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| [[User:Neo|Neo]] | | [[User:Neo|Neo]] |
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| I just want to make sure you understand the purpose of the edits I made to the file type pages the other day, Neo. I only wrote this in the edit summaries, so maybe you missed it. The idea was to encourage someone more knowledgeable than I to fill in information on the types. I can tell you that I personally have no idea what most of the types are for, and poring through the page's tables is a waste of time when a few words up top would inform a newbie what that type does and whether it's important to a particular modding effort.
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| It seems that you removed more information than you added, and I am disappointed because I thought you had so much to offer in terms of writing synopses. Is it just that you don't have the time? If so, just say so. But once again, the point was that I was writing what (little) I knew or could guess in the hopes that someone would correct the info... not delete it. Deleting it takes us back to square one where I and anyone else interested in binary modding have this roadblock to learning because there are no summaries. In the long run it is absolutely to your benefit to assist others in learning their way around the binaries.
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| P.S.: The "I don't know what this is" comment on the [[ABNA]] page was intended to be mildly amusing in addition to being a "replace-me-with-something-informative" placeholder. I was so certain that your humorless response was coming from geyser that I had to verify that the edit had your name on it several times. ''Please'' don't take geyser's place as Resident Wikian With No Sense Of Humor. I really admire your work and I hope that we can have a nice cooperative relationship going forward. Thank you. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:30, 28 August 2008 (CEST)
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| :"I just want to make sure you understand the purpose of the edits I made to the file type pages the other day, Neo. I only wrote this in the edit summaries, so maybe you missed it. The idea was to encourage someone more knowledgeable than I to fill in information on the types. I can tell you that I personally have no idea what most of the types are for, and poring through the page's tables is a waste of time when a few words up top would inform a newbie what that type does and whether it's important to a particular modding effort."
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| :I'm not trying to incite another flame war here, but if you don't know what something does, perhaps it is better not to edit it at all? (Might I point out the very erronous description for OBAN, that I had to fix?) No information is better than wrong information...[[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 19:42, 28 August 2008 (CEST)
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| ::geyser has pointed out multiple times that we can have more levity on this wiki than if we were, say, Wikipedia. He demonstrated this all the time with silly haiku and joke articles (even though he never found anything I said remotely funny). I knew that someone (I wasn't planning on it having to be Neo) would see my edit in their Watchlist and I assumed they would quickly replace it with something helpful. Also, if I knew that I knew something for sure I wouldn't be asking for help with the synopses; however, aside from the joke comment, the other edits were thought by me to be pretty certain (I didn't touch the file types after ABNA that I had no inkling of). If I made any mistakes in those serious edits, it only demonstrates the need for the synopses in the first place.
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| ::If I had simply announced somewhere "Hey guys, let's do this thing", no one would have acted and another argument would have ensued because I dared suggest something without contributing myself. So I applied the principle of "acting rather than talking about acting" and gave it a college try (and also to establish the format we could use).
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| ::Finally, the fundamental purpose of the wiki is to allow teamwork, and that definitely includes, in every wiki out there, correcting others' mistakes. Hence why I said "correct me if I'm wrong" 50 times (even though it should have gone without saying, being on a wiki). I hoped that I wouldn't have to apologize for any mistakes because my edits would be received in the spirit of earnest effort in which they were made. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 20:56, 28 August 2008 (CEST)
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| And you say I have removed information?? You must be kidding. The "information" in question either did not exist at all or it was redundant.
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| :*What's the need for "A versatile bitmap format that allows for an optional alpha channel, TXMPs can come in 16-bit and 32-bit varieties and can also be compressed in a standard OpenGL format" when all this can be found clearly stated in the texture format field?
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| :*Why do we need "TXMPs are also stored upside down" when this is stated at the end of page (and pictures are included too).
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| :*What's up with words like "versatile" and "interestingly" here? Who cares about it being versatile or not. It is what it is and there are probably more versatile texture formats around anyway.
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| :*ABNA stuff? That belongs to talk pages. There's no point in having that "joke comment" sitting there for months until me or somebody else has time to write something better.
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| And pay close attention to the above comment. You are trying to start something that we probably don't have the resources to finish. I'm quite busy in real life and I consider that my Oni related time is better spent working on more importers/exporters for OniSplit than writing more or less useful "synopsis". Others that may add some information (alloc, geyser, sfeli, ssg etc.) rarely come here (if at all) or they're busy too.
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| In general I agree that some OBD pages need more information but not all.
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| :*I have nothing more to add about TXMPs, all I know is there and I think the page is compact enough that it does not need any kind of synopsis (not to mention that there are at least 2 programs that can create TXMP files so there's no need for "binary modding").
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| :*I don't know if I'll ever add detailed explanation about environment (Akira) files because it's very unlikely that they can be modded in any significant way. Some octree related pages (OTLF) happen to have more information because using octrees this way is less common in games and I thought it's worth documenting that.
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| :*I don't know when I'll add information to other pages, it's simply not on my priority list.
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| In summary:
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| :*you could have used my talk page or ABNA's talk page to ask me (or others) about doing this.
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| :*you could have just edited the page template to add the synopsis field and edited 1 or 2 files that you happen to know best to give an example.
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| Instead you chose to make many more poorly worded/informed edits. This kind of impulsive behavior doesn't help anyone. If anything it's just a waste of other people's time.
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| [[User:Neo|Neo]]
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| Okay, we're spinning our wheels again talking about doing stuff. The time we spend talking is a significant fraction of what it would take a knowledgeable modder to synopsize the file types. I will only say this in response to your last post: I ''did'' pick the file types I was most familiar with, that's the sad part. To do this job singlehandedly (to not make mistakes that could easily be corrected by others afterwards) might take me 20 minutes of research per file on average, whereas it would take someone else 30 seconds to synopsize off the top of their head. And having to spend those hours on this project will only delay my other Oni work. So if that's how it's gotta be, where you're the only one visiting the wiki who knows the file types already, and you don't see the sense in doing this, then I guess we're at an impasse. I really thought there were others who could help with this or I ''would'' have asked you on your Talk page if you wanted to do this.
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| P.S.: Yes, maybe I wrote too much for the TXMP synopsis, it's not the end of the world. Wikis are for refining each other's work, not deleting it because it's not how we would have written it. If there were any words at all that were true, they could have been left there, and if there were statements that were inaccurate or wrong they could have been replaced with the truth in the matter. Your making editorial comments on my writing style is also counterproductive at this point. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:33, 29 August 2008 (CEST)
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| :Iritscen, What the hell are you doing?! He said he didn't want to do it, and had better things to do. Leave him alone! Discussions for this kinds of thing are better put here [[OBD_talk:Oni_Binary_Data]]. Complaining to Neo (or any other modder\hacker\whathaveyou) is not going to get it done. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 18:26, 29 August 2008 (CEST)
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| ::'''<big>"I really thought there were others who could help with this"</big>'''. So I didn't continue to ask Neo do anything. But don't worry, I'm through "complaining" (AKA defending myself). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:28, 29 August 2008 (CEST)
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