprivileged masses" with quote from manual, translated from Italian. Asserts that another console about Griffin talked about him receiving money from an unknown source. "Confirms" that maybe one-third of ACCs still stand after Cataclysm, hence why he pictures some cities as untouched. Likes ideas of Mai's internal struggle and the WCG's "changing role".
73	here	guido	--	--
74	here	geyser	Griffin, Settings, Vehicles, Pollution, Mai	Reiterates that TCTF is no match for Syndicate, therefore team sent after Shinatama was meant to be wiped out and fail their mission. Then refers to a second team as a death squad sent after Konoko. Griffin may not be evil, but he's a clichéd "just doing his job" kind of character. And English console doesn't say anything about Griffin receiving money, so maybe the Italian has a bad translation. Downplays canonicity of manual. Reason for wanting to make Mai amnesiac at start of Oni 2 was precisely this -- so that the player doesn't have to be intimately familiar with Oni's story; we can then introduce the facts to Mai and the player at will. Reason for time skip is to allow technological development and add spice to the action. Not sure that setting the game right after Cataclysm is going to be compatible with fast-paced action. Doesn't want a depressing and desolate setting to fight in. And maybe the Humvee doesn't levitate. Questions assertion that not all ACCs blew up.
75	here	geyser	Society, Pollution, WCG	Asks about "air dispensers" in Guido's art; would WCG even bother trying to help the "underprivileged masses"? Separate threads may not be needed.
76	here	TheTurnipKing	Pollution, Daodan, Gameplay	Responding to geyser's deconstruction of Konoko's ending monologue (post #63); wasn't the problem that we were dependent on the ACCs? We were slowly killing ourselves as a race, and the Chrysalis was forcing us to make a change that we weren't making on our own. Questions geyser saying that action was taken by WCG after Jamie's death. Are you suggesting Mukade is Hasegawa? Wants Oni 2 to basically be more Oni 1, but with better physics and more stylized graphics. Also, melee weapons and interactive environments. Save points before dangerous areas a must.
77	here	geyser	Mai, WCG, Project	It was very naive of Konoko to think that Chrysalises could save everyone, as mentioned before. Confirms his hints about Mukade. Something being done after Jamie's death is logical since it wasn't covered up Big Brother-style. Completely dismisses usefulness of manual except for line about WCG permitting Syndicate to exist. What sort of stylized graphics? Is working to put Oni's world into Serious Engine.
78	here	TheTurnipKing	Project, WCG	Points to Beyond Good & Evil and Killer 7 for stylized graphics. Just because Jamie's death was reported on doesn't mean anything was done about it. Story focuses more on their trespassing [and Jamie's murder!] than on what is going on in the Wilderness. Could be more subtle form of Big Brother control. Isn't a Serious Engine mod going to require everyone to own the game, or for geyser to license the engine?
79	here	geyser	Project, WCG	Main wish for graphics is just to give characters higher-res textures. Licensing Serious Engine is only needed if selling the game or needing advanced support. Links to larger "Murder or Mercy?" newspaper picture.
80	here	TheTurnipKing	WCG	Is familiar with picture. Doesn't think it proves/disproves anything. Focus is placed on Hasegawa, and authorities will investigate virus, which means little because they are overlooking the root cause of the problem.
81	here	geyser	--	--
82	here	TheTurnipKing	--	--
83	here	geyser	WCG, Hasegawa	Points out that the story gives gruesome details on what happened to Jamie [as evidence against a state cover-up]. It does make things more interesting for Hasegawa's motivation if he was branded a criminal; his research might have had a mix of "altruism and resentment". What about doodles on whiteboard in his Lab?
84	here	Snake007x	WCG, Pollution, OtherChar, Mai	Has own idea for Oni 2: takes place 20 years after Oni 1. "TCTF" [he means WCG] has diminished power, but still controls some regions. World is stylized but polluted. Man starting to use mainly solar and wind energy. "Humans in the future generally don't have increased strength because of the Chrysalis at this point because they've spent most of their lives adapting to the pollution, but there are a few exceptions to the rule." Story is set in nation called United Federation. Not a wealthy or well-organized nation. Former police take hostages in bank to force government to merge with "TCTF". Konoko sent in to take them out, but she saves them instead. New government that is established gives most of the control to a leftist named Bismarck. He puts Konoko in charge of the Federal Security Force, but it soon becomes clear that he has been conspiring to become a dictator. He arms rebels so that they can be used as a premise for increasing his own power. Konoko tries to take him down and loses the fight against his guards, retreating. She needs to decide if she should team up with the "TCTF" or find another way.
85	here	Nyctasia	OtherChar	Points out that TCTF is just the police force. Why "Bismarck"? [I'm guessing he is feeling defensive of the famous Prussian ruler.] Can't understand remarks about Marxist dictatorships. And what happened to the Syndicate?
86	here	Snake007x	WCG	Meant WCG, not TCTF. "Marxist dictator" would be someone like Castro. Did intentionally use Bismarck's name because he was the father of Realpolitik. Didn't use Syndicate because he wanted to think up new enemy for Konoko, but maybe they are assisting the rebels. But Konoko did kill most of them.
87	here	geyser	Syndicate, OtherChar	Isn't sure that we should use "patented" [famous historical] names for characters. Isn't fond of some of the political message. Syndicate won't just go away, they're a major military force that was prepared for the poisoning of the air.
88	here	Snake007x	--	--
89	here	Nyctasia	Mai, WCG, Syndicate, Griffin	Thinks that gov't would have to find a scapegoat for the pollution and would pick Konoko. Not sure that future situation will be about forceful oppression, maybe more propaganda. Only part of Syndicate was destroyed by Konoko, plus they must have had ties to world powers. Also suggests that Griffin shows up to help Konoko partly for his own reasons, or perhaps to finish off Muro if Konoko fails.
90	here	Nyctasia	OtherChar	Otto von Bismarck ruled by 'brute wits, not brute strength', so Bismarck is not really a fitting name for Snake's character.
91	here	Snake007x	OtherChar	Acknowledges that Bismarck used brains, but that was only part of his inspiration; was also thinking of Castro. We need some physical conflict, or story would be pretty boring.
92	here	geyser	Hasegawa	Yes, too much politics is boring, so why emphasize it so much in the story? And what about Hasegawa's whiteboard?
93	here	TNT	Syndicate, TCTF	Can't recall whiteboard clearly. Disagrees that Syndicate troops are clearly superior to TCTF, manual says they have some advantages. Agrees that SLD recovery team was probably meant to fail. Geyser shouldn't ignore manual, it's a part of the game.
94	here	geyser	Project	The most important part of the game is the game itself.
95	here	TNT	Project	Manual is still part of the complete picture.
96	here	ZDLO	Project	"Many fans want to see real Oni 2" [I guess he means an Oni 2 from T2].
97	here	geyser	Project, Mai	Oni 2 is only going to come from the fans in this thread. Disagrees with Gatkowski (post #65) that Konoko could take the world's hatred. She was thrown into the situation and the public eye too quickly.
98	here	ZDLO	--	--
99	here	Nyctasia	Project	geyser is focused too much on eyecandy [he is referring to geyser's signature, which was "Life is a game. The plot is lousy, the gameplay sucks, but the *graphics* are just *awesome*!!!"]. Everyone is talking about plot [yes, he just contradicted himself...], but not about fixing what was wrong with Oni 1. Would rather read a story about Oni 2 than play it, if it's going to play just like Oni 1.
100	here	geyser	Project	Denies sig having anything to do with his plans for Oni 2. States that Oni 2 should have "perfect" melee combat, "drop-dead" physics, and a "killer" plot, or it's not worth doing. Hints that Croteam [makers of Serious Sam] might find the challenge interesting.
101	here	Nyctasia	Muro, Barabas, Mukade	Wonders if defeating an opponent means killing them or KOing them. Perhaps Muro is still alive somewhere in captivity alongside Barabas, but Mukade is clearly killed by Konoko, although it seems senseless.
102	here	geyser	Mukade, Barabas, Muro, Project	Thinks it's the other way around: Konoko seemed to break Mukade's neck, and then left without making sure he was dead. Whereas when she beat Barabas and Muro, she could have stuck around and made sure they were dead. Thinks it likely that Mukade would survive his injury and come back better than ever. Especially Muro would not be allowed by Griffin to live, or if he is, he would be frozen. Muro as a returning villain would be boring anyway. Barabas could be a challenging fight if his abilities have advanced. Mukade would be even tougher. Thinks that Mukade was acting according to a plan in the game, except perhaps for getting his neck broken. Asks if others agree that Mukade was the toughest boss. Recommends everyone try Lugaru, being an interesting proof of concept for combat. Reiterates that the planning for Oni 2 has to start in this thread, whether it becomes a fan-made game or is taken over by "someone big".
103	here	Snake007x	Project	Points out that, although not all gamers appreciate a political storyline, the Metal Gear games have certainly done well.
104	here	Nyctasia	OtherChar, Mukade	Thinks that Furies are the toughest non-bosses and speculates that there was going to be a Fury boss in the game. Mukade is a level above the other ninjas because of his higher health and his Devil Stars. But Muro is hardest because his moves do the most damage. Thinks that Mukade is dead and that he simply overestimated his abilities, like Barabas; that's why he only took one brown ninja with him at the end. If Konoko can "sense" Mukade, then how did he hide his survival from her? Tells Snake that there was another Bismarck that was all about brute power.
105	here	geyser	Mukade	Mukade could have been luring Konoko in, that's why he didn't give himself more bodyguards. Perhaps Konoko doesn't sense him because he goes into a sort of coma after being injured. Or perhaps he's advanced enough that he can choose to hide himself psychically from Konoko. The "senselessness" of Konoko trying to kill him is partly his own fault for working her into a killing frenzy. So if they meet again, he won't resent her for it. Opines that "cat and mouse" refers to Konoko as the mouse, not the cat. Wonders if Nyctasia was referring to the battleship Bismarck.
106	here	geyser	Art	[Posts drawing of Mr. Big and Mai].
107	here	geyser	Art, Project	[Posts drawing of Syndicate Guard gunner.] [Links to ssg's collection of pre-beta screenshots and the two trailers.] Why did Konoko used to look more mechanical (eyes, skin plugs...)? Was she a cyborg like Motoko originally, and the Daodan stuff was added later? "Motoko" certainly sounds like "Konoko". And Konoko means "kitty" [...no, it doesn't].
108	here	TNT	Project	Why do many of the pre-beta shots look nicer? Glad that blood is gone, it looked awful.
109	here	geyser	Mr. Big, Mai, OtherChar	At beginning of Oni 2, a rebellion is brewing. Mr. Big is one of the rebels. He encounters Mai and takes her along on some missions in Vansam City. Enemies are Syndicate troops. Mai is starting to have troubling flashbacks. Mr. Big eventually realizes who she is and helps her recover her memories. Her abilities come back gradually as she gains more awareness of them and she recovers from her "coma". Rebels then have to decide whether to work with her or hold her responsible for the cataclysm. This will cause a schism in the rebellion, with some trying to hurt her or betray her. Perhaps Mai acquires a leadership role herself. Then she meets the world leader and is surprised to find that he knows her.
110	here	ssg	Project	Quotes Alex Okita from Harry's Bungie West interviews explaining what the deal was with Konoko's eyes in the '99 trailer.
111	here	geyser	Project	So Konoko's eyes were like the SLDs' then.
112	here	Gatkowski	Project	Doesn't "kono-ko" mean "this child", referring to an orphaned Mai?
113	here	geyser	Project, Vehicles, Art	"Konoko" means "cutie" or "sweet thing", applied to kids, pets, etc. [Posts drawing of mechanical combat frame for Mai that could be used to fight Iron Demon.]
114	here	AnonAnom	Mukade	Maybe Mukade is an SLD based off Shinatama's engrams, copied by Muro after her abduction. If Mukade was Hasegawa, why would he work for his own son, unless he were secretly organizing things behind Muro's back? And in geyser's theory, Mukade should be more advanced of a symbiote than his children, unless he had it implanted after them, or he hasn't seen much combat due to sneaking around as a ninja.
115	here	typhen	--	--
116	here	geyser	Settings, Pollution, Griffin, OtherChar, Mai	Since "chenille" means butterfly, is tempted to name sequel Oni 2: Butterfly Effect. Going forward 20 years will allow technology to improve, new architecture to develop, and the air to become breathable, at least under domes. A new order will be established, and Griffin will be gone either way (regardless of Oni's ending), and his children will be grown up. Reiterates ideas about Mai waking up in cave with no memories. Then describes her coming back to the cave looking for a message from herself. She runs into Syndicate forces who are swarming the area looking for her, and she has to escape the cave and Wilderness and get back to Mr. Big.
117	here	typhen	Project	Oni 2 won't be a fast project for a few fans to make, and concepts like "perfect clipping" and "dynamically-generated skeletal animation" aren't feasible.
118	here	geyser	Project	Thinks "skeletal animation" is perfectly feasible [he missed the "dynamic" part of typhen's statement]. No game needs 100% perfect clipping, 80% or 90% will do. Points to Pierre as example of what just one person can do. An improved Oni (adding the ID, MP, new maps) could be done in "not much more than a year". But sure, an Oni 2 will take longer. Will continue to write and plan the game. Will buy Serious Sam II when it comes out to investigate the engine; thinks it will seriously speed up development time. "Once the plot and models and art are up and going, I'd definitely get someone 'Big' to carry on the project." A studio like CroTeam should be interested in making an Oni 2 if the fans create a compelling sort of rough version of how it would look.
119	here	typhen	Society, Pollution, Syndicate, Mukade, Gameplay, Mai	What if, 20 years after Oni, most humans live in cities with repaired atmo. processors, but some have Chrysalises and live outside the cities in their own settlements. Normal humans can venture outside in suits for a limited time, which are manufactured and controlled by the TCTF. Syndicate troops live inside and outside the cities, but they have the most power outside. The Chrysalises came from the Syndicate, but they are inferior to Konoko's. Mukade is running the Syndicate. Konoko can use her adaptive abilities to survive being thrown into pits of acid (which she can throw enemies into) and swim underwater for long periods of time, allowing stealthy approaches to situations. Imagines Konoko breaking into TCTF HQ and speaking to new commander, then escaping TCTF soldiers into the Wilderness, where the Syndicate attacks her. Likes idea of Konoko being underdog; she can be outnumbered, but not out-run. She can even jump-kick pilots chasing her in helicopters. Hopes that she would still be young in appearance, and also that she's not transformed into something ugly.
120	here	geyser	Mukade, Barabas, Shinatama, Muro, Pollution, Society, Syndicate, Mai, Gameplay, Daodan	Thinks that AnonAnom's ideas are interesting, but still prefers Mukade=Dad hypothesis for the more interesting story it yields. Not sure that you can extract an SLD's engrams like that anyway, certainly not that quickly. And you can't implant a Daodan into an SLD [this is not stated anywhere explicitly, however SLDs are inorganic, so this is probably true]. But maybe Barabas was a cyborg who was given a Daodan; the Daodan only modified his organic parts, thus explaining his incomplete transformation. Shinatama can appear elsewhere in Oni 2 (likes Owldreamer's ideas for her/Hikari). Mukade could be Hasegawa and still work for Muro, as he has plenty of leeway in carrying out his missions. He might prefer to observe from the shadows while Muro does his dictator thing, plus it lets him get close to Mai. And he might indeed have plans which are unknown to Muro. Agrees with typhen that air could be breathable again in 20 years, esp. with Mukade being a scientist and having "ET-enhanced intelligence". Would not call TCTF the "TCTF" anymore; "if Mai's amnesiac, you don't want too many bells to ring at once." And why would Mai go to the police HQ? They'd be more likely to take her in when she shows up on the streets. You then have to escape custody. Dislikes idea of Chrysalis folk; too many difficult implications, and besides, why would they ally with Mai? And the Syndicate should definitely be the world power since they were the world's only army and they were ready for the Cataclysm. Doesn't see Syndicate getting scattered or putting Chrysalises in everyone, only a trusted few close to Mukade. Mai would definitely be young and human-looking, as the Chrysalis will aim for immortality and also allowing the host to fit in with its kin and not be destroyed. Does want her to be weakened so player can learn her abilities gradually as she recovers them. The "hardsuits" that let you play in "Godzilla" mode will use the same combat system so you already know how to control it. Like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, Mai's diet could change radically, allowing her to go without much food. Maybe she could have a "teleport gauge" that allows her to automatically escape instant-death situations like the ones in Rooftops if she has enough charge built up. Prefers his "shattered rebellion" idea to a simple alternation between Wilderness and City; allows for more variety in situations, more character motivations, and more interesting story developments. Agrees that Mai should be able to take out helicopters by jumping, even vaulting from one to another in order to climb, or throwing objects at them like expended weapons. Has more plans for how weapons are used in melee combat....
121	here	typhen	Gameplay, Daodan	Acknowledges that he wasn't thinking of plot implications when it comes to his ideas. His main interest is gameplay; remove the Chrysalis folk if they aren't going to lead to some fun gameplay concepts. Thinks that geyser's idea of throwing things like vehicles at aerial enemies is better than jumping super-high. How would you control the jump, esp. when indoors or leaping from roof to roof? Maybe Konoko should breathe fire. Also, wonders what happens when a Daodan symbiote gets pregnant.
122	here	geyser	Project, Daodan, Gameplay	Doesn't want to make too many outdoor areas, instead focusing on making the Cave map perfect and using it twice. Rejects the idea of "Chrysalis to the people". High-jumping would be directed by a targeting system. You'd have a gauge for "high jumping, fast running, strong punching, teleporting, throwing heavy stuff, KAMEHAMEHAing balls of fire etc." Falling off a roof can be solved with either auto-teleporting (also on a gauge) or else allowing the player to continue through the level on the ground. Dislikes idea of a holstered gun disappearing as in Oni 1. They could have anti-gravity devices on them so that they float up in the air above Konoko until she grabs them again. Or perhaps she can throw them very high up, do some melee fighting, then grab the gun as it falls (the game can show where the gun is going to land). Large guns probably shouldn't be holsterable at all; you either carry them and get slowed down, or drop them and regain your agility. [Links to Serious Sam 2 footage about which he is very excited.] Loves open spaces in SSII and the futuristic cities. Doesn't want to consider having Mai get pregnant, as that requires working in a romantic angle. Doubts that a fully-integrated symbiote would even reproduce in a normal human way. Perhaps they simply "bud" when it's time to reproduce. Fighting a bunch of budded Mukade clones might be interesting, but it's not something he's keen on.
123	here	ssg	Project	Serious Sam is an FPS, so can we make the engine work in third-person?
124	here	geyser	Project	The engine allows switching between views. The only question is whether to recreate the JelloCam or use a more traditional player-controlled camera. Either way, you can still "cheat" by looking through/around things. The Serious Engine allows lots of variety in total conversions, such as third-person bike-riding and swordplay, just using the modding tools provided, even without an engine license.
125	here	geyser	Project	On subject of feasibility, the biggest obstacle is AI. Melee AI, and getting the whole combat system together in a new engine. Until the fans can demonstrate that this will work, and over a network, we can't expect a big studio to take on the project.
126	here	geyser	Art	[Posts pics from Syndicate Wars' CG intro as model for Oni 2's real-time look.]
127	here	Seraf Ethifeo	Daodan, Mukade	What if ETs governing the Daodan are immaterial, and so they have to convert humans to serve as ambassadors? But the issue is that the mutated Daodan hosts won't look very human, so Mukade would need to rule from the shadows.
128	here	geyser	Mukade, Daodan	Mukade probably is still mostly human-looking, as he is human-sized in Oni. Perhaps his near-death experience caused him to mutate, but he can probably still wear a mask while in public. But what do these "oni" want with us? Are they benevolent, and are evolving us in order to allow us to avoid a catastrophe to humanity that they know is coming, or are they using us for their own ends? Are they just indifferent to us?
129	here	Seraf Ethifeo	Daodan	Perhaps there's a threat they want to avoid, but since it's physical, they need our help.
130	here	ZDLO	--	--
131	here	ZDLO	--	--
132	here	ZDLO	--	--
133	here	geyser	--	--
134	here	TNT	Themes	Quotes a post of geyser's [from another thread] about not wanting to tell an Oni 2 story that is relentlessly dark because it's numbing for the player. Disagrees, a dark story can still have strong emotion. Although Oni 1 didn't really use any visual language to augment its story except perhaps in Dream Lab, where the feeling is dismal and enclosed because of the space Konoko is in while listening to her father's account.
135	here	geyser	Themes	Is not against darkness in Oni 2, just unrelenting darkness. Agrees that darkness isn't really used for story purposes in Oni, although perhaps for corner-cutting purposes on a technical level. Oni is fairly glum overall, but was more colorful in pre-beta.
136	here	TNT	Themes	Agrees that we don't want a story that just keeps getting darker. There's enough misery in real life.
137	here	geyser	Themes	Yes, but sometimes over-the-top misery in fiction is a welcome distraction from realistic miseries. Isn't that what noir is about?
138	here	TNT	Themes	Thought geyser didn't want a dark story where it's just a question of who dies next and gives Mai a reason to kill more bad guys. Noir genre can also involve detective work. But you don't need to show everything to the viewer. Their imagination can fill in some things, although the effectiveness of the subtlety varies with one's personality.
139	here	geyser	Themes	Wasn't advocating darkness in Oni 2 per se. However, Oni's world "allows for a multifaceted plot: from the most trivial to the most complex, there's cops and criminals (or government and rebellion), friendship and betrayal, mercy and vengeance, insanity and kinslaying, questionable humanity (androids, cyborgs, clones, symbiotes), non-human intelligence, grand design... It's quite rich indeed, so if there's darkness, it won't be trivial who-dies-next darkness. Neither will the player really know what kind of plot twists to expect. Oni (2) is not confined to a genre (such as "noir" for Max Payne), it's rather complex science-fiction (maybe more complex than Ghost in the Shell, even), and I think it's a very good thing." Also, we should have some nightmare sequences in Oni 2.
140	here	TNT	Themes	Doubts we can create the kind of depth that GitS has, but agrees otherwise.
141	here	geyser	Mukade, Hasegawa	Recapitulates his theory on Mukade: the attack on TCTF HQ was Muro's doing, but the Regional State operation was Mukade's. He planned the confrontation with Mai, and he dropped a disc with only the information he wanted her to have. Mukade is Mai's dad. He survived their fight.
142	here	guido	Mukade	Agrees with almost all of geyser's ideas concerning Mukade. "I think he could assume a number of very different (maybe conflicting) roles, even in a single storyline. I also think that his relationship with Konoko should be kept ambiguous in any case." [Posts picture but link is broken. I think it was an earlier version of THIS.]
143	here	geyser	Mukade, Vehicles	Doesn't think Mukade can be that ambiguous. And how can Mai sit next to him smiling like they didn't fight to the death earlier? But the idea of multiple Mukades is interesting, whether images or clones, making him more enigmatic. Doesn't like giant Akira-style bikes. Points out various errors in the drawing's perspective, concept, etc.
144	here	TNT	Mukade	Doesn't think a ninja would ride a giant motorcycle around.
145	here	geyser	Mukade, Vehicles	Yes, Mukade should have a quieter method of transportation, maybe something more like Spiderman's web slinger, or a grappling hook gun. He ought to be able to invent a hover vehicle.
146	here	Your_Mom	Mukade	Why didn't Mukade teleport away from Konoko instead of letting her catch him? Points out that we don't know Hasegawa's first name. Mai and Muro both begin with an 'M'....
147	here	geyser	Mukade	Yes, that's what he's getting at. But if the relationship is supposed to be ambiguous, it's not in Guido's pic....
148	here	TNT	Mukade	Ending the story without disambiguating Mukade would be rather unsatisfying for the player. Maybe Mukade *wanted* to fight Mai.
149	here	geyser	Mukade	Yes, that's what he's getting at! It's all too convenient that Mukade doesn't jump out the window until Mai has finally gotten through the building's ninjas and made her way up there, and that Konoko manages to catch up to him on the roof only once he's alone.
150	here	Guido	Art	Apologizes for rough work on drawing, here is better version. [Link is broken.]