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Oni2:Slaves of War/Polylectiloquy: Difference between revisions
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, 14 October 2011→Is the Daodan dangerous for humans? How is it being transplanted, exactly?: more sciencey stuff
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:The only fact we have to go on with the Daodan is that it had to be grown along with human tissue in a controlled environment. Later, this Chrysalis was able to be implanted in Muro and Mai. So either Hasegawa and Kerr had to "train" the Daodan to get along with human DNA, or else there was no training needed and they were simply being cautious and ethical in trying to study the Daodan on tissue instead of real people. As to <u>how</u> the Daodan organism is isolated and introduced to human tissue, this largely depends on the nature of the Daodan. The process is probably simplest if the Daodan is a genetic process, as considered above under "What are the Daodan Chrysalises, really?" in the Enigmata section. Then one would simply have to place some Daodan-infected cells from the Wilderness into human cells. Any specifics of the process aren't terribly important from our perspective, except for the question of whether the Daodan needs to be coaxed into new tissue/DNA, or if it takes to it easily. | :The only fact we have to go on with the Daodan is that it had to be grown along with human tissue in a controlled environment. Later, this Chrysalis was able to be implanted in Muro and Mai. So either Hasegawa and Kerr had to "train" the Daodan to get along with human DNA, or else there was no training needed and they were simply being cautious and ethical in trying to study the Daodan on tissue instead of real people. As to <u>how</u> the Daodan organism is isolated and introduced to human tissue, this largely depends on the nature of the Daodan. The process is probably simplest if the Daodan is a genetic process, as considered above under "What are the Daodan Chrysalises, really?" in the Enigmata section. Then one would simply have to place some Daodan-infected cells from the Wilderness into human cells. Any specifics of the process aren't terribly important from our perspective, except for the question of whether the Daodan needs to be coaxed into new tissue/DNA, or if it takes to it easily. | ||
:One would tend to think that if the Daodan easily acclimates to any new genetic home, then the Daodan would be contagious. This is never indicated in Oni, and tends to take us in a direction we don't want to go, where the Daodan could easily spread to everyone in the world and lose its specialness. Better to keep it as something that needs to be deliberately implanted. | :One would tend to think that if the Daodan easily acclimates to any new genetic home, then the Daodan would be contagious. This is never indicated in Oni, and tends to take us in a direction we don't want to go, where the Daodan could easily spread to everyone in the world and lose its specialness. Better to keep it as something that needs to be deliberately implanted. This also leads us to the conclusion that the plants of the Wilderness that are causing the pollution (if indeed the Wilderness is the source of the pollution, as discussed above under "What is the nature of the pollution?") cannot be Earth plants which merely mutated, as there was no one intentionally implanting all of those plants with the Daodan. Therefore they must be plants native to the world that the Daodan comes from, which have already been enhanced by the Daodan. | ||
: | :If having the Daodan be non-contagious is the desired situation, then we can ask, Why would the Daodan perform so well in a human host when implanted properly, and yet be unable to spread without human aid? Perhaps the answer lies, not in the Daodan, but in our own immune system. If a sample of human tissue is allowed to be infected by the Daodan while it is <u>separated</u> from the subject's body and its immune system components, then the Daodan could replace the cells in that sample with its own improved versions. The tissue could perhaps then be re-implanted without triggering an immune response. | ||
:Kerr tells us that the Chrysalises were being grown "based on the genetic codes of" Mai and Muro. One way to interpret that is that they had extracted portions of tissue, or perhaps used their stem cells to generate a new mass of tissue, and introduced the Daodan to them; perhaps they used a sample from a plant or animal in the Wilderness that they found to be Daodan-enhanced. If the Daodan organism is something as low-level as a genetic process (see the [[Oni2:Slaves of War/Neo-Biology#Daodan organism|Neo-Biology]] page for details), then the idea is that it can leap from species to species, so the source of the Daodan "genes" is not important. Then, when it was eventually decided to implant the Daodanized tissue back into Mai and Muro, Hasegawa and Kerr would have needed some way to take the tissue that had been modified outside their bodies and re-introduce it. | |||
:The means for this process can be found in a cutting-edge field known as [[wikipedia:Regenerative_medicine|regenerative medicine]]. Papers such as [http://www.freshpatents.com/Multilayered-composite-for-organ-augmentation-and-repair-dt20080403ptan20080081362.php this patent application] <!--alternate link from USPTO itself, not sure if it expires after a while: http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220080081362%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20080081362&RS=DN/20080081362--> demonstrate a means by which autologous cells (one's own cells, not a donor's) can be extracted, altered, and re-implanted using a degradable matrix. As ¶30 says, | |||
{{Pullquote|Alternatively, the tissue or cellularized (cell) sample may be treated in vitro before being placed on the scaffold layer. For example, cells (such as autologous cells) can be cultured in vitro to increase the number of cells available for seeding on the scaffold(s). The use of allogenic cells, and more preferably autologous cells, is preferred to prevent tissue rejection. In certain embodiments, chimeric cells, or cells from a transgenic animal, can be seeded onto the polymeric matrix. Cells can also be transfected prior to seeding with genetic material. Useful genetic material may be, for example, genetic sequences which are capable of reducing or eliminating an immune response in the host. For example, the expression of cell surface antigens such as class I and class II histocompatibility antigens may be suppressed. This may allow the transplanted cells to have reduced chance of rejection by the host. In addition, transfection could also be used for gene delivery. Urothelial and muscle cells could be transfected with specific genes prior to polymer seeding. The cell-polymer construct could carry genetic information required for the long term survival of the host or the tissue engineered neo-organ.}} | |||
:This method can work not just for replacing missing organs, but, as ¶31 says, | |||
{{Pullquote| In particular, hollow organs, such as bladder, urethra, jejunum, esophagus, trachea, colon, and stomach may benefit from placement of the present composite as a "patch" in an area requiring tissue augmentation or regeneration. For example, regarding the bladder, if an area of the bladder is missing due to congenital defect or has been lost due to disease, injury or surgery (e.g., partial cystectomy), the patient may benefit from having the bladder area increased or restored to the original size as the particulars of the case allows.}} | |||
:This Daodan "patch", if it was grown from, say, pancreas cells, could then be re-introduced to the pancreas in the host and allowed to re-integrate over time. Presumably from there, the Daodan does its own thing automatically. Again, the intention behind this series of steps is to allow the Daodan to be non-contagious, but still fairly easy to implant (thus explaining how Hasegawa could have figured it out in just a few years' time), and also to mesh with what Kerr was talking about when he refers to the Daodan Chrysalis being grown outside Mai's body at first. | |||
:Considering how potent the Daodan is, and "user-friendly", it's quite convenient if our immune system can defeat the Daodan if coming into casual contact with it. One almost wonders if that was designed that way.... | |||
===What is the role of the Daodan organism? Was it designed?=== | ===What is the role of the Daodan organism? Was it designed?=== | ||