Talk:Daodan

converting the survivors into genetically clean and better humans. (übermensch, eh??? geyser)

The accent here is on "survivors". Let me try a more or less fitting (spontaneous) analogy.

Before the Industrial Revolution, farmers used to thrash the corn by hand and then they had to separate the corn from the hulls.

"Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen." When thrown in the air, the hulls were blown away by the wind. In Oni we have a "Sturm"...

Now we could imagine what people are going to think. Nobody knows whether he's the corn or the hulls.

(logical link???) So, I think that the Syndicate wouldn't admit the Daodan's true potential - genetically speaking.

(logical link???) And even if the survivors will become "Übermenschen". What is it worth if their minds are altered/corrupted?

paradox-01

My "übermensch" comment was a little gratuitous; I was ranting on the overused neonazi formalism.

I didn't object to anything in particular, which is probably why your response is very messy, too.

Daodan is most definitely "boundless", and potentially superhuman (unless you make up bounds).

In that respect, anti-eugenism propaganda would make sense, regardless of Nietzsche and Hitler.

geyser 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

The Syndicate would indeed have less trouble concealing the Daodan's potential than Hasegawa had.

After all, the pre-Muro Syndicate actually needed (or thought they needed) a Universal Soldier.

The people in the aftermath just "don't wanna die", so what they need is a resilience patch.

If there is no anti-Daodan propaganda, you might sell the Daodan as "just" a resilience patch.

However, the motivation and feasibility of "Daodan to the people" is not obvious.

And it would take only a few serious opponents to spoil the appeal of the Daodan.

The alienation issue complements the "sorta eugenism" and makes the Daodan taboo.

geyser 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

"Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen" seems to be a German-only analogy: I've never heard of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's mostly about "natural selection": survival at any cost.

If the survivors let their "leaders" decide who'll be saved, they're giving their lives away.

Some of them might play that Survivor game and try their best to be "selected" for salvation.

Others will draw their strength from the fact that they don't need miracles to stay alive.

Your reaction up there is not too structured, but I guess we're talking of the same things.

Distributing the Daodan in any form will complicate the issue of survival, not solve it.

There's the fear of alienation, and there's the horror of "putting one's soul up for sale".

geyser 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

how many [Daodan] do you think they have??? and how can they "distribute" matching clones to total strangers???

At least enough for themselves. Let's say half a million (distributed all over the world). If they are willing to distribute, "Beta Daodan" comes to mind again.

My idea of the Daodan is that it has a "genetic concept" for self-improvement and doesn't depend on "minor" differences in the DNA. (At least it was developed for a human DNA.)

paradox-01

Hm, "the Chrysalis is the hyperevolved clone of its host body". Generic, really?

The Prime Chrysalises were "based on the genetic codes of [Mai] and [Muro]": generic?

A "generic" Daodan would be nice, but it would be a major improvement over the Primes.

But then you'd want that generic thing to be somehow inferior to the Primes (Beta). Äh?

All in all, you're saying that the Syndicate has completely instrumentalized the Daodan.

That's not too likely, given that every symbiote is basically unique and unpredictable.

It's also a regrettable waste of a perfectly good "autoevolutionary machine" concept.

The Daodan is nice if it's uncontrollable and a bit mystical (trap; Pandora's box).

You're devaluating it if you make it into an instrumental, versatile gadget. IMO.

geyser 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

As far as I can tell, the development cycle of (Prime) Chrysalises is as follows.

Stem cells from the host are exposed to a hyperevolution factor (details unknown).

This hyperevolved clone is grown over a few days/weeks/months, closely monitored.

The "Chrysalis" (basically, a small tumor) is then implanted back into the host.

Then the tumor assimilates and upgrades the genetically compatible host, in-place.

A possible improvement could be that the clone is grown without human monitoring.

Such a "Daodan kit" (syringe + "lab on a chip") would still be high-tech, though.

You could give away a few of those to rich survivors (Muro's supposed ultimatum).

But it's not something that can be mass-produced and distributed to the public IMO.

(it also depends a lot on what the factor of hyperevolution is... is it rare?)

Of course, this is totally off-topic here... We could move that to Talk:Daodan.

geyser 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

The Prime Chrysalises were "based on the genetic codes of [Mai] and [Muro]": generic?

Like I said before: My idea is that Hasegawa and Kerr discovered a "genetic concept" for self-improvment [=generic] (and not a factor, so it cannot be rare). But this "proto structure" is nothing without an host.

Kerr said: "The Chrysalis is the hyper-evolved clone of its host body."

(Didn't you said the same by your-self? "The "Chrysalis" (basically, a small tumor) is then implanted back into the host."

So the Chrysalis is "an upgrade plus the host DNA", IMO.

Paradox-01 20:20, 17 October 2007 (CEST)

All in all, you're saying that the Syndicate has completely instrumentalized the Daodan.

Well... What the Syndicate want and what they get is not the same. Because of the lack of time the Beta-Chrysalis won't be an option (maybe for very less people like testers but nothing more). But later ... is too late.

Paradox-01 20:20, 17 October 2007 (CEST)