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User talk:Iritscen: Difference between revisions
→Importing from Blender
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::::::geyser... you're looking at Ed's fixed version, aren't you? I refused to link to mine because it was so messed up. If the copy you're looking at has correct part names, then ''it's not the copy I was working with''. It would be a waste of time to examine that model and fix every problem when Neo has already fixed the export bugs and newly-made exports are fine. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ::::::geyser... you're looking at Ed's fixed version, aren't you? I refused to link to mine because it was so messed up. If the copy you're looking at has correct part names, then ''it's not the copy I was working with''. It would be a waste of time to examine that model and fix every problem when Neo has already fixed the export bugs and newly-made exports are fine. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
:::::::No, I'm looking at [http://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre THIS] one. As far as I can tell it's the exact same "flawed" version as you gave to Ed, and apart from the head name/hierarchy/placement (and the head mesh per se) there's nothing wrong with that model. Oh, and I still don't like how you blame OniSplit (version number?) for abstract bugs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | :::::::No, I'm looking at [http://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre THIS] one. As far as I can tell it's the exact same "flawed" version as you gave to Ed, and apart from the head name/hierarchy/placement (and the head mesh per se) there's nothing wrong with that model. Oh, and I still don't like how you blame OniSplit (version number?) for abstract bugs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
::::::::Whoops, I forgot Ed linked to my uploaded flawed model. See below for my answer on the "abstract bug" part. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | |||
:Make the changes. | :Make the changes. | ||
:Export from Blender, Collada 1.4, options: triangles, disable physics, current scene. (I'm doing this from memory, I do not have access to Blender at work. will correct if necessary) | :Export from Blender, Collada 1.4, options: triangles, disable physics, current scene. (I'm doing this from memory, I do not have access to Blender at work. will correct if necessary) | ||
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:::::::::Well, DAEs exported with scene metadata are annoying more than anything else. It will justs end up as nested scenes when and if you import and reexport the DAE again, but it doesn't screw up the model in any way. For one thing, [http://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre THIS] includes scene data and I can work with it just fine. | :::::::::Well, DAEs exported with scene metadata are annoying more than anything else. It will justs end up as nested scenes when and if you import and reexport the DAE again, but it doesn't screw up the model in any way. For one thing, [http://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre THIS] includes scene data and I can work with it just fine. | ||
:::::::::Please note your misunderstanding of Ed's DAE->DAE problem as an example of a situation where early disambiguation wouldn't have hurt. Just because you and Ed have been talking about Blender and HD Griffin in private doesn't make you able to read each other's minds. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | :::::::::Please note your misunderstanding of Ed's DAE->DAE problem as an example of a situation where early disambiguation wouldn't have hurt. Just because you and Ed have been talking about Blender and HD Griffin in private doesn't make you able to read each other's minds. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::I know what you're talking about when you say the scene metadata is annoying, I tried to read the file once with the naked eye, and got pretty ticked off trying to make heads or tails out of all the nesting. | |||
::::::::::As regards my little misunderstanding about Ed's DAE->DAE problem, that was easily corrected by a short exchange between us. Even being as vague as you seem to think we are, we actually haven't wasted any real time due to misunderstandings so far. So we can at least read each others' minds enough that we don't have to spell out everything letter by letter. It's your mind I have trouble reading, geyser ^_^ --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | |||
:What did I do? I used Cheetah3D. I exported ONCCgriffin_generic as Collada, used FBXConverter to convert the file to .fbx. I also converted your new model to .fbx. I then copied the new griffin head to the griffin_generic fbx file, replaced the original head, set the correct rotation and parent/child relationship. Exported it out as .fbx, converted it to .dae using FBXConverter, then imported into Oni. Also, regarding the triangles not being connected in my model, I did not Optimize the model in Cheetah3D before exporting. | :What did I do? I used Cheetah3D. I exported ONCCgriffin_generic as Collada, used FBXConverter to convert the file to .fbx. I also converted your new model to .fbx. I then copied the new griffin head to the griffin_generic fbx file, replaced the original head, set the correct rotation and parent/child relationship. Exported it out as .fbx, converted it to .dae using FBXConverter, then imported into Oni. Also, regarding the triangles not being connected in my model, I did not Optimize the model in Cheetah3D before exporting. | ||
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::::Just to explain this once and for all: I exported Griffin. Months ago. OniSplit was still buggy in the area of exporting at the time. Stuff was messed up in the model, but that would only become known later. It wasn't anything that I could notice while working on it. Eventually I realized, from seeing Ed's bug reports on Neo's talk page, that my model was going to be trouble. So, last week, I used OniSplit 0.9.14 to export Griffin, and appended my old file with the HD head onto the imported new export. I deleted the head in the new export and put the HD head into place (but forgot to parent it). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ::::Just to explain this once and for all: I exported Griffin. Months ago. OniSplit was still buggy in the area of exporting at the time. Stuff was messed up in the model, but that would only become known later. It wasn't anything that I could notice while working on it. Eventually I realized, from seeing Ed's bug reports on Neo's talk page, that my model was going to be trouble. So, last week, I used OniSplit 0.9.14 to export Griffin, and appended my old file with the HD head onto the imported new export. I deleted the head in the new export and put the HD head into place (but forgot to parent it). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
:::::That explains a lot, but the information is still incomplete without the version number of the OniSplit you used "months ago" and the way in which "stuff was messed up". Are we even talking about COLLADA? Didn't you start working on a Griffin imported from OBJ, before OniSplit even started supporting COLLADA? It may look like a detail to you, but it's very important that you remember. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | :::::That explains a lot, but the information is still incomplete without the version number of the OniSplit you used "months ago" and the way in which "stuff was messed up". Are we even talking about COLLADA? Didn't you start working on a Griffin imported from OBJ, before OniSplit even started supporting COLLADA? It may look like a detail to you, but it's very important that you remember. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
::::::I don't have an exact record of what version of OniSplit was used to export Griffin, or what month it was done in, but it was probably the end of March. And yes, I did in fact export Griffin as OBJ before the Collada support came along. The model on my sendspace account is in fact that model (imported to, and worked with in, Blender, then exported to DAE). Now, as far as the exact 'stuff that was messed up', all I can say is that I was reading Neo's talk page (which was completely different at the time), and my eyes were glazing over, because I had not delved into the technicalities and a lot of the exchange between EdT and Neo was like Greek to me, but I do remember reading about incorrect part names. I can no longer find that discussion in his page or any version of it in the past, but Ed can back me up on this, that he noticed that there were parts with names like "right right" instead of "calf right", etc. I believe there were other issues aside from naming, but I also felt that, even if I didn't know what the problems were, they were out there, lurking, and it was best to paste the HD head onto a new export. So, because I refused to let the old model's export problems trip me up (and yes, OniSplit was buggy, Neo will admit that), I never determined ''exactly'' what those problems would have been. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | |||
:'''What went wrong with Griffin?''' If that's of any help, you can let ''me'' (or Neo) try and import him ''any time at all''. When in trouble, there's nothing wrong with asking those familiar with OniSplit and/or the COLLADA format to have a look. What kind of masochist are you? If you're scared of me, try and "use" Neo. He may not help you all the way out, but he won't bite, that's for sure. | :'''What went wrong with Griffin?''' If that's of any help, you can let ''me'' (or Neo) try and import him ''any time at all''. When in trouble, there's nothing wrong with asking those familiar with OniSplit and/or the COLLADA format to have a look. What kind of masochist are you? If you're scared of me, try and "use" Neo. He may not help you all the way out, but he won't bite, that's for sure. | ||
:: *shrug* Ed just seemed to be the person to ask. We're using the same programs, and he had clear experience in importing models already. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST) | :: *shrug* Ed just seemed to be the person to ask. We're using the same programs, and he had clear experience in importing models already. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
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:::::You probably get this by now, but the model that's "100% consistent" with a new export *is* a new export (except the HD head). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | :::::You probably get this by now, but the model that's "100% consistent" with a new export *is* a new export (except the HD head). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:02, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
::::::Yes, but (see above) this still isn't telling me whatever was wrong with the old export: "wrong part names, for one thing, but probably more"... "probably"? Just what kind of suspectedly extensive problems were those. Please cope with my curiosity. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ::::::Yes, but (see above) this still isn't telling me whatever was wrong with the old export: "wrong part names, for one thing, but probably more"... "probably"? Just what kind of suspectedly extensive problems were those. Please cope with my curiosity. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
:::::::(Answered above.) --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | |||
::geyser, sorry my terminology is not correct. What I called "center point" is the point where the body part will rotate around. I used "Rotation" as the orientation of the body part in 3D space. When the rotation for all the body parts is 0 for x,y,z, then the pose of the model is the default orientation. But since the pose in Blender is a standing pose, the rotation of the body parts is not 0,0,0. So if you replaced the head, with one that had a different rotation (even though it looked the same), the head will appear wrong in Oni. | ::geyser, sorry my terminology is not correct. What I called "center point" is the point where the body part will rotate around. I used "Rotation" as the orientation of the body part in 3D space. When the rotation for all the body parts is 0 for x,y,z, then the pose of the model is the default orientation. But since the pose in Blender is a standing pose, the rotation of the body parts is not 0,0,0. So if you replaced the head, with one that had a different rotation (even though it looked the same), the head will appear wrong in Oni. | ||
:::''That's where the catch is, Ed: are you sure you understand how it is possible that 2 heads have "different rotations" even though they "look the same"? And in what sense is the rotation of the body parts not 0,0,0 for a standing pose? Think "local reference". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | :::''That's where the catch is, Ed: are you sure you understand how it is possible that 2 heads have "different rotations" even though they "look the same"? And in what sense is the rotation of the body parts not 0,0,0 for a standing pose? Think "local reference". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
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:::::'''I need to fix the model for further work going forward''' "Yes you do... perhaps more than you know..." (C)Kerr | :::::'''I need to fix the model for further work going forward''' "Yes you do... perhaps more than you know..." (C)Kerr | ||
::::::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ::::::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:31, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
:::::::If you are insinuating something, please spell it out [[Image_talk:Poly_Mods-Griffin_Master_Comp.jpg|here]]. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:00, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | |||
::P.S. to geyser: I did offer these files to you by saying you could ask Ed for them... so, you can't accuse me of withholding them from you since I only just made them available to anyone at all, and you were included in that offer. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST) | ::P.S. to geyser: I did offer these files to you by saying you could ask Ed for them... so, you can't accuse me of withholding them from you since I only just made them available to anyone at all, and you were included in that offer. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST) | ||
:::I wasn't accusing anyone of anything right there, but you have to admit that "oh, just go and ask Ed if you really wanna have a look at it, but I really wouldn't bother if I were you" is not the same as "here it is". Also, it's not just about "offering" stuff to ''me''; this is typically the case where I'd address ''Neo'' directly, at the first sign of trouble... "if I were you". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | :::I wasn't accusing anyone of anything right there, but you have to admit that "oh, just go and ask Ed if you really wanna have a look at it, but I really wouldn't bother if I were you" is not the same as "here it is". Also, it's not just about "offering" stuff to ''me''; this is typically the case where I'd address ''Neo'' directly, at the first sign of trouble... "if I were you". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 07:01, 3 June 2008 (CEST) | ||