Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions

::::::::::::::::::::::"The wide band of asphalt has me wondering if you can super-contain and super-conceal at the same time." What, you mean the ''very ample parking'' that the WCG has thoughtfully placed around the Preserves? Strange that they built such a big parking lot when it's so hard to get a permit to go on a safari in those Preserves, but hey, that's government efficiency for you. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:22, 30 July 2020 (CEST)

::::::::::::::::::::::Serious answer: It all depends on how far the Preserves are from the Cities, how many people are asking questions, and how total the WCG's control is over information leaks. Yes, the "poor wretches" working on the reclamation team ("reclamation wretches"?) know the truth, but who listens to them? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:22, 30 July 2020 (CEST)

:::::::::::::::::::::Let me re-state my position re: the "actual" Wilderness threat as you envision it "during Oni 2": with daodanimals pointing their noses, and insect swarms ''finally'' joining the airborne seeding fun, Nausicaa-style (sorry, but the analogy with the modus propagandi of the Sea of Corruption is too exact to overlook). I understand that your story ultimately presents it all as ''the'' threat faced by the protagonist and by humanity in general, but in my impression, such a development would work best if it's one of ''several'' major concerns. Phase hazards, META issues (civilization alienated from within/above, rather than "evicted" by alienated flora/fauna) and belligerent human factions -- those are just a few things that could shift the focus from WPs back to urban areas time and again. My feeling is that it would ensure some variety and keep the plot from being dominated by a Wilderness fetish that's too "green" and (yes, sorry) Nausicaa-like. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 03:32, 30 July 2020 (CEST)  

::::::::::::::::::::::Too many threats. Unless you plan to join some of them with a common root that the good guys can attack. Otherwise you've just produced a [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld Crapsack World] that no one can do anything about and that players don't want to live in. But to be clear, I never suggested making the whole game about fighting the Wilderness. Then it would be called Reclamation Wretches, and that's a totally different game ("Press X to customize your flamethrower…"). For my ideas on other aspects of the story besides dealing with the Wilderness, see the [[Oni2:Slaves of War/Factions|Factions]] page. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:22, 30 July 2020 (CEST)

::::::::::::::::I don't know that a page dedicated to gaps would be that useful, as it would require another sprawling conversation full of inter-related points, but certainly it would be better than having that discussion here (this page would be crashing our browser by now if it was still 2008, and in 2020 it's starting to spin up my laptop's fans as I type). And honestly, I don't know if another major story discussion is the best use of our time. I think just about ''anything'' else we could do (wiki maintenance, tool development, etc.) would be a better use of our time. So I can't promise to participate, if such a page does get started. But FWIW, I could go along with several of your answers above. Barabas' backstory actually seems pretty plain vanilla to me. He rose through the ranks of the Strikers until Muro noticed him. He probably challenged Muro, perhaps for leadership of the Syndicate, and Muro kicked his butt (Muro is the "someone stronger"). Muro decided to use him as a guinea pig for implantation, since if it didn't work, Barabas would be out of his hair, but if it did work, he'd be dependent on Muro for maintaining the suit which keeps him stable. This is of course just guesswork on my part. To me, the secondary symbiotes Mukade and Barabas are both clearly less stable and capable than Muro and Mai, the result of Hasegawa pulling his support from the Daodan project and going into hiding some time before. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:22, 30 July 2020 (CEST)

:::::::::::::::::In the right proportion, and given enough good will and on-the-same-page-ness, these discussions don't have to confiscate any more of our lives than, say, Discord chat. And it would be project-oriented of course. We'd fill in gaps with specific Oni mods and sequels in mind, so supposedly that would make it all better -- and even failing that, it would feed back into wiki maintenance, by consolidating "Added Value" and factual sections all over the place. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 22:48, 30 July 2020 (CEST)

:::::::::::::Specifically on what you said up there: indeed Griffin's "pet doctors" wouldn't be able to just go and google up Wilderness lifeforms from their Science Prison quarters. On the other hand, prisoners can't blab, so if there's any classified knowledge that can help in analyzing the Daodan, then there's nothing that's keeping the Directorate from sharing that information with Griffin's science team. However, if we adopt BGI as an important faction and the WCG's true response to Muro and STURMANDERUNG, then perhaps there isn't much interest in Daodan development at all -- Kerr&Co are supposed to cautiously experiment with Konoko, and then BGI will just crush Muro and the Strikers, shutting down STURMANDERUNG and leaving Griffin with no reason to keep Konoko alive. If that's what the WCG's game is, then indeed it makes sense if Daodan scientists are left in the black about the alien/Daodan nature of the Wilderness. And of course all of that is moot if no one at the time of Oni's events is actually aware of the subtle Daodan influence on WP plants, let alone of Diluvians being the source of that influence. The best kept secrets are ones that ''no one'' knows about. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2020 (CEST)

:::::::::::::As for whether Hasegawa and Kerr knew the truth -- I feel like we haven't even started debating how much those 2001 Bungie-made characters ''should'' have known about all that Diluvian business that ''we'' made up eons later ^_^ In my view, if you scrap the Diluvians ([[wp:Pierre-Simon_Laplace#I_had_no_need_of_that_hypothesis|Laplace-]] and [[wp:Occam's_razor|Occam]]-style), then there doesn't need to be ''any'' link or similarity ''at all'' between Hasegawa's Chrysalis research and the virulent pathogens from the Contaminated Zones (whether they're poisonous bushes, pools of goo, WMD payloads, etc) -- well, no link apart from how the Contaminated Zones have an ample store of threats that the Chrysalis is supposed to counter. If that's what the Wilderness is (nothing ''too'' special), then Hasegawa merely regards it as a versatile repository of "stress or harm" (and incidentally "the nightmare that killed Jamie", hence his quest for a palliative). If, however, some of the flora in the Zones ''is'' phase-enhanced, then it's something that Hasegawa may have identified during his preliminary research -- after which he would have naturally tried to emulate some of those symbiotic properties in his own experiments (like synthetic cell-sized organelles that allow a Daodan entity to "stay online" after a first contact with a human host). Whichever it is, and whether an ancient race of symbiotes has anything to do with it, I think we both agree that the Daodan entities that exalted Konoko and Muro are two distinct phase entities, and also quite distinct from the entity/entities that may be influencing WP flora through phase-induced mutation. Therefore it might make sense that neither Hasegawa not Kerr&Co have actually drawn much of a connection. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:48, 5 July 2020 (CEST)