User talk:Bobbysoon: Difference between revisions

::Going by this, I would personally say it needs to be sized up by 25%-30%. P.S.: I just want to draw bobbysoon's attention to the textures, notice how they are more "weighty" on the old ID. I think it's a combination of being a darker gray and having more "shading" built into the texture to make up for Oni's anemic lighting system. I know you weren't probably planning on the current textures being final anyway; just wanted to take advantage of the comparison shot to point that out. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 03:27, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

::::::::My general impression, though, is that the current model's top is too large, but that the feet are fine. So if one focuses first on the top, the whole model seems too large, but if one starts at the feet, the conclusion one reaches is that the head and arms are too big. I've been viewing things from the "feet first" perspective, which is why I listed a bunch of "make this smaller" corrections for the top half and none for the feet. The other approach would of course be to scale the <u>whole</u> thing down and then scale the feet <u>up</u>. But I figured, "Let's use the feet as our standard ruler and modify what is out of proportion to the feet".

:Hmm, it doesn't look that different to me, overall. What do you mean about the "tail tip thing"?

:::Oh, I see. Interesting. That doesn't look too bad, in Mullins' painting. Looking again at the other reference pics, are we sure that the original model didn't actually have the arms mounted that far back? Since we can see that the <u>cannons</u> (or forearms) are mounted further back on the original, and our model has a longer "body" piece than the original, might the arms not actually be attached behind the body on the original? That being said, Mullins seems to have the arms mounted on the tail at the very top, and they're pretty clearly lower on the trailer ID. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 14:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

::::::Let's not and say we did ^_^. I'm fine personally with the arms being attached in back, although I would think this will require a little more work, since right now the arms just go into the body with no "bridging" detail, and if the backs of the arms are exposed, that might look odd without adding  a joint or connector of some kind where the arm attaches to the tail. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 20:08, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

::::::Hmm, smoothing groups... that could be what is making it feel a bit soft. Also, and this is probably a question for EdT, were this model's normals smoothed during import with OniSplit? I think the option "-normals" has to be used, but I want to make sure. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 17:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Besides that obvious issue, we are liking the changes in almost all cases. However, some new information has come to light about the "fanny pack", which we had previously agreed you should make smaller. Alex Okita informed us that it was going to be the ID's weak point. I don't know yet if we will be going with that original intent in our design of the ID fight, but I think we should at least leave it as a possibility. That means we should probably bring it up a lot closer to the original size in 17secs' model. It did seem to be larger in his model than it was in the trailer, but now it might be even smaller than the one in the trailer, and, in light of this new information, I'm sure you agree that we want to get it as close to the trailer size as possible, since we're now talking about a (potentially) critical piece of the model. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

::''"What kind of rescaling are we talking about?"'' I was localizing images that are externally-linked to from the wiki the other day when I came across this one that isn't in the collection on your user page:

::To me, it looks like 17secs was actually pretty much on the money with the "the big drums of ammo hanging from its butt" (I neglected to mention before that Okita told us that's what they were, hence why BW planned on them being a weak point). So, unless it's just me, it looks like the drum was supposed to be that big after all. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 17:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

:* Chainguns are a "duh", but what about the other weapons? (Edit: Actually, Loser brought up the idea of making the barrels PAR3s attached to the model, so they can rotate when they fire, is that doable?)

::::::I didn't realize it was that huge. Just add the <FadeToDeath> tag (or whatever its called) to the <Start> tag of the particle. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 17:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

:I have read that Iron demon was scaled. Somebody will have to scale "torn off" particles and position them so they spawn at respective places to make it look like these are really torn "arms" and "legs" of Iron Demon.

::ID_explo_e02 - here you can set positions ( in respective emitters ) where "torn off parts" particles are spawned.  

:::That is up to you ( you are animation artist ^_^ ). I can only tell you that when killed by particle attacks ( shots/blasts), engine looks for animation knockdown_head or for blownup animation. But since Iron Demon is going to have permanent "canttouchthis" ( so cannot be thrown or knockdowned ) it will be a bit easier. Make some nice death animation and give it to ID as its knockdown_head and blownup AnimType animations. That should be enough.

<span style="color:#808080">I see, in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLZ2hJZvrmo Second Oni Trailer], @1:25, the Iron Demon has a weapon variant on it's right arm. How do we do this?</span>

::You should be able to rename the bones, the names are used by OniSplit only to ensure that the children of a bone have the same order as in the original Oni skeleton. As for changing the hierarchy, hmm, that should work in theory, after all that's why [[TRIA]] exists. However in practice the engine might use hard coded bone indices. For example I have no idea how the engine knows which bone to attach a weapon to, it's not like in [[TRIA]] or somewhere else there's a flags that tells "this is the right hand". [[User:Neo|Neo]]

:::If all else fails, we can use particle based attacks. We could have up to six different attacks (P, K, J+P, J+K, C+P, C+K), or more if we utilized the combo system sneakily, so its not a huge problem. Recoil would be accomplished with a custom attack animation. These "weapons" would be completely built in though. I'm not sure how we would accomplish aiming though. The other possibility is to give it a dummy weapon and give the recoil animations particle attacks. We would be limited to two aiming attacks and two non aiming attacks though. (Using primary fire, secondary fire, jump, and crouch). We can burn those bridges when we come to them I suppose. When I get home I'll have to test out some AI behavior. Also, an image of the bone structure you are using might be nice. Having extra bones for a "vulnerable" part or retractable weapon would be cool. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 14:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

::For proof that the torso's also the "head", or face, see the collage of Lorraine's face portraits [[:Image:Oni_Faces.jpg|here]]. :-3 --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 02:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

the meaning of the "meter" factor wrong. This will be fixed.

the topology of Oni's generic "humanoid" skeleton.

supports angle-weighted normals; Mod Tool does." -- [[User:EdT|EdT]]

:* I think the Iron Demon definitely needs an additional weapon beyond the chainguns. We have to think ahead about that now, as it will affect the model. I propose a heat-seeking missile pod on the back, pointing upward. This would prevent the battle from becoming a simple game of "stay out of the ID's line of sight" and throw a wild card out there once in a while for Konoko to deal with. Assuming we can train the AI to use it correctly.

*the TRAS aiming screen closely resembles a section of Halo's model_animations tag. [http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:TRAS This] in Oni is like [http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=24629 this] in Halo, which I've done.  

  <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

  <Oni Version="0.9.41.0">

     <Texture>

         <Flags>HasMipMaps  AnimUseLocalTime</Flags>

         <Format>DXT1</Format>

         <Speed>4</Speed>

         <Image>TXMPID_mid_000.tga</Image>

         <Image>TXMPID_mid_001.tga</Image>

     </Texture>

  </Oni>

::::*Re: what weapon will be used against the Iron Demon... [[:Image:Forum_discussion-ID_&_Rla.jpg]] ^_^

::::*"look in the comic, and see what weapons the Demon uses there". You really don't want to know. Do you? Okay, [[:image:Oni_Comic_Issue_1_p23.jpg|here]], don't say I didn't warn you. Konoko then magically turns her pistol into a rocket launcher on page 3 of issue 2 and does [[:Image:Oni_Comic_Issue_2_p4.jpg|this]]. At least they got that last part right. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 03:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)