5,391
edits
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events (view source)
Revision as of 09:46, 9 June 2020
, 9 June 2020→The Scratch: A&Q
(→The Scratch: huh) |
(→The Scratch: A&Q) |
||
| Line 67: | Line 67: | ||
:That said, sure, maybe Hasegawa's not telling us everything -- or maybe sparing us some details, rather. Indeed it is possible that Jamie was headed for a fate worse than death, turning into something unspeakable -- like a screaming chunk of meat. Bones melted, eyes gone, skin coming off, but some of the brain/spine still functioning... Some of Jamie's lovely features still (barely) recognizable, and the last remains of her strength as a person being channelled into a drawn-out mix of wheezes and bubbles... Sorry, was that your lunch? --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:42, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | :That said, sure, maybe Hasegawa's not telling us everything -- or maybe sparing us some details, rather. Indeed it is possible that Jamie was headed for a fate worse than death, turning into something unspeakable -- like a screaming chunk of meat. Bones melted, eyes gone, skin coming off, but some of the brain/spine still functioning... Some of Jamie's lovely features still (barely) recognizable, and the last remains of her strength as a person being channelled into a drawn-out mix of wheezes and bubbles... Sorry, was that your lunch? --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:42, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::Well that's a morbid take on it. But we could just as easily assume she was transforming into an out-of-control Imago-type. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 02:59, 8 June 2020 (CEST) | ::Well that's a morbid take on it. But we could just as easily assume she was transforming into an out-of-control Imago-type. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 02:59, 8 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::Complete cellular breakdown, they wrote. Dying in my arms, he said (wrote?). Not much evidence for Imago (and, from human to Imago in minutes? really?) -- apart from those Barabas-like colors -- and you're colorblind. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 10:30, 9 June 2020 (CEST) | :::Complete cellular breakdown, they wrote (said?). Dying in my arms, he said (wrote?). Not much evidence for Imago (and, from human to Imago in minutes? really?) -- apart from those Barabas-like colors -- and you're colorblind. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 10:30, 9 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:As for taking a sample from Jamie's body -- the Hasegawas were traveling lightly, mostly planning on taking pictures, by the looks of it. If they had brought small bio-hazard-proof containers just in-case, then indeed he might have taken a probe right there and then (that's not mentioned in the "Murder or Mercy" article, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen). Without a proper container, he'd have to carry the "thing" wrapped up in clothes -- not very scientific. And best not think about showing it to Kerr later on... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:42, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | :As for taking a sample from Jamie's body -- the Hasegawas were traveling lightly, mostly planning on taking pictures, by the looks of it. If they had brought small bio-hazard-proof containers just in-case, then indeed he might have taken a probe right there and then (that's not mentioned in the "Murder or Mercy" article, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen). Without a proper container, he'd have to carry the "thing" wrapped up in clothes -- not very scientific. And best not think about showing it to Kerr later on... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:42, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:Since we're talking about the polaroids (oh wait, are we?), what about Hasegawa hugging Jamie's infected body like he's desperately trying to contract "it" from her, whatever "it" is? If the scene really happened, it's very unscientific indeed -- or maybe by then Hasegawa had realized that he was somehow immune to the stuff? Could it be that Hasegawa was already a symbiote by then? (muahahaha) Ahem. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:42, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | :Since we're talking about the polaroids (oh wait, are we?), what about Hasegawa hugging Jamie's infected body like he's desperately trying to contract "it" from her, whatever "it" is? If the scene really happened, it's very unscientific indeed -- or maybe by then Hasegawa had realized that he was somehow immune to the stuff? Could it be that Hasegawa was already a symbiote by then? (muahahaha) Ahem. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:42, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:As for taking samples from the Wilderness early on (from Jamie's body and from The Nightmare That Killed Her a.k.a. The Flowering Shrub), and not having to scout for samples later... That works if the Wilderness is all "one and the same" (as you seem to imply in SoW), but from the TNZ perspective (and the apriori perspective of Hasegawa in any case), you can't be sure about the uniform nature of the Wilderness unless you take more than one sample in more that one corner of more than one Zone. They had barely walked in when the scratch happened, so at the very least Hasegawa would have gone back for a bio-hazard suit and pushed towards the center of that same Zone. At least that's the kind of approach that would have made sense to me. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 19:03, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | :As for taking samples from the Wilderness early on (from Jamie's body and from The Nightmare That Killed Her a.k.a. The Flowering Shrub), and not having to scout for samples later... That works if the Wilderness is all "one and the same" (as you seem to imply in SoW), but from the TNZ perspective (and the apriori perspective of Hasegawa in any case), you can't be sure about the uniform nature of the Wilderness unless you take more than one sample in more that one corner of more than one Zone. They had barely walked in when the scratch happened, so at the very least Hasegawa would have gone back for a bio-hazard suit and pushed towards the center of that same Zone. At least that's the kind of approach that would have made sense to me. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 19:03, 7 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::Hasegawa wouldn't know if the Wilderness as a whole was saturated with the Daodan, but he wouldn't need to, nor does it need to be the case in TNZ. The logical thing to do, even while freshly in grief over Jamie, would have been to collect some of the plant that scratched her to take it back to the lab. As long as that plant contained the Daodan, it doesn't matter if anything else did. Or maybe he simply went back into the Preserve later, as you suggested. My main point was that the whole scenario can be a lot simpler than you were making it, unless you just preferred the drama of said scenario. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 02:59, 8 June 2020 (CEST) | ::Hasegawa wouldn't know if the Wilderness as a whole was saturated with the Daodan, but he wouldn't need to, nor does it need to be the case in TNZ. The logical thing to do, even while freshly in grief over Jamie, would have been to collect some of the plant that scratched her to take it back to the lab. As long as that plant contained the Daodan, it doesn't matter if anything else did. Or maybe he simply went back into the Preserve later, as you suggested. My main point was that the whole scenario can be a lot simpler than you were making it, unless you just preferred the drama of said scenario. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 02:59, 8 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::Hm, which drama/complexity of which scenario could you mean here? Excursions deeper into that same Zone (with a hazard suit) or into other Zones make perfect sense, but they're also completely optional. If Hasegawa is thorough as a scientist, he'll go through with it, but if he's lucky or lazy, he'll be satisfied with a few samples from the "crime scene". Clearly I am keen on the idea of Mukade being, if not an acolyte of Hasegawa, at least one of those "thugs" who earned an undisputed right to implantation early on -- and somehow he was tolerated by Muro later on, too, despite being an obvious rival. Early contribution to the Daodan project, such as infiltration and data/sample retrieval, could justify Mukade's apparent "emeritus" status. Of course, Mukade may just have been Muro's mentor, who "killed" Hasegawa and became the badass father that Muro always wanted -- but I feel like I'm not done with the Mukade~=Hasegawa theory at this point, so naturally I am exploring the bond that they may have developed when the project started, i.e., before Muro+Hasegawa and Mai+Kerr were separated. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 11:46, 9 June 2020 (CEST) | |||
:::For what it's worth, I am not entirely sure that it's the "flowering shrub" that caused the infection, and not, say, something in the air or dew or such (which would fit in better with the airborne "biological contamination" mentioned in {{C|4}}). Of course, if it's in the air, then it's not clear why it's not going for Jamie's and Hasegawa's eyes right away. Or, for that matter, if it's so pervasive, then why was it safe for Hasegawa to have Jamie dying "in [his] arms", almost French-kissing? It's all very sketchy. It could be resolved to some extent if we say that the Hasegawas ''were'' wearing some reasonable protection, and it's just Konoko's "dreamaroids" that picture them hiking them into a supposedly afflicted area unprotected. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 11:46, 9 June 2020 (CEST) | |||
:::"As long as that plant contained the Daodan, it doesn't matter if anything else did." As I said above, the similarities between Jamie's cellular breakdown and Daodan symbiosis are actually minor, and even Hasegawa's description of the Wilderness as a "poisonous world" doesn't quite fit, in my opinion. But, even if the bush was Daodan-enhanced, Hasegawa would want to know if it was just that one bush that was "poisonous", or that particular bush species, or, as he actually puts it, "the world outside the Atmospheric Processors". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 11:46, 9 June 2020 (CEST) | |||
:::One thing that you're not making clear in your Wilderness theory is how it spread a lot at first, engulfing large areas, and then seemingly stopped. If Daodan symbiosis propagates upon contact, and each affected cell becomes a new source, then wouldn't the WCG need to build new rings of fences every week? Also, it it's so good at spreading-upon-contact, then wouldn't it have hit Hasegawa too? Airplanes flying over a Zone notice contamination in the air -- spores? pollen? -- and Hasegawa is down there breathing that stuff... And, for that matter, if it causes noticable contamination on aircraft then why hasn't airborne propagation caused generalized Daodanization yet? --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 11:46, 9 June 2020 (CEST) | |||
===Daodan Genesis=== | ===Daodan Genesis=== | ||