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Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Digest: Difference between revisions
→Dangerousness of Daodan: sorry if too much
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== | ===Follow-up question: was the Daodan's danger really clear from the beginning?=== | ||
:"we couldn't get backup from any legitimate source" | :"we couldn't get backup from any legitimate source" | ||
For the beginning it is way too early to argue the Daodan is the perfect weapon. They had only theories and prototypes. They were not sure what mutations could emerge - the Daodan could turn out to be a flop. Some proof is needed. | ::For the beginning it is way too early to argue the Daodan is the perfect weapon. They had only theories and prototypes. They were not sure what mutations could emerge - the Daodan could turn out to be a flop. Some proof is needed. | ||
::Also it seems the WCG is very strict about high tech and regenerative meds, see inaction: letting people die because of overpopulation. | |||
Also it seems the WCG is very strict about high tech and regenerative meds, see inaction: letting people die because of overpopulation. | ::See Bertram Navarre (propaganda: pirate island, really?). Look at all the science prisons. They are there but we tend to ignore them. | ||
See Bertram Navarre (propaganda: pirate island, really?). Look at all the science prisons. They are there but we tend to ignore them. | ::In that context it is rather "normal" that Kerr and Hasegawa couldn't get funding. | ||
::The game worked because there was a high focus on Mai(?). But as the stories continues more question pop up. This is maybe more of a general concern than a specific critic. | |||
In that context it is rather "normal" that Kerr and Hasegawa couldn't get funding. | ::Of course Barabas and older Muro show the danger but add quite late to the picture. --[[User:Paradox-01|paradox-01]] ([[User talk:Paradox-01|talk]]) 20:29, 20 May 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::0. I am not sure I am getting your argument, so feel free to reformulate/elaborate later. | |||
The game worked because there was a high focus on Mai(?). But as the stories continues more question pop up. This is maybe more of a general concern than a specific critic. | :::1. "we couldn't get backup from any legitimate source" is just Kerr fumbling for words as he tells Mai's story, so it's full of understatement and open to interpretation. But it ''does'' imply that the project was too risky and/or unethical by WCG standards. This means that Hasegawa's "official plan" - to make the human civilization pollution-resistant - was never going to work, one way or another. He couldn't make/spread the cure with WCG support, and he couldn't complete the project under the Syndicate's wing, either - because giving out the cure to everyone is "too nice" and brings no new profit or influence. At "best", the Syndicate would have ended up ''selling'' Chrysalises to the highest bidder, maybe with extra bio-terrorism to motivate their clients - which is close enough to what we see in Oni (Muro's STURMANDERUNG), but hardly in line with Hasegawa's altruism. | ||
:::2. "the WCG is very strict about high tech and regenerative meds, see inaction: letting people die because of overpopulation." -- sorry, I don't see what you're getting at. That the WCG wouldn't have backed up the Daodan project even if it was proven 100% safe and ethical and kawaii? (because if undermines the WCG's authority by taking away the BioCrisis threat) - well, sure, that's one of my points too, but it does ''not'' demonstrate that the Daodan looked 100% safe and ethical and kawaii when the project started - by design it's "smart cancer" that overcomes disease by filling you with tumors. | |||
Of course Barabas and older Muro show the danger but add quite late to the picture. --[[User:Paradox-01|paradox-01]] ([[User talk:Paradox-01|talk]]) 20:29, 20 May 2020 (CEST) | :::3. Even if the Daodan did not seem dangerous at the planning stage (and was rejected by the WCG for other reasons), the risks certainly became clear while working on the first prototypes. When Kerr says "we never planned to implant those Chrysalises", he can only mean that the risks for Muro and Mai were too great. Whe he implanted Mai's Chrysalis later, it took some hard persuasion from Griffin. | ||
:::4. "See Bertram Navarre (propaganda: pirate island, really?)." You are suggesting that the Picasso Island record is a badly written cover-up, but for what, exactly? Admittedly it's a bit cheesy, but you can't dismiss all of Oni's cheesiness as propaganda, or there won't be much left. By the way, it's not a pirate island, but a freak scientist's lab; the pirates were just hired to abduct test subjects. | |||
:::5. "Look at all the science prisons. They are there but we tend to ignore them." We played Oni, we know Kerr is Griffin's "pet doctor", we have visited a Science Prison, so who tends to ignore what? | |||
:::6. "The game worked because there was a high focus on Mai(?). But as the stories continues more question pop up." I have no idea what this "general concern" is about, sorry. Please reformulate. | |||
:::7. "Of course Barabas and older Muro show the danger but add quite late to the picture." It's OK if a game starts by trivializing the Daodan (superpowers, yay!) and reveals sinister aspects later. If that's what your previous point was about, then I see no contradiction. Whether she's brainwashed or not, Mai knows as little about the Chrysalis as the player when the game starts. It is implied that she never experienced the "overpower effect" and had no idea that she's not like "other people". Of course it's "just a gameplay choice", but there are also reports of her training at TCTF HQ: she is treated like a normal trainee, the "Daodan spikes" observed by the science staff are not revealed to her, and training staff is having a hard time reining her in - because their tongues are tied. | |||
:::8. I really think you should separate the player's (Mai's) level of knowledge (guinea pig level) from Hasegawa's and Kerr's understanding of what's going on (inventor/designer/researcher level). When telling Mai about the Syndicate's raid, Kerr admits that he didn't see it coming - "They left us alone for the most part. We didn't think they were interested in our work. We were wrong." - but it also makes sense to him that the Syndicate took over the project once they realized its potential - "They has been watching us very closely. When they figured out what the Chrysalis was, they raided our lab." It doesn't matter if the Syndicate saw the Chrysalis as a weapon or as a source of profit - the risk of the Chrysalis falling in the wrong hands was clear both to Kerr and to Hasegawa. | |||
:::9. From the TNZ perspective, the risk of the Syndicate stealing the initiative on the Daodan project was so obvious to Hasegawa that it became part of the plan. The realization - spontaneous or helped by the "true Mukade" - came at least at this point in time (while working under the Syndicate's wing, but before the raid), if not earlier. Also, this time range (initial research at the Syndicate, before the raid) offers good opportunity for meeting/exchanging/plotting with the true Mukade - Hasegawa's lack of intuition and determination is compensated by Mukade's insight. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 00:25, 21 May 2020 (CEST) | |||