Talk:Tanker: Difference between revisions

Talk:Tanker (view source)

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Iritscen

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 #I'm colorblind too, but seriously, don't you believe in the color-picking-and-analyzing tool of your favorite drawing program? Huh...
 #Stats differ a lot within a specific "version" and are being affected by the Anniversary Edition. To document them now is a bad idea.
-#Technically, Tankers inherit a lot of moves from Comguys, even though the AI don't use them much or at all: [[Gameplay/Combat moves]]<br>Therefore I think mini-overviews are redundant and pretty much pointless. I would rather spend time on the global database (thumbs etc).<br>All the moves are actually named in the [[MELE]] profiles, but those names are often generic, and won't add much to the interest of this page.<br>Exhaustive detail from the binaries would totally drown the rest of the material, and BTW it wouldn't even be reliable because of the Edition.
+#Technically, Tankers inherit a lot of moves from Comguys, even though the AI don't use them much or at all: [[Combat moves]]<br>Therefore I think mini-overviews are redundant and pretty much pointless. I would rather spend time on the global database (thumbs etc).<br>All the moves are actually named in the [[MELE]] profiles, but those names are often generic, and won't add much to the interest of this page.<br>Exhaustive detail from the binaries would totally drown the rest of the material, and BTW it wouldn't even be reliable because of the Edition.
 #The global database has stimulated (without much success) the creation of standardized GIFs of the moves. Thumbs would be nice too.<br>As for the permissions, it's not like you have asked the permission to all the folks from DeviantArt before featuring their Oni art here, right?
 #Tankers actually have a very interesting development background. All 3 [[ONCC]] use the same [[TRAC]] but there are 6 different [[MELE]] profiles.<br>The extra 3 MELE are the relicts of early experimentation (along with the tanker_casual [[ONCV]] etc) but are actually used by Tankers in Oni.<br>A thorough overview of the 6 MELE profiles would be sick, and in any case it has nothing to do on a "public interest" page about Tankers.
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 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 02:47, 13 March 2008 (CET)
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-The main thing I have to respond on is that I appreciate what you're saying about the purpose of the Tanker page. I agree that it would be nice to have an "in-world" page, one that focuses on the character within Oni's world, not his melee AI and techniques. But I ''also'' wanted to clearly document techniques and stats as a more technical kind of reference article. I now see that the appropriate place for that would be [[Gameplay/Combat_moves/Tanker]]. Written out like Konoko's page, but with a clear explanation of the key presses for each combo, and perhaps (eventually) with animated GIFs illustrating each move so the user can identify what it is we're talking about. K's page itself would of course have to be fixed up this way. I get the impression that no one ever considered her page finished.
+The main thing I have to respond on is that I appreciate what you're saying about the purpose of the Tanker page. I agree that it would be nice to have an "in-world" page, one that focuses on the character within Oni's world, not his melee AI and techniques. But I ''also'' wanted to clearly document techniques and stats as a more technical kind of reference article. I now see that the appropriate place for that would be [[Combat_moves/Tanker]]. Written out like Konoko's page, but with a clear explanation of the key presses for each combo, and perhaps (eventually) with animated GIFs illustrating each move so the user can identify what it is we're talking about. K's page itself would of course have to be fixed up this way. I get the impression that no one ever considered her page finished.
 :"Slowmo is only apparent. The actual GIFs are real-time, but the playback speed seems to fluctuate a lot."
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 :'''if we have that much free time on our hands that we don't know what to do with.''' Now ''that'' one just isn't gonna happen.
 :'''Yeah, it wouldn't be fast, converting video to GIFs takes time''' That's why I absolutely do not advise you to do any of this...
-:'''I now see that the appropriate place for that would be [[Gameplay/Combat_moves/Tanker]]''' Well, yes and no, and rather no.
+:'''I now see that the appropriate place for that would be [[Combat_moves/Tanker]]''' Well, yes and no, and rather no.
 :GIFs are a bitch, let's face it. Nifty feature, but a virtual time sink for both modders and wiki editors (you, me, them, everybody).
 :And without the GIFs, the current tables are good enough (a parallel overview is ideal when it comes to inherited animations).
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 :Have a look at the new [[Quotes/Manual#CHARACTER_BIOS_-_FRIENDS_AND_FOES|manual section]]. Hope it helps. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 03:57, 19 March 2008 (CET)
 ::Wow, nice, geyser. What this indicates to me, and let's see if you agree, is that there is no more need for a page dedicated to Tankers, another dedicated to Ninjas, etc., in any general way. So we could delete the Tanker page. ''BUT'', I still see usefulness in writing subpages under "Combat moves" that list moves and key comboes that trigger them. I think that's the only info missing now, aside from stats, which for now are impractical to document. I would like to move the (draft of a) moves list on "Tanker" to a subpage of "Combat moves", so let's leave this page up for now. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 14:58, 19 March 2008 (CET)
-::Okay, as an example of what I'm thinking of doing with all playable characters, look at [[Gameplay/Combat moves/KONOKO]] and tell me if it looks promising (it's not totally done, of course). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:55, 19 March 2008 (CET)
+::Okay, as an example of what I'm thinking of doing with all playable characters, look at [[Combat moves/KONOKO]] and tell me if it looks promising (it's not totally done, of course). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 16:55, 19 March 2008 (CET)
 :'''there is no more need for a page dedicated to Tankers, another dedicated to Ninjas, etc., in any general way''' If by general you mean tedious/redundant/procrastinatory, we agree.
 :As for a collection of facts, added value and other related stuff, it is always welcome. So no, we will not delete the Tanker page, and it's a bit of a shame that you should feel that way.
 :As an Oni devotee, I think there's much to say about Tankers beyond listing combat stats or paraphrasing existing databases, be it the manual or the lookup table for melee TRAM...
-:'''as an example of what I'm thinking of doing with all playable characters, look at Gameplay/Combat moves/KONOKO''' Without extra GIFs it's 100% redundant of the big table, sorry.
+:'''as an example of what I'm thinking of doing with all playable characters, look at Combat moves/KONOKO''' Without extra GIFs it's 100% redundant of the big table, sorry.
 :Also, making "duh" sections for basic punches and kicks rather than for whole set of punch or kick combos (e.g., PPP and PPK together) is an awful waste of space/time/whatever...
 :I guess more detailed overviews of related tactics could make this less of an insult to intelligence, but then you have to ask yourself: how long until you're bored with writing these?
 :Like any systematic initiative, it's all very nice, but: please consider the time it will take to implement, and its actual use to the public in the event of total implementation success...
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:16, 20 March 2008 (CET)
-:Now for a constructive proposal. I think systematic rationalization of pages such as Gameplay/Combat moves/KONOKO is yet another unfathomable time sink. So, leave it.
+:Now for a constructive proposal. I think systematic rationalization of pages such as Combat moves/KONOKO is yet another unfathomable time sink. So, leave it.
 :Your take on the Crescent Moon Kick, however, is quite inspired. I encourage you to create stubs dedicated to single techniques or complementary sets, in 100% free form.
 :I do not encourage you to sit down and record GIFs to illustrate those stubs, let alone to go crazy with "standardized" ones. Feel free to use any already available content...