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AE talk:Combat system: Difference between revisions
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Yes, that is for Neo. Still want to make more sophisticated melee, eh? Me too, trust me (read my personal page ^_^). But I would save these ideas. We cannot do very much with engine so far. Altough Neo can, imagine that you have to "learn" AI2 this new ability as well. That means far more than just a few lines of code. --[[User:Loser|Loser]] 12:26, 27 September 2008 (CEST) | Yes, that is for Neo. Still want to make more sophisticated melee, eh? Me too, trust me (read my personal page ^_^). But I would save these ideas. We cannot do very much with engine so far. Altough Neo can, imagine that you have to "learn" AI2 this new ability as well. That means far more than just a few lines of code. --[[User:Loser|Loser]] 12:26, 27 September 2008 (CEST) | ||
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'''NOTE:''' (added '''23rd November 2008'''): | |||
:I don't have enough time for consistent modding, however I am trying to keep in touch with AE stuff. I have found yet another two bugs in this version of throw TRAMs: | |||
:*KONCOMrun_throw_bk_tgt is missing "drop weapon" flag. | |||
:*STRCOMthrow_fw is missing 1 frame soft pause (required exactly for this animation, otherwise player can do punch forward bug). | |||
Also, I think throws as a whole need one big revisit in terms of [[OBD:TRAM/raw0x34|animation]] and end interpolation ([[TRAM]], field 0x178). If there will be multiplayer, then I have to admit that my system IS unfair in terms of vulerability of throwing animations, denying advantages of semi-vulnerable throws to some characters (Konoko). | |||
:After reading posts from other members ([[user:Love_Oni|Love_Oni]], [[user:Gumby|Gumby]], [[user:EdT|EdT]] etc.) and after a few quick tests, this is what I mean: | |||
:*ALL throw-related animations (thrower, thrown) should be semi-vulnerable, so we need to tweak those which cause character to end facing different way. Either modify them so they make victim turn back (Konoko's lariat case: force victim to turn 360°, not 180°) or adjust animation so it ends in very mild angle, max 45° from original facing should be OK (Elite's back throw). Goal is to make "sliding" back to original facing more acceptable (less eye-tearing). | |||
:*About throwers: | |||
:::Animations need to end sooner and fully use "end interpolation". This would make thrower more dynamic, able to launch attacks or to escape fluently from end of throw animation. | |||
:::Demonstration [http://loser.oni2.net/Videos/Throws_modification_001.wmv VIDEO], KONCOMrun_throw_fw. You can see that although animation ends sooner (it is mercilessly trimmed via 0x16C in [[TRAM]]), thanks to a bit higher end interpolation it looks almost same as original, plus giving character more agility. | |||
:::In conjunction with thrower being vulnerable as soon as it is possible (depends on animation) this feature would speed up gameplay. And I am not talking about mashing buttons, but about reduction of "grab-one-guy-after-another-from-crowd" and "hit-thrower-even-tough-he-looks-battle-ready-but-is-not" situations. Still, window where thrower can be hurt should be big enough to force wise throwing. | |||
:*About throwns: | |||
:::I have discovered another bug which is not usually harmful, but in case of throwns it is. If we set soft pause (0x152 [[TRAM]]) to some non-zero value, then we can simulate character lying on ground in pain (unable to do a thing for a set number of frames). Drawback is, that on '''narrow surfaces''' thrown animations with non-zero soft pause behave weird, sometimes causing victim to play "air knockdown" as if victim was in the air. Plus he usually takes no dmg then (frame of damage is not played as animation is replaced). Thanks to this we cannot set soft pauses for throwns properly. | |||
:::Yet another problem is that we have two kinds of fallen animations in Oni - Konoko's (female) and Striker's (male). Count out special Zombie Shinatama's one, please ^_^. Now when some character is thrown, it plays thrown anim which ends either in female or male fallen position, depending on how Steve animated it. Nuisance is, when male is thrown but anim ends in female fallen position, character is set up for transition to female fallen position at the end of thrown anim. Then, after thrown anim ends, this male character "jerks" to his right fallen position. Looks awful. | |||
:::I suggest solution for both of those above - reanimate endings of thrown animations. Extend them a bit (depends on animations of course), that would simulate soft pause (I assume that all throwns are vulnerable as soon as possible). And reanimate ending, so character ends in some medicore pose from which he can interpolate to both male and female fallen position without looking weird. | |||
::: Also, in terms of damaging - I suggest to use [[PAR3]]s instead of internal [[OBD:TRAM/raw0x18|Damage part]] for some thrown damages, mainly for those caused by smashing/tossing victim. Bone-breaking and neck snaping should still use damage part. | |||
:::Point is that then we can easily create wall collision for such throws, at least I think we can. Then if character is thrown by Tanker's back throw near ledge, it would not cause damage because character flew over and didn't hit hard surface. If we talk about small heights - in small height animation is still played, ready to deal damage. And in case of higher height, well, gravitation does work for Tanker. Also, if he performs back throw and flings victim into wall, victim would be damaged by hitting a wall. | |||
:--[[User:Loser|Loser]] 14:49, 23 November 2008 (CET) | |||
'''\NOTE''' | |||