User talk:ONIrules: Difference between revisions

User talk:ONIrules (view source)

Revision as of 07:39, 4 August 2008

3,584 bytes added , 4 August 2008

Here we go

Loser

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-Hi ONIrules,
-I have been watching you for some time (I mean it in good, no stalking ^_^). Looks like you are similar to me in terms of modifying ONI. How about joining our forces together?
-Point is: Your TRAM hacks are awesome, but there IS already similar idea by me. I am not saying I am better, NO. We are SAME. Just...I am working on enhanced TRAM system now, this time I want to do more job than just add a few flashes/trails and make a few moves deal more damage or stagger enemy. I want to make combat system a bit deeper, less spam-able and maybe more fun.
-My visions:
-*add wall smashing (3 particle system) to knockdowns and some throws, so combat is more environment-interactive
-*add new TRACs for boss-characters (Barabus, Mukade), modify their moves so they are more powerful (not overpowered, just more powerful)
-*add new moves for these TRACs, of course these will be modificated moves that are already present in ONI (I cannot create new moves so far, I have tried and FAILED ^_^)
-*get rid of riddculously large throw distances of come chars (strikers- throw range 20!), make throws work more like "counter attacks" than like regular moves
-*overall add some "new moves" such as side rolls (not that pseudo-roll which is made when you move mouse while character lies on the ground, but real side roll, should be performed by pressing left/right key while on the ground, which will make character roll quickly ''to the side'', not on one place)
-*reduce invulnerability of some moves (mainly specials and throws) so you are vulnerable at the beginning/near the end of the move. This should makespecials less spam-able
-*get rid of unblockables as much as possible (no it is not fun to have unblockables, AI2 is dumb in this and WILL try to block these attacks), some unblockables are must (RIF moves for example) these should do only symbolic damage to avoid abusing
-*in terms of special attacks, replace unblockable with heavy stagger if attack was blocked + of course set 1/2 block damage flag for these moves
-*maybe change ninja's block for "pseudo dodge" for Mukade
-*and lots of other changes
-This is NOT full list, it is just brainstormed right at the moment from what I have in my head for at last 2 years. If you join, we will discuss details before we get to work. I want, because in two it will be easier.
-So...would you like me to join you on our (almost same) goal? If yes, then we can make sorta mini-team (2 people ^_^) which will do this TRAM modding for others.
-Please write your reply in this discussion,
---[[User:Loser|Loser]] 16:15, 3 August 2008 (CEST)
 Loser: please keep your modding focused, so that you don't spend ages designing "new moves" when you could include them in a later release; please keep your modding modular, so that the more controversial parts can be made optional in a release; please distribute .oni files rather than OUP-importable data chunks when you can; please double-check your modded .raw parts carefully, because you don't want the release to be plagued with memory corruption; what is the most current release of your modded TRAM (did you fix all of the issues present [http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/20080121/ HERE]?), and do you believe it is ''stable'' (i.e., that it doesn't cause memory corruption and random crashes)? Please reply. Oh, and once your roadmap is clear enough, you can put that kind of talk on AE:Melee and AE_talk:Melee (and on more specific pages like AE:Spam-proof_melee and AE:Char-env_collision and...)
 :[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:41, 3 August 2008 (CEST)
-Join forces?!?!No problem ,but I'm not quite an expert yet. In fact I should call you an expert Loser. I mean you did a lot of things (the old warehouse mod, which makes me start to hack TRAMS) and videos like "Revenge" (I love that). I will try and decide to team up with you!!! Also don't expect much on me when I write scripts. To me is kinda hard. Sorry about taking your idea. It also love to edit TRAMS too ^_^ --[[User:ONIrules|ONIrules]]  August 2008 (EST)
+----
-----
 THANKS ONIrules!!!
 OK, first: geyser, I have read and aknowledged. Will try to do it that way.
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 :Thats a lot!! Since this is my first time, it will be a little unclear. So Loser, just tell me first the things step by step. Then I can follow your task. You don't have to remind of the characters that I'm going to do. Its in my brain ^_^[[User:ONIrules|ONIrules]]  August 2008 (EST)
 ::Can you post a screenshot or even the files of your new character? [[User:EdT|EdT]] 21:53, 3 August 2008 (CEST)
+''EdT'': I don't think he means whole new character, but "his" TRAMs (his half of work).
+''Paradox'': I know about that fact, but thanks for mentioning it. Yes, numbers are shifted because list should start with ZERO, but it start with one.
+''ONIrules'':OK, it is decided. I write you this step by step list how to work on one TRAM in way I want and let's get to work. When you are finished, write here + post .oni files.
+First, terminology we will be using for fields in attack part of the TRAM:
+{{Table}}
+{{OBDth}}
+{{OBDtrBK}}
+{{OBDtr| 0x00 | bitset32 |FFC8C8| 00 60 06 00 | 0, 96, 6, 0 | damage-dealing bones
+}}
+{{OBDtr| 0x04 | float    |FFFFC8| 00 00 00 41 | 8.000000    | '''knockback''', the higher you set, the more is enemy pushed back when attack is sucessful }}
+{{OBDtr| 0x08 | bitset32 |C8FFC8| 08 00 00 00 | 8, 0, 0, 0  | '''attack part flags'''; the following bits are possible:
+:0x00 - nothing special, attack can be blocked by any stance of defender (crouch, stand) and deals no damage when blocked
+:0x01 - attack is unblockable
+:0x02 - attack is high (can be blocked only in normal stance, hits if enemy is crouching)
+:0x04 - attack is low (can be blocked only in crouch stance, hits if enemy is in normal stance)
+:0x08 - attack deals 1/2 damage when blocked + while blocking, it does not use blue flash but hit flash (konflash1 for this TRAM)
+}}
+{{OBDtr| 0x0C | int16    |C8FFFF| 14 00       | 20          | hit points }}
+{{OBDtr| 0x0E | int16    |FFC8FF| 05 00       | 5           | start frame }}
+{{OBDtr| 0x10 | int16    |FFC8FF| 0F 00       | 15          | stop frame }}
+{{OBDtr| 0x12 | int16    |FFC800| 50 00       | 80          | '''hit animation''' (animtype ID of animation of opponent if attack was sucessful,for example 80 <nowiki>=</nowiki> hit_foot) }}
+{{OBDtr| 0x14 | int16    |C800C8| 0A 00       | 10          | '''animation duration''' (in frames, if you input high values, it automatically changes any animtype ID of enemy to stagger animation}}
+{{OBDtr| 0x16 | int16    |C800C8| 0A 00       | 10          | '''block stun''' (in frames) -input high values and this attack will get "has blockstun" label when used by MELE profile}}
+{{OBDtr| 0x18 | int16    |C800C8| 00 00       | 0           | '''block stagger''' (in frames) - when used this move gets "has stagger" when used by MELE profile}}
+{{OBDtr| 0x1A | int16    |C800C8| 00 00       | 0           | apparently garbage }}
+{{OBDtr| 0x1C | int32    |C87C64| 00 00 00 00 | 0           | apparently garbage }}
+|}
+*1) Spam original TRAM (or whole combo). Spam it aganist group of enemies, spam it aganist single enemy (some harder, like Muro/Mukade). Look at the effect this spam has.
+:*Is AI2 able to resist the spam? That does not mean it can block/dodge every attack. Only if you can do that move again and again and enemy can barely hit you, there is something wrong, especially aganist multiple enemies (Konoko's original kick special is nice example. If you have good timing, you can spam it so good that you are virtually undefeatable)
+:*Are you (attacker) vulnerable while attacking? That means: if you attack with your move and enemy attacks you as well, then enemy gets hit but you recieve "blocked attack" blue flash. Notice when spamming specials. Sometimes you GET hit (some enemy attacks you) while doing special, but it indicates blue flash. Similar when getting up.
+:*Which effect has sucessful attack on enemy? Does he only gets hit/is staggered/is knockdowned? Do you think it is good response for your attack? Are you satisfied with knockback? In combos, can you land next hit safely or enemy gets out of reach/can counterattack when you want to do next move?
+::MY VISION for combos: Make combos so you can sucessfully counterattack only in pause between FIRST and SECOND move. next pauses (between third and fourth etc) should be cared that defender cannot counterattack, can only defend. This way, using combos will get more rewarding. Use bigger value in block stun or mild block stagger to achieve this effect.
+::REASON: In original ONI if enemy catches you with combo, you can usually throw him and free yourself (with few exceptions) between 2nd and 3rd move. Then using combos is too risky and player reserves for hit n' run tactics, lariatfest or judo (throws a lot). Of course when combo looks like two fast punches then one slow, it has to be treated differently. It is up to you.
+:*think about damage, block stagger. I prefer block stagger to block stun, it looks more dynamic. But choice is yours. Don't forget: even if TRAM will cause block stagger, there should be at least 8 frames of block stun written in. Block stagger should be adequate to the power of attack. Beware: some attack causes block stagger -> right after that we can throw. That would lead (logically) to abuse of that move. Specials/standing combos are usually good (use block stagger wisely), Be especially catious when modifying running/jumping moves (block stagger from running move -> immediate possibility of running throw).
+:*You can also change start/stop frame if you think it will be for good.
+:*my request: directional (lt/rt/fw/bk) punches can be blocked in any stance, kicks only in stand (0x02 attack part flag)
+:*my request: last moves from combos should be blocked only high or low (depends on how animation looks), rest can be blocked in any stance
+:*my request: running punches can be blocked in any stance, kicks in stand only (0x02 attack part flag)
+::REASON: by these, we will uplift kicks a bit, evening fact that fists are usually faster.
+*2) Then start modifying TRAM. Do attack part, then change vulnerability if attack has any. Basically, make TRAMs as much vulnerable as possible. Don't forget - throws are next step, so leave them out now.
+:*invulnerability - Open your [[TRAM]] (dat entry), offset 0x3C. Check that it does NOT have 0x02. If yes, remove it so TRAM becomes vulnerable. If it had (specials mostly), do that screen capture process I wrote above. That way you will see how animation looks in each frame, it helps you with deciding. Now we want it to be invulnerable only in the middle. Go to 0x180, here you can set first frame when animation gets invulnerable. next to it is field for last frame. Adjust it so these specials have invulnerable part in the middle of execution, where "attacker is the king" but have at least 16 frames long windows (and I prefer longer ^_^) at the beginning/at the end of animation, so  attacker can be hurt. This should prevent spamming.
+*3) Save, try again aganist group and aganist single enemy. Finetune, then move onto another TRAM. That is enough so far.
+LET'S ROCK !!!