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Part 2/2 of the post summary of the thread "A storyline for Oni 2" from OCF. The first 15 pages are found [[Oni2:Storyline/PostSummary1| | Part 2/2 of the post summary of the thread "A storyline for Oni 2" from OCF. The first 15 pages are found [[Oni2:A Storyline/PostSummary1|here]]. | ||
<div style="text-align: center;"> | <div style="text-align: center;"> | ||
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{| class="wikitable" align="center" | {| class="wikitable" align="center" | ||
! Post # | ! Post # | ||
! Post Link | <!--! Post Link--> | ||
! Poster | ! Poster | ||
! Keywords | ! Keywords | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 151 | | 151 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_2747 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_2747 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art, Mukade, Mai | | Art, Mukade, Mai | ||
| Explains that Konoko's smile doesn't mean she is happy to be with Mukade. She could be contemplating the irony, or perhaps it's her Chrysalis that is happy, resonating with Mukade's. Didn't spend much time conceptualizing bike, just wanted a "small assault vehicle". Posts a rough sketch, link is broken now [I suspect this is [[:Image: | | Explains that Konoko's smile doesn't mean she is happy to be with Mukade. She could be contemplating the irony, or perhaps it's her Chrysalis that is happy, resonating with Mukade's. Didn't spend much time conceptualizing bike, just wanted a "small assault vehicle". Posts a rough sketch, link is broken now [I suspect this is [[:Image:Guido - Mai Tandem 2.jpg|the pic]] I linked to in post #142's summary]. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 152 | | 152 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_2748 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_2748 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Vehicles, Mukade, Mai, Daodan | | Vehicles, Mukade, Mai, Daodan | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 153 | | 153 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3038 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3038 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Mukade, Mai, Themes | | Mukade, Mai, Themes | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 154 | | 154 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3043 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3043 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art, Vehicles | | Art, Vehicles | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 155 | | 155 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3077 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3077 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Art, Vehicles, Ninjas | | Art, Vehicles, Ninjas | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 156 | | 156 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3117 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3117 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Ninjas | | Ninjas | ||
| Points to Dark Horse's take on the ninja rods, but he doesn't think much of it. [Here's [[:Image: | | Points to Dark Horse's take on the ninja rods, but he doesn't think much of it. [Here's [[:Image:Okita - Ninja 2.jpg|the real answer]], per the guy who put the rods there, with a link to the Dark Horse comic's idea.] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 157 | | 157 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3127 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3127 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade, Daodan | | Mukade, Daodan | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 158 | | 158 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3135 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3135 here]--> | ||
| Seventeen Seconds | | Seventeen Seconds | ||
| Mukade | | Mukade | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 159 | | 159 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3137 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3137 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project, Gameplay | | Project, Gameplay | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 160 | | 160 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3161 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=15#post_3161 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 161 | | 161 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3162 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3162 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Mai, Daodan | | Mai, Daodan | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 162 | | 162 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3164 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3164 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| META, Mai, Mukade, Hasegawa, Kerr, | | META, Mai, Mukade, Hasegawa, Kerr, OtherChar, Shinatama, Barabas, Daodan, Themes | ||
| Introduces notion of META, a "technological mega-consortium run by the Syndicate++ state. It makes everything from weapons to vehicles to droids/SLDs/mechas/cyborgs(/Daodans?)". It's essentially the source of all technological innovation in the world. Questions how guido's notion of Konoko's motivation in blowing up the ACCs jives with the outro movie. Konoko had faith in the Daodan, almost blindly, thinking that it could be given to all the people. Perhaps this was additionally due to mental alienation caused by her Daodan Chrysalis. Agrees that giving everyone Chrysalises would practically lead to Armageddon, with Mutant Muros all over the place. Although perhaps that conflict is part of the "grand design", but that kind of climax couldn't happen until about halfway through Oni ''3''. But his explanation of Konoko's decision is that she wasn't "herself". Having to deal with that realization is what would lead to her trance and amnesia, as it wouldn't be possible to kill oneself as a Daodan host. But his version of the story does have this point in common with guido's, that she "dies" after Oni 1. The will of her human mind to remain human disrupts the Daodan's evolution and they both collapse into inactivity. The story of Oni 2 would be both Konoko regaining her mind, and the Daodan regaining its "mind", its programming to evolve its host. Whichever regains its strength first will win. If both regain strength and come into conflict again, the cycle will repeat (perhaps in Oni 3!). The solution might be learning to communicate with this "other mind". The other characters returning from Oni 1 might be able to help. Muro is an example of what happens when one gives in to the Daodan and loses one's own mind. But because Mai and Mukade are still resisting mentally, they can't achieve Imago. Agrees that we don't want to introduce a totally new villain with no connection to Oni 1's story. Wants to bring back Shinatama, who backed herself up (perhaps only partially) before being physically destroyed. Likes owldreamer's concept of Hikari being a resurrected Shinatama. But Shinatama 2 doesn't necessarily help Mai a lot, because at first she's scared of her, and also she doesn't know all the answers herself, pertaining to the Daodan and Mai's fate. Kerr did not survive Oni 1, but he could have left recordings with valuable information, perhaps anticipating some events in Oni 2 a la Hari Seldon [who predicts the future using mathematics in Asimov's "Foundation" novels]. Shinatama 2 might discover these recordings and selectively share them with Mai over time. Barabas could return, but in a non-notable role where he's hardly even recognizable -- just something for players of Oni 1 to catch. Repeats his doubts about the Hasegawa story: it was on a CD dropped by Mukade; he did all that research in just months [as mentioned in the summary of post #18, Hasegawa had up to 3 years]; and years later, at the time of Oni, there still isn't a "pending environmental crisis" [ [[Quotes/Consoles#BioCrisis|actually...]] ]. Thinks that Hasegawa was being tampered with in order to start the project and make such quick advancement (and this tampering may also involve Jamie's death); later on, he must have realized he was being influenced. He eventually implanted a Chrysalis in himself, before or after Muro, either to be able to understand what Muro would face, or to be able to watch over him if he doubted Muro's goodness, or to investigate the Daodan's mission himself. He knew to expect a battle of wills and was able to stay human, perhaps even achieving communication with his Chrysalis. Doesn't accept that Hasegawa and Kerr simply thought of the Daodan as a great cure for polluted air; they must have understood the deeper, darker implications. Perhaps Imagoes do consume themselves and Muro would have died soon after fighting Mai anyway. That would make the ones who resist full Imago, like Mai and Mukade, the strong ones. As long as they hold on to their humanity, they continue to get some of the benefits of the Daodan, but will remain vulnerable, unlike an Imago. That might be the only possibility for stability in a Daodan host. Perhaps the "grand design" behind the Daodan is actually to select these stronger-willed people, in order to face some danger or challenge. Only those "survivors" will be able to communicate with the beings guiding the Daodan; although that might be the subject of Oni 3. | | Introduces notion of META, a "technological mega-consortium run by the Syndicate++ state. It makes everything from weapons to vehicles to droids/SLDs/mechas/cyborgs(/Daodans?)". It's essentially the source of all technological innovation in the world. Questions how guido's notion of Konoko's motivation in blowing up the ACCs jives with the outro movie. Konoko had faith in the Daodan, almost blindly, thinking that it could be given to all the people. Perhaps this was additionally due to mental alienation caused by her Daodan Chrysalis. Agrees that giving everyone Chrysalises would practically lead to Armageddon, with Mutant Muros all over the place. Although perhaps that conflict is part of the "grand design", but that kind of climax couldn't happen until about halfway through Oni ''3''. But his explanation of Konoko's decision is that she wasn't "herself". Having to deal with that realization is what would lead to her trance and amnesia, as it wouldn't be possible to kill oneself as a Daodan host. But his version of the story does have this point in common with guido's, that she "dies" after Oni 1. The will of her human mind to remain human disrupts the Daodan's evolution and they both collapse into inactivity. The story of Oni 2 would be both Konoko regaining her mind, and the Daodan regaining its "mind", its programming to evolve its host. Whichever regains its strength first will win. If both regain strength and come into conflict again, the cycle will repeat (perhaps in Oni 3!). The solution might be learning to communicate with this "other mind". The other characters returning from Oni 1 might be able to help. Muro is an example of what happens when one gives in to the Daodan and loses one's own mind. But because Mai and Mukade are still resisting mentally, they can't achieve Imago. Agrees that we don't want to introduce a totally new villain with no connection to Oni 1's story. Wants to bring back Shinatama, who backed herself up (perhaps only partially) before being physically destroyed. Likes owldreamer's concept of Hikari being a resurrected Shinatama. But Shinatama 2 doesn't necessarily help Mai a lot, because at first she's scared of her, and also she doesn't know all the answers herself, pertaining to the Daodan and Mai's fate. Kerr did not survive Oni 1, but he could have left recordings with valuable information, perhaps anticipating some events in Oni 2 a la Hari Seldon [who predicts the future using mathematics in Asimov's "Foundation" novels]. Shinatama 2 might discover these recordings and selectively share them with Mai over time. Barabas could return, but in a non-notable role where he's hardly even recognizable -- just something for players of Oni 1 to catch. Repeats his doubts about the Hasegawa story: it was on a CD dropped by Mukade; he did all that research in just months [as mentioned in the summary of post #18, Hasegawa had up to 3 years]; and years later, at the time of Oni, there still isn't a "pending environmental crisis" [ [[Quotes/Consoles#BioCrisis|actually...]] ]. Thinks that Hasegawa was being tampered with in order to start the project and make such quick advancement (and this tampering may also involve Jamie's death); later on, he must have realized he was being influenced. He eventually implanted a Chrysalis in himself, before or after Muro, either to be able to understand what Muro would face, or to be able to watch over him if he doubted Muro's goodness, or to investigate the Daodan's mission himself. He knew to expect a battle of wills and was able to stay human, perhaps even achieving communication with his Chrysalis. Doesn't accept that Hasegawa and Kerr simply thought of the Daodan as a great cure for polluted air; they must have understood the deeper, darker implications. Perhaps Imagoes do consume themselves and Muro would have died soon after fighting Mai anyway. That would make the ones who resist full Imago, like Mai and Mukade, the strong ones. As long as they hold on to their humanity, they continue to get some of the benefits of the Daodan, but will remain vulnerable, unlike an Imago. That might be the only possibility for stability in a Daodan host. Perhaps the "grand design" behind the Daodan is actually to select these stronger-willed people, in order to face some danger or challenge. Only those "survivors" will be able to communicate with the beings guiding the Daodan; although that might be the subject of Oni 3. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 163 | | 163 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3171 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3171 here]--> | ||
| TNT | | TNT | ||
| Shinatama, Kerr, Daodan, Gameplay | | Shinatama, Kerr, Daodan, Gameplay | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 164 | | 164 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3172 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3172 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Themes, Mai, | | Themes, Mai, OtherChar | ||
| Suggests the message of Oni 2 be: "Our strength lies in our imperfection. So does our inner beauty. Imperfection is key. Imperfection is what provides a dynamic aspect to our existence. Imperfection is our true essence." Interprets Kerr's and Mukade's words to Konoko to mean that she should resist the transformation. The true expression of a weak-willed person's nature is to give in to the Daodan and become an Imago, but those who resist, like Konoko, are the ones who are "beautiful" and "strong" in their imperfection and weakness. Compares falling in love as an act of giving up oneself to Mai's need to hold onto herself; she is always <u>falling</u> in love, but never fallen. Perhaps Mai ends up fighting Hikari because she thinks Hikari's hiding something from her. | | Suggests the message of Oni 2 be: "Our strength lies in our imperfection. So does our inner beauty. Imperfection is key. Imperfection is what provides a dynamic aspect to our existence. Imperfection is our true essence." Interprets Kerr's and Mukade's words to Konoko to mean that she should resist the transformation. The true expression of a weak-willed person's nature is to give in to the Daodan and become an Imago, but those who resist, like Konoko, are the ones who are "beautiful" and "strong" in their imperfection and weakness. Compares falling in love as an act of giving up oneself to Mai's need to hold onto herself; she is always <u>falling</u> in love, but never fallen. Perhaps Mai ends up fighting Hikari because she thinks Hikari's hiding something from her. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 165 | | 165 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3173 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3173 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Shinatama, Kerr, Mai, Daodan, Gameplay | | Shinatama, Kerr, Mai, Daodan, Gameplay | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 166 | | 166 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3187 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3187 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Mai, Mukade, Daodan, Themes, META | | Mai, Mukade, Daodan, Themes, META | ||
| Suggests that Mai and Mukade will have to learn that the Daodan is not the final answer, and overcome their fears so they don't lose themselves [I'm not totally sure I follow what guido is saying here]. Mai will need to learn to trust her father and/or someone else, and learn from Mukade. Interprets Mai's line "The Chrysalis will change us all" to refer to the changes she and Muro have brought about; the question is whether a new seed can be planted in this soil of chaos. Her "father's work" refers to something like a figurative change in humankind's perspective, not to giving everyone the Daodan [again, I feel like I'm translating a language I don't know here, this is a really difficult post for me]. A failed Imago such as Mai is like someone who refuses to grow up. But a failed Imago will still age, so 20 years is too long. He doesn't see Mai sleeping in some kind of suspended animation. Let's make it more like 7 years. The story could have three phases: Konoko struggling for control over her Chrysalis; then deciding to become an Imago to save the world; in the climax, we are introduced to the Seed, "and new horizons will arise". Likes idea of Meta Industries. They think that technology is the answer to all their problems. "In some sense Meta Industries are repeating the same errors from the past, and someone would have to change it." But he doesn't see Meta tech as being refined and elegant; they are always rushing to move to the next level, so their machines are built hastily. They also need to appear rarely, and be somewhat unstable, maybe dangerous to use, albeit capable of amazing things. Likens to concept of "If I had a Trow..." in Myth. | | Suggests that Mai and Mukade will have to learn that the Daodan is not the final answer, and overcome their fears so they don't lose themselves [I'm not totally sure I follow what guido is saying here]-->. Mai will need to learn to trust her father and/or someone else, and learn from Mukade. Interprets Mai's line "The Chrysalis will change us all" to refer to the changes she and Muro have brought about; the question is whether a new seed can be planted in this soil of chaos. Her "father's work" refers to something like a figurative change in humankind's perspective, not to giving everyone the Daodan [again, I feel like I'm translating a language I don't know here, this is a really difficult post for me]. A failed Imago such as Mai is like someone who refuses to grow up. But a failed Imago will still age, so 20 years is too long. He doesn't see Mai sleeping in some kind of suspended animation. Let's make it more like 7 years. The story could have three phases: Konoko struggling for control over her Chrysalis; then deciding to become an Imago to save the world; in the climax, we are introduced to the Seed, "and new horizons will arise". Likes idea of Meta Industries. They think that technology is the answer to all their problems. "In some sense Meta Industries are repeating the same errors from the past, and someone would have to change it." But he doesn't see Meta tech as being refined and elegant; they are always rushing to move to the next level, so their machines are built hastily. They also need to appear rarely, and be somewhat unstable, maybe dangerous to use, albeit capable of amazing things. Likens to concept of "If I had a Trow..." in Myth. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 167 | | 167 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3190 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3190 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| META, | | META, OtherChar, Shinatama, Mai, Mukade, Daodan, Vehicles, Phoenix, Themes | ||
| Questions why Meta tech can't be refined and elegant. And what threats is Meta responding to? Perhaps they seem to be doing it for their own reasons, not in response to a known threat. Implies that Mukade is the head inventor. As the devices are the product of an unearthly intelligence, they should be "wrong" somehow, beyond normal human understanding. And the Metabike is something that a normal human would not be agile enough to use, plus you have no body protection as you speed along. "The disturbing thing about it (as it will be for most other Meta-stuff) is that it's simply not meant for human operators." Agrees that Meta tech should be rare, but they can also have multiple variations on the same device, and vary them randomly like Oni does with ONCC body sizes. Doesn't agree with guido's interpretation of the outro monologue, as Konoko still made the choice to blow up the ACCs; did she do that out of fear of the Daodan or out of hope in it? Reiterates point about cause of Mai's amnesia; if she'd known from the start what the Daodan was, the struggle with it wouldn't have been too bad, but she only realized when it was almost too late to retain her faculties. Perhaps she is trapped in her own mind by the Daodan, which would allow for levels like the movie "The Cube". The Daodan is trying to track her down in her own mind, kind of like Agent Smith and Neo in the Matrix. She has to become even fitter mentally in order to continue to resist the Daodan's increasingly smart attacks. With regards to fear, Mai needs to learn to not be afraid of the Daodan, in order to cope with it. She can learn from Mukade, who is more experienced. Together they can walk a path perpendicular to the one the Daodan wants to evolve in, and find a new way. Dislikes idea of Mai deciding to give in to Imago, as this means alienation for the player. How can we even write a story around an alien intelligence? "The whole purpose of the Daodan may be to face strong minds with the threat of disappearing completely, and maintain that threat in order to make the human mind achieve a greater knowledge and control of itself as well as of the Daodan entity, develop at a whole new level (telepathy etc) while retaining its very essence. Ultimately, the human mind gets so strong that its strength and that of the Daodan are perfectly matched, and it's some kind of peaceful coexistence then." Seven years is not long enough to let Griffin be dead without having to specify how he died [Cf. Oni's forked ending], and to let the Cataclysm's effects die down. If it's too soon after the Cataclysm, people will be more likely to simply lynch Konoko. Reiterates idea of Mai joining a Rebellion, which allows for lots of individuals with separate motivations. When it's revealed who Mai is, they each have to take a stand on what to do about her. Similar to Oni 1, Mai would start off as a "clueless pawn" and gradually realize the truth. Shinatama/Hikari may have trouble understanding the new Mai, making their new relationship more complex. Disagrees that the host or the Daodan has to win; "as in the case of war, there is then no victor to speak of. True victory means ceasefire, compromise, cooperation, peace." We can show that the human spirit is strong even if the flesh is weak. This can mean an interesting reversal of Oni 1, where Konoko as a host is being invaded by the Daodan; this time <u>she's</u> mentally invading the Daodan that has replaced her cells. | | Questions why Meta tech can't be refined and elegant. And what threats is Meta responding to? Perhaps they seem to be doing it for their own reasons, not in response to a known threat. Implies that Mukade is the head inventor. As the devices are the product of an unearthly intelligence, they should be "wrong" somehow, beyond normal human understanding. And the Metabike is something that a normal human would not be agile enough to use, plus you have no body protection as you speed along. "The disturbing thing about it (as it will be for most other Meta-stuff) is that it's simply not meant for human operators." Agrees that Meta tech should be rare, but they can also have multiple variations on the same device, and vary them randomly like Oni does with ONCC body sizes. Doesn't agree with guido's interpretation of the outro monologue, as Konoko still made the choice to blow up the ACCs; did she do that out of fear of the Daodan or out of hope in it? Reiterates point about cause of Mai's amnesia; if she'd known from the start what the Daodan was, the struggle with it wouldn't have been too bad, but she only realized when it was almost too late to retain her faculties. Perhaps she is trapped in her own mind by the Daodan, which would allow for levels like the movie "The Cube". The Daodan is trying to track her down in her own mind, kind of like Agent Smith and Neo in the Matrix. She has to become even fitter mentally in order to continue to resist the Daodan's increasingly smart attacks. With regards to fear, Mai needs to learn to not be afraid of the Daodan, in order to cope with it. She can learn from Mukade, who is more experienced. Together they can walk a path perpendicular to the one the Daodan wants to evolve in, and find a new way. Dislikes idea of Mai deciding to give in to Imago, as this means alienation for the player. How can we even write a story around an alien intelligence? "The whole purpose of the Daodan may be to face strong minds with the threat of disappearing completely, and maintain that threat in order to make the human mind achieve a greater knowledge and control of itself as well as of the Daodan entity, develop at a whole new level (telepathy etc) while retaining its very essence. Ultimately, the human mind gets so strong that its strength and that of the Daodan are perfectly matched, and it's some kind of peaceful coexistence then." Seven years is not long enough to let Griffin be dead without having to specify how he died [Cf. Oni's forked ending], and to let the Cataclysm's effects die down. If it's too soon after the Cataclysm, people will be more likely to simply lynch Konoko. Reiterates idea of Mai joining a Rebellion, which allows for lots of individuals with separate motivations. When it's revealed who Mai is, they each have to take a stand on what to do about her. Similar to Oni 1, Mai would start off as a "clueless pawn" and gradually realize the truth. Shinatama/Hikari may have trouble understanding the new Mai, making their new relationship more complex. Disagrees that the host or the Daodan has to win; "as in the case of war, there is then no victor to speak of. True victory means ceasefire, compromise, cooperation, peace." We can show that the human spirit is strong even if the flesh is weak. This can mean an interesting reversal of Oni 1, where Konoko as a host is being invaded by the Daodan; this time <u>she's</u> mentally invading the Daodan that has replaced her cells. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 168 | | 168 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3193 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3193 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Vehicles, Mukade, Mai, Ninjas, Themes | | Vehicles, Mukade, Mai, Ninjas, Themes | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 169 | | 169 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3205 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3205 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 170 | | 170 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3228 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=16#post_3228 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Gameplay, Ninjas, Vehicles | | Gameplay, Ninjas, Vehicles | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 171 | | 171 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3232 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3232 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Ninjas, Weapons, Vehicles | | Ninjas, Weapons, Vehicles | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 172 | | 172 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3235 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3235 here]--> | ||
| Seventeen Seconds | | Seventeen Seconds | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 152: | Line 146: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 173 | | 173 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3236 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3236 here]--> | ||
| owldreamer | | owldreamer | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 158: | Line 152: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 174 | | 174 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3238 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3238 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| -- | | -- | ||
Line 164: | Line 158: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 175 | | 175 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3240 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3240 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Ninjas, Vehicles | | Ninjas, Vehicles | ||
Line 170: | Line 164: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 176 | | 176 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3279 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3279 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Project, Art | | Project, Art | ||
| Asks to see 17sec's story. Posts another broken art link [apparently [[:Image: | | Asks to see 17sec's story. Posts another broken art link [apparently [[:Image:Guido - Mai vs. an SLD.jpg|this one]]]. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 177 | | 177 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3281 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3281 here]--> | ||
| owldreamer | | owldreamer | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 182: | Line 176: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 178 | | 178 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3283 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3283 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 188: | Line 182: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 179 | | 179 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3286 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3286 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 194: | Line 188: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 180 | | 180 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3345 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=17#post_3345 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Mai, Mukade, Daodan, Society, Themes | | Mai, Mukade, Daodan, Society, Themes | ||
Line 200: | Line 194: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 181 | | 181 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3346 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3346 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 206: | Line 200: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 182 | | 182 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3347 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3347 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 212: | Line 206: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 183 | | 183 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3350 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3350 here]--> | ||
| owldreamer | | owldreamer | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 218: | Line 212: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 184 | | 184 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3368 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3368 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Daodan, Themes, Hasegawa | | Daodan, Themes, Hasegawa | ||
Line 224: | Line 218: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 185 | | 185 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3369 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3369 here]--> | ||
| caddy | | caddy | ||
| Daodan, Mai, Pollution | | Daodan, Mai, Pollution | ||
Line 230: | Line 224: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 186 | | 186 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3370 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3370 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Mai, Hasegawa, Themes, Daodan | | Mai, Hasegawa, Themes, Daodan | ||
Line 236: | Line 230: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 187 | | 187 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3371 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3371 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Daodan, Mai, Kerr, Pollution | | Daodan, Mai, Kerr, Pollution | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 188 | | 188 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3389 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3389 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Settings | | Settings | ||
Line 248: | Line 242: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 189 | | 189 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3392 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3392 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Hasegawa, Kerr, Pollution | | Hasegawa, Kerr, Pollution | ||
Line 254: | Line 248: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 190 | | 190 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3395 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=18#post_3395 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Pollution, Daodan, Hasegawa | | Pollution, Daodan, Hasegawa | ||
Line 260: | Line 254: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 191 | | 191 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3399 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3399 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Pollution, Hasegawa, Daodan, TCTF | | Pollution, Hasegawa, Daodan, TCTF | ||
Line 266: | Line 260: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 192 | | 192 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3401 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3401 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| TCTF, Pollution, Hasegawa, | | TCTF, Pollution, Hasegawa, OtherChar | ||
| Agrees that TCTF would no longer be around. Airport level could simply take place before curfew. If those masks are for filtering air, why would only high-level troops have them? And civilians don't seem to need them.... Doesn't think that Hasegawa's grief would allow him to overlook the dangers of the project. The skyboxes are just ugly and garish, that's the only reason for slight differences in color from reality. You aren't even allowed to see a whole sky in Oni's levels, because there's no sun. Reiterates that the engine was too limited to allow for more civilian activity. Suggests that explanations for Hasegawa's actions can be ambiguous; we can have multiple options. If Hikari can change her skin's color, can she wear a "chameleon" skin or some form of phase cloak? | | Agrees that TCTF would no longer be around. Airport level could simply take place before curfew. If those masks are for filtering air, why would only high-level troops have them? And civilians don't seem to need them.... Doesn't think that Hasegawa's grief would allow him to overlook the dangers of the project. The skyboxes are just ugly and garish, that's the only reason for slight differences in color from reality. You aren't even allowed to see a whole sky in Oni's levels, because there's no sun. Reiterates that the engine was too limited to allow for more civilian activity. Suggests that explanations for Hasegawa's actions can be ambiguous; we can have multiple options. If Hikari can change her skin's color, can she wear a "chameleon" skin or some form of phase cloak? | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 193 | | 193 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3404 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3404 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Hasegawa, Kerr, Pollution | | Hasegawa, Kerr, Pollution | ||
Line 278: | Line 272: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 194 | | 194 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3410 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3410 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| | | OtherChar, Pollution, Kerr, Hasegawa, Mukade, Sturm., Syndicate | ||
| SLDs are made from organics too, although Hikari is a more mechanical kind of android. Prefers to stay away from topics like invisible walls in levels and other obvious limitations of the game technology. Re: adding more moving cars, Bungie couldn't even make the Warehouse truck's doors move with the truck. There are solar panels and civilians don't wear masks; that's as much as we need to know to understand that the air isn't heavily polluted, end of story. Hasegawa's connection to the Syndicate was probably not direct enough for Kerr to become aware of the danger. Kerr is rather submissive and naive, too, as seen in Oni, so he simply follows where Hasegawa leads. Questions how anyone knows what really happened to Jamie, as only witness was Hasegawa; why was he carrying a gun, anyway? Maybe that "virus" that was killing Jamie before Hasegawa shot her was just a cover story. Maybe the 'global poisoning' was a fabrication. Either Hasegawa was being manipulated, and really believed the things he wrote and really thought working under the Syndicate was a good idea, or else he had some ulterior motive. Maybe he expected the Syndicate to take over at some point. Maybe the goal was to use the Daodan as leverage to take over the organization. Either he planned to put his children in place at the head of the Syndicate, or else he became cautious because of the danger that Muro represented, and decided to allow him to (seemingly) lead the Syndicate, and use him as a tool. Perhaps Muro's plan to hold the world hostage with the ACCs was given to him by Hasegawa. However, Hasegawa actually engineered improvements to the ACCs that would reverse the damage in months or years. If any Syndicate scientists realized this, Hasegawa/Mukade's ninjas would take care of them. Muro wouldn't have found this out until it was too late, and then as the Syndicate collapsed, Hasegawa could simply have slipped into the shadows. This means that Konoko did everything wrong, incapacitating Mukade (dad) so he couldn't direct the final stages of the process, and blowing up the ACCs instead of allowing Hasegawa's plan to proceed. When Mukade confronted Konoko, he was curious to see if she was developing in a good way or bad, especially after seeing how Muro had turned out. After she took him out and caused things to get much worse, the opposite of what he had planned, he would naturally be resentful and/or afraid of her in Oni 2. Now he has no choice but to re-take control of the Syndicate to deal with the worsening situation, instead of ditching the Syndicate to flounder and die as he had planned. Acknowledges that this series of events makes the Daodan just a pawn in Hasegawa's master plan and may not be the desired direction we want for an Oni 2. But it does explain a lot of Oni's loose threads, doesn't it? It makes out Hasegawa to be brilliant after all, unless the Daodan has actually been controlling him all along. | | SLDs are made from organics too, although Hikari is a more mechanical kind of android. Prefers to stay away from topics like invisible walls in levels and other obvious limitations of the game technology. Re: adding more moving cars, Bungie couldn't even make the Warehouse truck's doors move with the truck. There are solar panels and civilians don't wear masks; that's as much as we need to know to understand that the air isn't heavily polluted, end of story. Hasegawa's connection to the Syndicate was probably not direct enough for Kerr to become aware of the danger. Kerr is rather submissive and naive, too, as seen in Oni, so he simply follows where Hasegawa leads. Questions how anyone knows what really happened to Jamie, as only witness was Hasegawa; why was he carrying a gun, anyway? Maybe that "virus" that was killing Jamie before Hasegawa shot her was just a cover story. Maybe the 'global poisoning' was a fabrication. Either Hasegawa was being manipulated, and really believed the things he wrote and really thought working under the Syndicate was a good idea, or else he had some ulterior motive. Maybe he expected the Syndicate to take over at some point. Maybe the goal was to use the Daodan as leverage to take over the organization. Either he planned to put his children in place at the head of the Syndicate, or else he became cautious because of the danger that Muro represented, and decided to allow him to (seemingly) lead the Syndicate, and use him as a tool. Perhaps Muro's plan to hold the world hostage with the ACCs was given to him by Hasegawa. However, Hasegawa actually engineered improvements to the ACCs that would reverse the damage in months or years. If any Syndicate scientists realized this, Hasegawa/Mukade's ninjas would take care of them. Muro wouldn't have found this out until it was too late, and then as the Syndicate collapsed, Hasegawa could simply have slipped into the shadows. This means that Konoko did everything wrong, incapacitating Mukade (dad) so he couldn't direct the final stages of the process, and blowing up the ACCs instead of allowing Hasegawa's plan to proceed. When Mukade confronted Konoko, he was curious to see if she was developing in a good way or bad, especially after seeing how Muro had turned out. After she took him out and caused things to get much worse, the opposite of what he had planned, he would naturally be resentful and/or afraid of her in Oni 2. Now he has no choice but to re-take control of the Syndicate to deal with the worsening situation, instead of ditching the Syndicate to flounder and die as he had planned. Acknowledges that this series of events makes the Daodan just a pawn in Hasegawa's master plan and may not be the desired direction we want for an Oni 2. But it does explain a lot of Oni's loose threads, doesn't it? It makes out Hasegawa to be brilliant after all, unless the Daodan has actually been controlling him all along. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 195 | | 195 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3414 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3414 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Hasegawa, Mukade, Syndicate | | Hasegawa, Mukade, Syndicate | ||
Line 290: | Line 284: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 196 | | 196 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3417 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3417 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade, Hasegawa, Daodan, Ninjas, Syndicate, Muro | | Mukade, Hasegawa, Daodan, Ninjas, Syndicate, Muro | ||
Line 296: | Line 290: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 197 | | 197 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3418 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3418 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Hasegawa | | Hasegawa | ||
Line 302: | Line 296: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 198 | | 198 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3420 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3420 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Hasegawa, Syndicate, Phoenix | | Hasegawa, Syndicate, Phoenix | ||
Line 308: | Line 302: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 199 | | 199 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3424 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3424 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Themes | | Themes | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 200 | | 200 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3443 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=19#post_3443 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project, Art, Themes | | Project, Art, Themes | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 201 | | 201 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3457 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3457 here]--> | ||
| caddy | | caddy | ||
| Themes, Project | | Themes, Project | ||
Line 326: | Line 320: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 202 | | 202 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3458 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3458 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Themes, Phoenix, Meta, Project | | Themes, Phoenix, Meta, Project | ||
Line 332: | Line 326: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 203 | | 203 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3549 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3549 here]--> | ||
| MorrisDay | | MorrisDay | ||
| Themes, Mai | | Themes, Mai | ||
Line 338: | Line 332: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 204 | | 204 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3553 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3553 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Themes, | | Themes, OtherChar, Project | ||
| Is less interested in Bungie's "context" and more in how the story itself makes us feel and how it's open to interpretation. Where did these ideas go astray from what Oni is about? Points out all the similarities between the themes in Oni 2 and Oni 1: a nameless heroine without a past; a struggle between two communities, one of which adopts her (perhaps for their own purposes); the heroine developing superhuman abilities while discovering her identity; an obscure community of enemies; the heroine's community rejecting her out of fear of her powers; an enemy mastermind who is somehow connected to the heroine; "marginal people" who can help the heroine find her identity. But we shouldn't idolize the original story too much; the motivations and settings are rather derivative and simplistic. Why shouldn't we aim higher? Thinks that a new player will be able to come into this story without a learning curve from not knowing Oni 1, and returning players will recognize the themes well enough (authoritarian gov't, Mai being used as a weapon, etc.) that they can connect to it. As for Big, has purposely held off on elaborating on that character so fans wouldn't complain about geyser shoe-horning his own creation into the story; focusing first on elaborating on characters such as Mukade. Hikari isn't geyser's character, but if guido finds her inspiring, then is happy to have her around. In any case, we've only come up with a handful of new characters so far, so before we reject them, we need to give them time to see how they will interact with the established cast. Also, Hikari can be involved in revealing information to Mai about who/what she is (although Hikari is also afraid of her, which adds an interesting dynamic). Will start working on summarizing the thread using the aforementioned keyword index. Will also summarize his personal ideas on the wiki; others are welcome to contribute their own material. Art gallery for Guido is in progress; why hasn't anyone commented on his own art yet? Agrees that Oni 2 should start with multiplayer and basic gameplay elements. This thread is for planning out the story stuff that comes much later in the process. | | Is less interested in Bungie's "context" and more in how the story itself makes us feel and how it's open to interpretation. Where did these ideas go astray from what Oni is about? Points out all the similarities between the themes in Oni 2 and Oni 1: a nameless heroine without a past; a struggle between two communities, one of which adopts her (perhaps for their own purposes); the heroine developing superhuman abilities while discovering her identity; an obscure community of enemies; the heroine's community rejecting her out of fear of her powers; an enemy mastermind who is somehow connected to the heroine; "marginal people" who can help the heroine find her identity. But we shouldn't idolize the original story too much; the motivations and settings are rather derivative and simplistic. Why shouldn't we aim higher? Thinks that a new player will be able to come into this story without a learning curve from not knowing Oni 1, and returning players will recognize the themes well enough (authoritarian gov't, Mai being used as a weapon, etc.) that they can connect to it. As for Big, has purposely held off on elaborating on that character so fans wouldn't complain about geyser shoe-horning his own creation into the story; focusing first on elaborating on characters such as Mukade. Hikari isn't geyser's character, but if guido finds her inspiring, then is happy to have her around. In any case, we've only come up with a handful of new characters so far, so before we reject them, we need to give them time to see how they will interact with the established cast. Also, Hikari can be involved in revealing information to Mai about who/what she is (although Hikari is also afraid of her, which adds an interesting dynamic). Will start working on summarizing the thread using the aforementioned keyword index. Will also summarize his personal ideas on the wiki; others are welcome to contribute their own material. Art gallery for Guido is in progress; why hasn't anyone commented on his own art yet? Agrees that Oni 2 should start with multiplayer and basic gameplay elements. This thread is for planning out the story stuff that comes much later in the process. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 205 | | 205 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3596 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3596 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 350: | Line 344: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 206 | | 206 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3598 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3598 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| -- | | -- | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 207 | | 207 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3600 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3600 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 208 | | 208 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3605 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3605 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
| Links to some pages on wiki for Oni 2 characters, and to his "interactive index" of key concepts from this thread [that would be the [[Oni2:Storyline]] page, which was mostly unfinished at the time]. | | Links to some pages on wiki for Oni 2 characters, and to his "interactive index" of key concepts from this thread [that would be the [[Oni2:A Storyline]] page, which was mostly unfinished at the time]. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 209 | | 209 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3615 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3615 here]--> | ||
| caddy | | caddy | ||
| Gameplay, Project | | Gameplay, Project | ||
Line 374: | Line 368: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 210 | | 210 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3616 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=20#post_3616 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Gameplay | | Gameplay | ||
Line 380: | Line 374: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 211 | | 211 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3650 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3650 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 386: | Line 380: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 212 | | 212 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3651 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3651 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art, Weapons, | | Art, Weapons, OtherChar | ||
| Likes it [whatever it is], but a sword in a bloodless game is questionable, "and maybe even the conventional gun". Links to some Tank Girl art for comparison. Complains about guido's art blog's restrictions. Thinks Hikari's com link is rather retro [he must be referring to [[:Image: | | Likes it [whatever it is], but a sword in a bloodless game is questionable, "and maybe even the conventional gun". Links to some Tank Girl art for comparison. Complains about guido's art blog's restrictions. Thinks Hikari's com link is rather retro [he must be referring to [[:Image:Guido - Hikari TCTF.jpg|this art]]]. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 213 | | 213 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3654 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3654 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art, | | Art, OtherChar | ||
| The com link shouldn't be necessary at all for an android; perhaps it's part of a desire on Hikari's part to appear human, or relate to humans. | | The com link shouldn't be necessary at all for an android; perhaps it's part of a desire on Hikari's part to appear human, or relate to humans. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 214 | | 214 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3658 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3658 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art, | | Art, OtherChar | ||
| That com link certainly won't help her to blend in on the streets. Unless she's trying to infiltrate Phoenix, but they all know each other, so that wouldn't be effective anyway. Thinks Guido should get an oni2.net account. | | That com link certainly won't help her to blend in on the streets. Unless she's trying to infiltrate Phoenix, but they all know each other, so that wouldn't be effective anyway. Thinks Guido should get an oni2.net account. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 215 | | 215 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3666 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3666 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Griffin, Mukade, Meta, OtherChar | | Griffin, Mukade, Meta, OtherChar | ||
Line 410: | Line 404: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 216 | | 216 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3669 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3669 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| OtherChar, META | | OtherChar, META | ||
Line 416: | Line 410: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 217 | | 217 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3671 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3671 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art, META, Phoenix, OtherChar, Themes | | Art, META, Phoenix, OtherChar, Themes | ||
Line 422: | Line 416: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 218 | | 218 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3723 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3723 here]--> | ||
| Se_Renkas | | Se_Renkas | ||
| Gameplay | | Gameplay | ||
Line 428: | Line 422: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 219 | | 219 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3740 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3740 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Gameplay, OtherChar, Themes | | Gameplay, OtherChar, Themes | ||
Line 434: | Line 428: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 220 | | 220 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3743 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=21#post_3743 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 440: | Line 434: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 221 | | 221 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3758 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3758 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Themes | | Themes | ||
Line 446: | Line 440: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 222 | | 222 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3870 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3870 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art, Vehicles, Themes | | Art, Vehicles, Themes | ||
| Posts drawing of mech that Mai could pilot at some point. Discusses [[ | | Posts drawing of mech that Mai could pilot at some point. Discusses [[GUNNM]] as a reference for an Oni 2, especially because the emphasis is on martial arts more than GitS, where guns are the primary weapon of choice. Also mentions Armitage. Finds the idea of a woman becoming less human to be a more unique angle for a character than all those properties with androids trying to become <u>more</u> human. Points to Alita's "rides" - a one-wheeled bike and her Rollerball gear. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 223 | | 223 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3877 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3877 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art, Meta, Mukade | | Art, Meta, Mukade | ||
Line 458: | Line 452: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 224 | | 224 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3878 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3878 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art, Griffin, Kerr, Muro | | Art, Griffin, Kerr, Muro | ||
Line 464: | Line 458: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 225 | | 225 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3879 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3879 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
| Posts drawing of unnamed character speaking with Mr. Big. References [[Blame!]] as an Oni 2 | | Posts drawing of unnamed character speaking with Mr. Big. References [[Blame!]] as an Oni 2 influence. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 226 | | 226 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3881 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3881 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Art, OtherChar | | Art, OtherChar, Muro, Themes, Mukade, TCTF | ||
| Critiques Guido's art, discusses his plans for his own art. Griffin's relative needn't be female. Pandora will be, and Hikari; sees interesting parallel to the Daodan process in the idea of continually upgrading Hikari. The "old man" and Meta leaders will be male. Wants to bring back Muro as well, not in the flesh, but in Mai's mind. He haunts her because of their relationship in Oni 1, perhaps confronting her, or challenging her philosophically. Since he's not real, he only knows what Mai (or the Daodan) knows. Perhaps his image is actually being used by the Daodan to communicate with Mai. He also may serve as a teacher for Mai in a training environment; since he's not real, his abilities can increase over time, to a fantastical degree, to prepare her for upcoming challenges. He can also represent, as Guido pointed out, what Mai could still become, if she follows the wrong path. So his presence in her head can paint a picture of the struggle that Mai faces, and the balance between human and the inhuman inside her. Mai can become quite familiar with this mental Muro, whereas Mukade will remain distant. This allows for ambiguity about who he really is. Although he may also serve as a sensei to Mai, he doesn't know the whole picture; he has to learn from Mai, as well. (An alternate approach: What if Mukade was the one who introduced the Daodan to Hasegawa?). Mukade may not identify anymore with who he used to be, leading to enigmatic conversations with Mai that only slowly reveal the truth. Why is Mukade using a rifle in that art? He was already able to teleport and fire energy balls in Oni 1; imagine what he can do after his near-death experience makes him even stronger. Re: Blame!, questions how dark Oni 2 should be. Wants variety in tone, not a dark monotony like Max Payne. Doesn't like Guido's weaker version of Meta. It leaves out Mukade's struggles as leader of the world. And who rules the world then? Doesn't see a place for conventional corporations in the world of Oni 2, just Meta and the rebellion. Groups like the TCTF would be absorbed into those two sides. Names from Oni 1 like "TCTF" and "Syndicate" would now be obsolete. A new third party is fine, but Meta needs to be the centralized gov't in control. "No politics. No corporations. The state is the law. The state is the industry." Mentions web site made by war gamers which has interesting weapon concepts. | | Critiques Guido's art, discusses his plans for his own art. Griffin's relative needn't be female. Pandora will be, and Hikari; sees interesting parallel to the Daodan process in the idea of continually upgrading Hikari. The "old man" and Meta leaders will be male. Wants to bring back Muro as well, not in the flesh, but in Mai's mind. He haunts her because of their relationship in Oni 1, perhaps confronting her, or challenging her philosophically. Since he's not real, he only knows what Mai (or the Daodan) knows. Perhaps his image is actually being used by the Daodan to communicate with Mai. He also may serve as a teacher for Mai in a training environment; since he's not real, his abilities can increase over time, to a fantastical degree, to prepare her for upcoming challenges. He can also represent, as Guido pointed out, what Mai could still become, if she follows the wrong path. So his presence in her head can paint a picture of the struggle that Mai faces, and the balance between human and the inhuman inside her. Mai can become quite familiar with this mental Muro, whereas Mukade will remain distant. This allows for ambiguity about who he really is. Although he may also serve as a sensei to Mai, he doesn't know the whole picture; he has to learn from Mai, as well. (An alternate approach: What if Mukade was the one who introduced the Daodan to Hasegawa?). Mukade may not identify anymore with who he used to be, leading to enigmatic conversations with Mai that only slowly reveal the truth. Why is Mukade using a rifle in that art? He was already able to teleport and fire energy balls in Oni 1; imagine what he can do after his near-death experience makes him even stronger. Re: Blame!, questions how dark Oni 2 should be. Wants variety in tone, not a dark monotony like Max Payne. Doesn't like Guido's weaker version of Meta. It leaves out Mukade's struggles as leader of the world. And who rules the world then? Doesn't see a place for conventional corporations in the world of Oni 2, just Meta and the rebellion. Groups like the TCTF would be absorbed into those two sides. Names from Oni 1 like "TCTF" and "Syndicate" would now be obsolete. A new third party is fine, but Meta needs to be the centralized gov't in control. "No politics. No corporations. The state is the law. The state is the industry." Mentions web site made by war gamers which has interesting weapon concepts. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 227 | | 227 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3903 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3903 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Muro, Mukade, Themes | | Muro, Mukade, Themes | ||
Line 482: | Line 476: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 228 | | 228 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3904 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3904 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art | | Art | ||
Line 488: | Line 482: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 229 | | 229 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3907 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3907 here]--> | ||
| mackan | | mackan | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 494: | Line 488: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 230 | | 230 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3908 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=22#post_3908 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project, Art, Mukade, Themes, Phoenix, Settings, Meta | | Project, Art, Mukade, Themes, Phoenix, Settings, Meta | ||
Line 500: | Line 494: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 231 | | 231 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3909 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3909 here]--> | ||
| mackan | | mackan | ||
| -- | | -- | ||
Line 506: | Line 500: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 232 | | 232 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3917 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3917 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| -- | | -- | ||
Line 512: | Line 506: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 233 | | 233 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3920 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3920 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| -- | | -- | ||
Line 518: | Line 512: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 234 | | 234 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3941 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3941 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Gameplay, Mukade | | Gameplay, Mukade | ||
Line 524: | Line 518: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 235 | | 235 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3946 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3946 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Gameplay, Mukade, Mr. Big | | Gameplay, Mukade, Mr. Big | ||
Line 530: | Line 524: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 236 | | 236 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3949 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3949 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Mukade | | Mukade | ||
Line 536: | Line 530: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 237 | | 237 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3956 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3956 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade, Gameplay | | Mukade, Gameplay | ||
Line 542: | Line 536: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 238 | | 238 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3958 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3958 here]--> | ||
| mackan | | mackan | ||
| Mr. Big | | Mr. Big | ||
Line 548: | Line 542: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 239 | | 239 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3959 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3959 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Art, Mr. Big | | Art, Mr. Big | ||
Line 554: | Line 548: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 240 | | 240 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3964 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=23#post_3964 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mr. Big, | | Mr. Big, OtherChar | ||
| Mr. Big was his idea, "as an archetype of brute force combined with a mix of cunning situation assessment and (possibly faked) good-heartedness". He's a rogue element in the plot, not tied to one faction. Initially he brings Mai into Phoenix and supports her on her first missions while the player is learning the ropes. Big also owns a warehouse-turned-night club. It would be hard to have Mai betray Big in a game where you play as Mai; you'd have to take away control from the player, possibly disillusioning them. Perhaps some TCTF gear remains from the old days; it may even serve as a trigger for Mai's memory; perhaps Hikari even wears it for that purpose. "Does Big take Mai as a rival, a friend, a sister... or a collector's item?" | | Mr. Big was his idea, "as an archetype of brute force combined with a mix of cunning situation assessment and (possibly faked) good-heartedness". He's a rogue element in the plot, not tied to one faction. Initially he brings Mai into Phoenix and supports her on her first missions while the player is learning the ropes. Big also owns a warehouse-turned-night club. It would be hard to have Mai betray Big in a game where you play as Mai; you'd have to take away control from the player, possibly disillusioning them. Perhaps some TCTF gear remains from the old days; it may even serve as a trigger for Mai's memory; perhaps Hikari even wears it for that purpose. "Does Big take Mai as a rival, a friend, a sister... or a collector's item?" | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 241 | | 241 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_3995 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_3995 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| Mukade, Phoenix, MainChar | | Mukade, Phoenix, MainChar | ||
Line 566: | Line 560: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 242 | | 242 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_3997 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_3997 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| MainChar, Phoenix | | MainChar, Phoenix | ||
Line 572: | Line 566: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 243 | | 243 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4001 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4001 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| MainChar | | MainChar | ||
Line 578: | Line 572: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 244 | | 244 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4004 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4004 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade, MainChar, Phoenix | | Mukade, MainChar, Phoenix | ||
Line 584: | Line 578: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 245 | | 245 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4005 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4005 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| Mukade, Phoenix | | Mukade, Phoenix | ||
Line 590: | Line 584: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 246 | | 246 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4009 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4009 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade, Phoenix | | Mukade, Phoenix | ||
Line 596: | Line 590: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 247 | | 247 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4019 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4019 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 602: | Line 596: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 248 | | 248 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4021 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4021 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Projects | | Projects | ||
Line 608: | Line 602: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 249 | | 249 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4022 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4022 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 614: | Line 608: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 250 | | 250 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4023 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=24#post_4023 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 620: | Line 614: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 251 | | 251 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4029 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4029 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 626: | Line 620: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 252 | | 252 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4059 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4059 here]--> | ||
| Underdog | | Underdog | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 632: | Line 626: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 253 | | 253 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4060 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4060 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 254 | | 254 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4063 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4063 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| OtherChar | | OtherChar | ||
Line 644: | Line 638: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 255 | | 255 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4068 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4068 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| OtherChar | | OtherChar | ||
| Another Daodan scientist with a dead wife? He can't be the sole head of the department because Mukade would want to run it. Re: Edward's granddaughter, doesn't want Pandora to be related to Dr. Edward as it is too trite and similar to Oni 1 [he's reading too far into Last_Hero's post here]. | | Another Daodan scientist with a dead wife? He can't be the sole head of the department because Mukade would want to run it. Re: Edward's granddaughter, doesn't want Pandora to be related to Dr. Edward as it is too trite and similar to Oni 1 [he's reading too far into Last_Hero's post here]-->. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 256 | | 256 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4072 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4072 here]--> | ||
| Blaghman | | Blaghman | ||
| Griffin | | Griffin | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 257 | | 257 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4074 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4074 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| OtherChar, Mukade, Themes | | OtherChar, Mukade, Themes | ||
Line 662: | Line 656: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 258 | | 258 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4081 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4081 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| OtherChar | | OtherChar | ||
Line 668: | Line 662: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 259 | | 259 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4102 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4102 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| -- | | -- | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 260 | | 260 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4110 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=25#post_4110 here]--> | ||
| typhen | | typhen | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 680: | Line 674: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 261 | | 261 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4111 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4111 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 686: | Line 680: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 262 | | 262 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4113 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4113 here]--> | ||
| typhen | | typhen | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 692: | Line 686: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 263 | | 263 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4115 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4115 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
| Links to disclaimer about Storyline thread on wiki [ | | Links to disclaimer about Storyline thread on wiki [now found [[User:Geyser/Writing#A_storyline_for_Oni_2|here]-->].] Still welcomes others' ideas in the thread. "The index should really ease things out. It would clearly separate the objective from the subjective; Oni's raw material and 'sensible blank-filling' that isn't part of any particular 'Oni 2 plot'... from interpretations/speculations that are a bit less flexible as for the way to let the story evolve in... and finally actual ideas of missions, cinematics, character interaction, parties in presence, etc." Story aside, the mission ideas generated ''ex nihilo'' such as the cave and SLD factory simply need to be built and tested, and if they are fun, they can be worked into the story. Acknowledges the weightiness of his walls of text. Is considering stepping back to allow others in thread more room to put forth their ideas. Thinks his ideas are generally compatible with other fans', even where they conflict, because we can allow for multiple possible truths in the story of the game, as much quality writing does. (However, the amnesia element is an exception to this pluralist approach.) For that matter, many of his ideas were made in response to others' ideas. Thinks it is time to step back and consider how things have turned out so far and where we want to go next. One possibility is an online fanzine where we can publish any Oni-related content. At any rate, anyone can start their own thread for their own storyline. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 264 | | 264 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4165 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4165 here]--> | ||
| guido | | guido | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 704: | Line 698: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 265 | | 265 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4172 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4172 here]--> | ||
| typhen | | typhen | ||
| Project | | Project | ||
Line 710: | Line 704: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 266 | | 266 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4241 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4241 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Project, Themes, OtherChar | | Project, Themes, OtherChar | ||
| Agrees with Guido. Wiki makes a better place for a showcase than a "limited access" page on Oni Central. Points to Quotes page that he has created on wiki. Having read all the quotes anew, issues some quasi-retractions on the subjects of whether the increasing pollution was just in Hasegawa's imagination, whether Muro's plan was legitimate, and whether Mai's decision was logical. Questions whether Oni really takes place in 2032 since there are conflicting dates. Game mentions Freedom Riots of 2012 but manual says WCG wasn't formed until after January 2032 [is this necessarily a conflict?]. Reviews main ideas generated to date. Pandora and her optimism for the Daodan vs. Mai's skepticism. The alienation caused by the Daodan and whether there is a grand design behind it, and whether it can be communicated with. The Daodan process, and Meta's rule, try to make things perfect, but the message of Oni 2 will be wabi-sabi-esque: that our beauty and strength lie in our imperfection. Outlines interaction between Mai and Hikari, who is the embodiment of the resurrected Shinatama. "Hacker boy" who works for Hikari may become torn between a distant AI that gives him orders and his "enemy" Mai, who is still partially human. Perhaps Dr. Edward(s) is hacker boy's granddad. "Collective storytelling has its problems [but] having story elements, and especially points of view and interpretations contributed by many individuals is a definite plus". Pluralistic storytelling is "much closer" to how animé and good sci-fi tells stories, leaving some things for the audience to think about. A sophisticated game could even allow Mai to die, and have the player continue with another character such as Hikari or Pandora or Big. That may be over-ambitious for a video game, but maybe a gamebook is a better idea. Points to gamebook on another wiki which is about Oni and has Guido listed as artist: "What the hell is this?" [this was a [[wikipedia:D20 System|d20]] gamebook worked on by several people we don't know, plus Guido; it didn't seem to be active for very long, and then it was deleted by admins because Wikibooks is not for original material; [http://web.archive.org/web/20050807011518/http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oni_d20 here's a peek] at what it looked like]. | | Agrees with Guido. Wiki makes a better place for a showcase than a "limited access" page on Oni Central. Points to Quotes page that he has created on wiki. Having read all the quotes anew, issues some quasi-retractions on the subjects of whether the increasing pollution was just in Hasegawa's imagination, whether Muro's plan was legitimate, and whether Mai's decision was logical. Questions whether Oni really takes place in 2032 since there are conflicting dates. Game mentions Freedom Riots of 2012 but manual says WCG wasn't formed until after January 2032 [is this necessarily a conflict?]. Reviews main ideas generated to date. Pandora and her optimism for the Daodan vs. Mai's skepticism. The alienation caused by the Daodan and whether there is a grand design behind it, and whether it can be communicated with. The Daodan process, and Meta's rule, try to make things perfect, but the message of Oni 2 will be wabi-sabi-esque: that our beauty and strength lie in our imperfection. Outlines interaction between Mai and Hikari, who is the embodiment of the resurrected Shinatama. "Hacker boy" who works for Hikari may become torn between a distant AI that gives him orders and his "enemy" Mai, who is still partially human. Perhaps Dr. Edward(s) is hacker boy's granddad. "Collective storytelling has its problems [but] having story elements, and especially points of view and interpretations contributed by many individuals is a definite plus". Pluralistic storytelling is "much closer" to how animé and good sci-fi tells stories, leaving some things for the audience to think about. A sophisticated game could even allow Mai to die, and have the player continue with another character such as Hikari or Pandora or Big. That may be over-ambitious for a video game, but maybe a gamebook is a better idea. Points to gamebook on another wiki which is about Oni and has Guido listed as artist: "What the hell is this?" [this was a [[wikipedia:D20 System|d20]] gamebook worked on by several people we don't know, plus Guido; it didn't seem to be active for very long, and then it was deleted by admins because Wikibooks is not for original material; [http://web.archive.org/web/20050807011518/http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oni_d20 here's a peek] at what it looked like]. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 267 | | 267 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4412 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4412 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Sturm., Project, Daodan | | Sturm., Project, Daodan | ||
Line 722: | Line 716: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 268 | | 268 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4435 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4435 here]--> | ||
| Last_Hero | | Last_Hero | ||
| Syndicate, Hasegawa, Daodan | | Syndicate, Hasegawa, Daodan | ||
Line 728: | Line 722: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 269 | | 269 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4439 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4439 here]--> | ||
| Your_Mom | | Your_Mom | ||
| Hasegawa, Daodan | | Hasegawa, Daodan | ||
Line 734: | Line 728: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 270 | | 270 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4447 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=26#post_4447 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Syndicate, Muro, Daodan, Hasegawa, Mukade, Project | | Syndicate, Muro, Daodan, Hasegawa, Mukade, Project | ||
Line 740: | Line 734: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 271 | | 271 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4572 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4572 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Syndicate, Hasegawa, Kerr, Daodan | | Syndicate, Hasegawa, Kerr, Daodan | ||
Line 746: | Line 740: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 272 | | 272 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4907 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4907 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Society, Daodan | | Society, Daodan | ||
Line 752: | Line 746: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 273 | | 273 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4908 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4908 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Mukade | | Mukade | ||
Line 758: | Line 752: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 274 | | 274 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4910 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4910 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade | | Mukade | ||
Line 764: | Line 758: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 275 | | 275 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4912 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4912 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Mukade | | Mukade | ||
Line 770: | Line 764: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 276 | | 276 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4925 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4925 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade | | Mukade | ||
Line 776: | Line 770: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 277 | | 277 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4933 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4933 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Mukade, Daodan, Hasegawa, Barabas, Syndicate, Sturm. | | Mukade, Daodan, Hasegawa, Barabas, Syndicate, Sturm. | ||
Line 782: | Line 776: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 278 | | 278 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4951 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4951 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Muro, Mukade, Griffin | | Muro, Mukade, Griffin | ||
Line 788: | Line 782: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 279 | | 279 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4952 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_4952 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Muro, Barabas, Hasegawa, Mukade, Sturm., Syndicate, Ninjas | | Muro, Barabas, Hasegawa, Mukade, Sturm., Syndicate, Ninjas | ||
Line 794: | Line 788: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 280 | | 280 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_5014 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=27#post_5014 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Syndicate, Hasegawa, Kerr, TCTF, Mukade | | Syndicate, Hasegawa, Kerr, TCTF, Mukade | ||
Line 800: | Line 794: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 281 | | 281 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5035 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5035 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Syndicate, Hasegawa, Kerr | | Syndicate, Hasegawa, Kerr | ||
Line 806: | Line 800: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 282 | | 282 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5043 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5043 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Mukade, Griffin | | Mukade, Griffin | ||
Line 812: | Line 806: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 283 | | 283 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5044 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5044 here]--> | ||
| Loser | | Loser | ||
| Shinatama | | Shinatama | ||
Line 818: | Line 812: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 284 | | 284 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5045 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5045 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Shinatama, Muro, Griffin | | Shinatama, Muro, Griffin | ||
Line 824: | Line 818: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 285 | | 285 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5051 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5051 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Muro, Shinatama, Mukade | | Muro, Shinatama, Mukade | ||
Line 830: | Line 824: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 286 | | 286 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5055 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5055 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Muro, Shinatama | | Muro, Shinatama | ||
Line 836: | Line 830: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 287 | | 287 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5061 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5061 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Muro, Shinatama, Mukade | | Muro, Shinatama, Mukade | ||
Line 842: | Line 836: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 288 | | 288 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5104 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5104 here]--> | ||
| Laughing_Man_Ra | | Laughing_Man_Ra | ||
| Muro, Mukade | | Muro, Mukade | ||
Line 848: | Line 842: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 289 | | 289 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5112 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5112 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Muro, Barabas, Mukade, Mai | | Muro, Barabas, Mukade, Mai | ||
Line 854: | Line 848: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 290 | | 290 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5473 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=28#post_5473 here]--> | ||
| TNT | | TNT | ||
| Mai, Ninjas | | Mai, Ninjas | ||
| [For some reason TNT quotes a post from another thread and replies to it here. Some material omitted.] Isn't Konoko still kind of innocent [replying to an assertion by geyser to the contrary] | | [For some reason TNT quotes a post from another thread and replies to it here. Some material omitted.] Isn't Konoko still kind of innocent [replying to an assertion by geyser to the contrary]? Questions basis for geyser's theory of "unadvanced" ninjabots. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 291 | | 291 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=29#post_5474 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=29#post_5474 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Ninjas, Mai | | Ninjas, Mai | ||
Line 866: | Line 860: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 292 | | 292 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=29#post_5529 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=29#post_5529 here]--> | ||
| TNT | | TNT | ||
| Mai | | Mai | ||
Line 872: | Line 866: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 293 | | 293 | ||
| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=29#post_5531 here] | <!--| [http://konokoffin.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=9&page=29#post_5531 here]--> | ||
| geyser | | geyser | ||
| Daodan, Ninjas, Mai | | Daodan, Ninjas, Mai |