User talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 4: Difference between revisions

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+{{GuidoWishlist|right}}
+==Issues==
 :One good thing with these talk pages is that they can be reorganized at will.
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 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:I have been through it already twice. There's nothing you have to worry about, here. And I really appreciate both your review and commentary for their deep insight. They don't miss a clue.
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:Thanks. Can I expect [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 1|These]] [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 2|Other]] [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 3|Three]] to get your attention in the near future? ;)
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:Unfortunately I fear replying to you in a decent way is going to take me a while. So I wonder whether it wouldn't be better to add a short essay (for your pleasure).
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:Anything you like. Don't reply for the sake of replying : that's not the point of the talk. The point is to "adopt, adapt and improve". As long as we bear that in mind, anything goes.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:Please, do not humiliate me with the English issues, as I am the first one who acknowledges them.
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:I don't ''mean'' to dwell on grammar/vocabulary. I try to go beyond the problem and make the content better.
+:So when I say such-and-such is improper, I'm merely saying : let's replace it with something proper and that's it!
+:When I suggest alternative sentences for a character to say, I mean you to take it, or generate something in return, and then ''merge it in''.
+:We're not supposed to talk forever, let alone to nitpick each other's grammar (my English is far from perfect). We're supposed to build.
+:Did you notice what I did to the [[User_talk:Guido/Wishlist/Part 2|actual scene]]? Your wishlist is imperfect ''but'' it's dynamic. It ''should'' live.
+:I won't mind if you edit everything in-place and delete every trace of "English issues". I ''encourage'' you to do so.
+:Post. Post raw, heck, post ''Italian''.
+:Auto-spellcheck. Update.
+:Auto-check grammar (careful with those, BTW...). Update.
+:Compare with Google or Babelfish translation (just in case). Update.
+:Take in remarks by peers. Merge, update.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:Moreover I always have to confront with Microsoft Word automatic grammar check.  But this is another story...
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:The spellchecker starts explaining things like "musk". In those cases, even the lamest translator Google is a better friend (the best friend you can get is, of course, a dictionary).
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:I do know how to be precise (and when I say precise I say self-consistent), but in a creative process I prefer playing with riddles and with your curiosity. :)
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:45, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:That's not something I'd recommend, mainly because of the actual imprecisions (vocabulary etc) it cumulates with.
+:If we were all telepaths (or Italians), I believe we'd enjoy ourselves tremendously.
+:Because then your very understatements and ambiguities would be absolutely precise.
+:Right now, how should I say, the overall effect is not exactly that of a riddle session...
+:And you're not exactly playing with my curiosity when you give me "musk" or "crusty" and then have me wonder about "wheeze"...
+:You are free to leave certaing things out of the scope, but whatever you ''choose'' to focus on, precision should be ''there''.
+:"siding a collapsed highway", "drawing water with an old tank" ... Can you hear my head exploding? Please do something about that.
+:''Be on the lookout'' for false friends, for whatever can generate (unwanted) confusion rather than (wanted) ambiguity.
+:Again, I'd strongly encourage you to say ''more'' rather than ''less''. As I said, "whenever it's at all possible". Whenever it doesn't hurt your sense of understatement.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:24, 30 October 2006 (CET)
@@ Line 24: / Line 65: @@
 ----
 ==Ragged Konoko==
+[[Image:Guido - Ragged Konoko.jpg|right|thumb|Ragged Konoko]]
 :good.  short, sweet, to the point.
 :I have a hard time imagining konoko ragged -- after all, she's the toughest and quickest to bounce back, and she has a lot of pride -- but that's my only crit.
 :once again, a well done scene.
-::[[User;AF|AF]]
+::;AF
-:Imagine you are spending a few weeks in an endless desolation, wearing the same <strike>dress</strike> clothes, under adverse weather conditions, no water (only something to drink (??? [[User:Geyser|geyser]])), concrete heart (??? [[User:Geyser|geyser]]) to fall asleep onto
+:Picture yourself spending a few weeks in a weather-battered wasteland, with no spare clothes, hardly any drinkable water, and nothing but rock-hard soil to sleep on.
-:Let us consider how one can be after a day <strike>running</strike>pedaling like <strike>a</strike> mad on a bicycle under the rain, or a whole day climbing a rocky mountain. Then let's try to wonder how one can <strike>seem</strike>look after several days spent like this.
+:Take someone who's been pedaling uphill, or climbing up a cliff... a whole day long, and under the pouring rain... and then try imagine what they'd look like after several days/weeks/months of such activity.
-::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 21:29, 26 October 2006 (CEST)
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] & [[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
-:First, a tentative proofreading (translation, almost :P) (just merge with your entry if accurate, and delete this) :
-::Picture yourself spending a few weeks in a weather-battered wasteland, with no spare clothes, hardly any drinkable water, and nothing but rock-hard soil to sleep on.
-::Take someone who's been pedaling uphill, or climbing up a cliff... a whole day long, and under the pouring rain... and then try imagine what they'd look like after several days/weeks/months of such activity.
-::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST) ^^
@@ Line 53: / Line 92: @@
 :If you choose to picture Konoko as struggling with the environment rather than adapting to it, then you are missing Oni's "symbiosis" completely, and that's a shame.
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+[[Image:Guido - Who said I enjoy acid showers.jpg|right]]
+:Well let's take a look at the splashscreen in the end of {{C12}}.
+:Konoko doesn't give me the idea she is enjoying the acid bath.
+:Do you think she is keen on repeating such an experience?
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:43, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:Hm, yeah, I still have to upload all the other splashscreens and complete the [[Chapters]]... thanks for reminding me.
+:I ''never'' said "enjoy", up there or at all. I said "take". Acid or not, a cold shower is usually not a pleasant experience.
+:Also :
+:#There's an obvious difference between complete immersion in a biomatter disposal vat, and an improvised shower under an acid rain.
+:#The rain's acidity is not even a given : class 3/4 toxins are the main issue of Oni's [[BioCrisis]], and I focused on toxic rain in my argument.
+:#The other characters in the scene don't seem to care about the rain acidity/toxicity at all
+:#*(and I stressed that fact repeatedly, see above and below, section "Acid Rain")
+:#*(if humans can work/shout/whatever under that rain, Konoko can take a f##king shower)
+:#*(she doesn't have to enjoy it, but she ''will'' do it for the sake of staying clean)
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:07, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+:There is a subtle difference between possessing an enhanced self-healing power, and being immune to suffering and pain.
+:I think Konoko has become a die-hard, but the worst side effect of her condition is that she can endure pain more than anyone else.
+::[[User:Guido|Guido]] 23:43, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:That's another story. When I say "there are certain advantages to being a [[Daodan]]", aren't they always coupled to drawbacks? Sure are.
+:Perhaps the most obvious drawbacks are the loss of identity and/or free will; the rejection by mankind; the power to hurt and to kill.
+:As for the "power to suffer"... [[Quotes/Speech#Torture|Muro has it all figured out]], as far as I'm concerned :
+::Curious. Why bother programming you to feel pain so intensely?
+::Of course pain is a necessary response to certain stimuli, but they could have dulled the sensation
+::or given you a threshold that would limit the extent and depth of your agony. I'm glad they didn't.
+:Suppressing pain altogether is virtual suicide. ''Dulling it is an improvement''. By all means the [[Daodan]] would ''ease Konoko's pain''. IMO.
+:That being said, I'd love it if we used this opportunity to develop on the Lost Chapter 12.5, following Konoko between {{C12}} and {{C13}}.
+:How much can Konoko suffer? How much does she ''need'' to suffer? (story-wise and ''author''-wise) That's something we ought to set straight.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:07, 30 October 2006 (CET)
+Follow-up discussion moved on [[Talk:Pain]].
 ----
+[[Image:Guido - When you need an umbrella.jpg|right]]
 ;Ragged Konoko (redux)
 :Bottom line for me as for the explanatory sentences :
@@ Line 81: / Line 151: @@
 ----
 ==Acid rain==
 :Guido, I'm surprised you didn't address the rain's acidity/toxicity, either in your reply on the ragged Konoko or in the scene itself.
@@ Line 94: / Line 165: @@
 :"Mrs." means she's married. "Ms." means we don't know. Up to you.
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+Mrs.
+::[[User:Guido|guido]] 22:34, 29 November 2006 (CEST)
 ----
 :Either an overlooked "bug" or an understressed "feature" : Ms. Hishikawa instructing Kazuo to take Konoko to the ambulance, and finally accompanying them all the way.
@@ Line 104: / Line 178: @@
 :After a good look at Konoko, Kazuo reconsiders his initial impressions, maybe Ms. Hishikawa realizes something as well?
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
-:BTW, whatever "''crusty'' woman" is supposed to mean... The meaning you put into it is ''almost'' clear, but isn't [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusty#Stereotype "crusty"] completely improper?
+:BTW, whatever "''crusty'' woman" is supposed to mean... The meaning you put into it is ''almost'' clear, but isn't [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crusty&direction=prev&oldid=124117982#Stereotype "crusty"] completely improper?
+as far as I know "crusty" can be referred ''sensu latu'' to a person , like a military officer.
+::[[User:Guido|guido]] 22:34, 29 November 2006 (CEST)
 :Also, the hearing range of Ms. Hishikawa is minimal because of the downpour
@@ Line 258: / Line 335: @@
 :It would help if she's indeed f##ked-up by her exile, but then again I have trouble imagining her f##ked-up, too.
 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 21:13, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
+:I am convinced that the exile is a choice or a status mirroring Konoko's pride rather than a surrender. [...]
+::[[User:Guido|guido]] 22:24, 29 November 2006 (CEST)
+;Follow-up discussion moved on [[Talk:Pride]]...
+[[Category:Oni 2]]