Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions

:::::Sorry (again), but to me that kind of variety definitely sounds uncomfortably reminiscent of Nausicaä, and together with the apparent stability of "untamed" Daodan symbiosis (wildlife looking like regular wildlife) it's too much of a miracle. In {{C|12}}, at least, we would have seen at least some mention of the "raw Daodan" (Chrysalis-less), how stable and undetectable it is, how contagious it is (or not? one moment you say that a dandelion seed is enough to corrupt a whole area, and then you end up saying that it doesn't propagate between species?), and how it's actually at the heart of the "impending collapse of the Earth's biosphere" as perceived by Hasegawa -- we'd have seen at least some of that, unless Kerr himself was completely in the black about that whole part, and moreover Griffin's whole team of sci-goons was locked away from the truth somehow. If we turn to Oni material, then Daodan science (both on the TCTF side and the little we see of the Syndicate side at the Mountain Compound) seems to revolve around symbiosis and the Chrysalis. Mukade's creepy "torn apart to make way for what we will become" is Chrysalis-consistent and that's it. Muro, too, focuses on the Chrysalis as a source of power and opposes it only to "choking on dead air and foul water", seemingly considering the deadly pollution as generic and mostly man-made. The Directorate frowns down on Griffin's Damocles, seeing no justification for radical measures. So, at the end of the day, my question is: if there is, in Oni's world, a secret Daodan-powered biosphere competing with "ours", and if that secret never surfaces in canon Oni, then whose secret is it, really? --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 00:29, 12 June 2020 (CEST)

::::::You're right that Oni's canon has some implicit conflicts with my proposal. So does yours, unless you think Kerr just forgot to mention to Konoko that the Daodan aura seems to be intelligent. No matter what, a sequel with any commitment to specificity whatsoever is probably going to have to gently retcon the first game. I'm not concerned about small gaps between the canons of games made over 20 years apart. And remastering the original after Oni 2 will be a good opportunity to fix that ^_^ --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST)

::::::To be clear on my proposal, because I seem to be doing a bad job explaining it, a daodandelion seed would not be "corrupting" anything per se; it would simply be taking root and growing. The life that moves in from beyond the phase veil is exceptionally good at adapting to our world, and so the "other world" is gradually replacing our species invasively with its own. As these species grow, of course their natural byproducts are somewhat foreign and sometimes toxic to our existing life. Once the lowest trophic level, plant life, is established, that paves the way for insect and animal life that lives off these plants. That in turn paves the way for the meat-eating life, the predators of the other world. Eventually the trophic level will rise to the point that the Daomen can move back in to their old world. I don't claim that this is an iron-tight scenario, but it's the premise I've been working from. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST)

:::"As long as that plant contained the Daodan, it doesn't matter if anything else did." As I said above, the similarities between Jamie's cellular breakdown and Daodan symbiosis are actually minor, and even Hasegawa's notion of a "poisonous world" doesn't quite describe the Wilderness as you see it (in my opinion), as well as Muro's "dead air and foul water". But, even if the bush was Daodan-enhanced, Hasegawa would want to know if it was just that one bush that was "poisonous", or that particular bush species, or, as he actually puts it, the whole "world outside the Atmospheric Processors". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 11:46, 9 June 2020 (CEST)

:::One thing that you're not making clear in your Wilderness theory is how it spread a lot at first, engulfing large areas, and then seemingly stopped. If Daodan symbiosis propagates upon contact, and each affected cell becomes a new source, then wouldn't the WCG need to build new rings of fences every week? Also, it it's so good at spreading-upon-contact, then wouldn't it have hit Hasegawa too? Airplanes flying over a Zone notice contamination in the air -- spores? pollen? -- and Hasegawa is down there breathing that stuff... And, for that matter, if it causes noticable contamination on aircraft then why hasn't airborne propagation caused generalized Daodanization yet? --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 11:46, 9 June 2020 (CEST)

:::::The Phase can give a sci-fi twist to WMD/NBC dumps -- experimental teleportation gone bad, or secret labs inside the Zones, rather than dumps --, but that's as far as I would go (at least that's how I feel right now). Dumps/leaks (Phase-enhanced or not) can be contained if the WCG really care about solving the issue, but if they don't then the Zones can just be fenced off, with airborne emanations contributing to the BioCrisis, but only steadily rather than exponentially, allowing the WCG to counter with ACC upgrades -- a perfect "pet threat". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:25, 11 June 2020 (CEST)

::::::You raise good points. I have not given much thought yet to how my Xeno-Wilderness is being contained. I figured that placing the typical SF "energy shields" around the perimeter would be good enough to convey a sense of containment. The WCG itself is unaware as of the start of Oni 2 just how much life is escaping containment above and below that fence, but this would be revealed in the course of the story. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST)

::::::I'd actually like to back up to a higher level and address what I think is your largest single question, which is, "Why complicate things when it's clear that Hardy just intended the Preserves to be waste dumps?" I felt it was necessary to diverge from this approach precisely because of the derivative feeling of the "social commentary". Industrial pollution, large corporations, yada yada. Been there, done that dystopia. Likewise, if Oni's world was said to be warming dangerously, I would find some way to subvert that narrative into a more interesting, less "concern of the moment" type of problem. Star Trek IV was entertaining but nowadays nobody has any idea what it's going on about with all that whale stuff. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST)

===Daodan Genesis===