5,391
edits
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events (view source)
Revision as of 14:09, 29 June 2020
, 29 June 2020→Wilderness Preserves: replies in the WP section
No edit summary |
(→Wilderness Preserves: replies in the WP section) |
||
| Line 60: | Line 60: | ||
:::::::::::::Strange thing to disagree on, but I think you're reading me wrong (my bad?). At this point in time, I am clearly rationalizing the Phase as a "boundary" or "fringe" immediately adjacent to our world, as opposed to an "actual" world on the "other side". I am not too keen on calling it a "veil" because the word doesn't occur in canon, but that's the only difference I can identify. In slightly different terms, my Phase (your veil) is a "hub world" (or non-world) not unlike Star Wars' "hyperspace" (you can warp/travel through it, but you can't live there permanently). That said, I still think it's fair to say that Screamers come "from the Phase", and to assimilate the Phase (to some extent) with the world(s) that lie beyond it -- because, as seen from our world, there isn't much of a difference between the other world(s) and the "veil" that leads to them (because all we ever see is the latter). We most definitely agree on the interpretation of lowercased "phase" as a measure of "Earth-closeness" or "here-and-now-ness". Regular Earth objects are "in phase" with "our" Earth, and paranormal phenomena/entities are more or less "out of phase" or "phase-shifted". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::Strange thing to disagree on, but I think you're reading me wrong (my bad?). At this point in time, I am clearly rationalizing the Phase as a "boundary" or "fringe" immediately adjacent to our world, as opposed to an "actual" world on the "other side". I am not too keen on calling it a "veil" because the word doesn't occur in canon, but that's the only difference I can identify. In slightly different terms, my Phase (your veil) is a "hub world" (or non-world) not unlike Star Wars' "hyperspace" (you can warp/travel through it, but you can't live there permanently). That said, I still think it's fair to say that Screamers come "from the Phase", and to assimilate the Phase (to some extent) with the world(s) that lie beyond it -- because, as seen from our world, there isn't much of a difference between the other world(s) and the "veil" that leads to them (because all we ever see is the latter). We most definitely agree on the interpretation of lowercased "phase" as a measure of "Earth-closeness" or "here-and-now-ness". Regular Earth objects are "in phase" with "our" Earth, and paranormal phenomena/entities are more or less "out of phase" or "phase-shifted". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::Okay, well I could agree with that concept, but I think it's pretty confusing to use the same word as Oni (except with a capital letter) with a different definition. And again, the "phase veil" is the ''wall'' between our world and another, not a space. Neither I nor Hardy have ever suggested a name for the other side(s). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::Okay, well I could agree with that concept, but I think it's pretty confusing to use the same word as Oni (except with a capital letter) with a different definition. And again, the "phase veil" is the ''wall'' between our world and another, not a space. Neither I nor Hardy have ever suggested a name for the other side(s). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::::::Slight déjà vu notwithstanding, let me stress again that we ''do'' agree about the "wall"/veil thing -- there is the frontier/boundary that is in our immediate reach, and the world(s) that may lie beyond it. Hardy makes a distinction between the "veil" and the Screamers' homeworld (unnamed), so perhaps that means that we should make that distinction, too (if we're keen on honoring Hardy's post-canon revelations, that is). My only amendment to this view -- already stated above -- is that the parallel worlds (if any) are not something that we can perceive or access directly, therefore ''from our point of view they effectively make one with the "veil"'' (unless/until we manage to probe the "other side" somehow). Hence our freedom to attribute a loose collective term (Phase) ''both'' to the frontier ''and'' to whatever may lie beyond (because Oni's scientists simply don't know better, and cannot distinguish the "veil" from the "worlds beyond" in the same way as us writers do). In that view, the capitalized Phase can be seen as designating the whole range of uncharted phase-space -- "veil" and "world(s) beyond" combined -- which to me seems like a valid metonymy. If it works for you, consider it a popular-mechanics kind of shorthand for the "real thing" (the technical term could be something like "Earth-phase-congruant spacetime manifold"). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 16:09, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | |||
:::::::::::::P.S. About the Phase/veil -- "you can warp/travel through it, but you can't live there permanently" -- except maybe if you're immaterial? In the case of Screaming Cells and Daodan entities, there are no clear rules that would prevent them from living "in" the veil, so to speak -- as temporary/timeless disturbances of this ever-changing "fringe/hub world". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 13:42, 20 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::P.S. About the Phase/veil -- "you can warp/travel through it, but you can't live there permanently" -- except maybe if you're immaterial? In the case of Screaming Cells and Daodan entities, there are no clear rules that would prevent them from living "in" the veil, so to speak -- as temporary/timeless disturbances of this ever-changing "fringe/hub world". --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 13:42, 20 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::Just so you know (or remember), projected weapons for "my" Oni2 included a "halver" (something that would decrease your presence in this world with every hit, and shifting presence to "another world" (or to immaterial "limbo presence"); while "halved" you would be less visible to others, and you would get visions of the Phase (and/or of the "other" world). Same for teleporting -- while "phased out" your vision of the "real world" is blurred and augmented with "phase visions", not unlike wearing the ring in Jackson's LOTR. I also wanted to have "screaming swords" and "screaming whips" -- life-draining, blood-less "cold weapons", which would operate and look similarly to Spirit claws/tentacles from Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:24, 12 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::Just so you know (or remember), projected weapons for "my" Oni2 included a "halver" (something that would decrease your presence in this world with every hit, and shifting presence to "another world" (or to immaterial "limbo presence"); while "halved" you would be less visible to others, and you would get visions of the Phase (and/or of the "other" world). Same for teleporting -- while "phased out" your vision of the "real world" is blurred and augmented with "phase visions", not unlike wearing the ring in Jackson's LOTR. I also wanted to have "screaming swords" and "screaming whips" -- life-draining, blood-less "cold weapons", which would operate and look similarly to Spirit claws/tentacles from Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 18:24, 12 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
| Line 83: | Line 84: | ||
:::::::::::::The variety of "natural" Daodan symbiosis occurring throughout the WPs (per your theory) is completely missing from Daodan science as it is exposed in Oni -- that's all I'm saying. As for pollution, we all agree that Hasegawa's "we are all doomed" is a bit of an exaggeration (at the time of Oni's events, both Kerr and the rest of the Daodan team seem to think that Hasegawa's response was somewhat disproportionate). The WPs are poisonous enough for Jamie to die a gruesome death from her first scratch, and poisonous enough for a ban on WP flyovers. No more, no less. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::The variety of "natural" Daodan symbiosis occurring throughout the WPs (per your theory) is completely missing from Daodan science as it is exposed in Oni -- that's all I'm saying. As for pollution, we all agree that Hasegawa's "we are all doomed" is a bit of an exaggeration (at the time of Oni's events, both Kerr and the rest of the Daodan team seem to think that Hasegawa's response was somewhat disproportionate). The WPs are poisonous enough for Jamie to die a gruesome death from her first scratch, and poisonous enough for a ban on WP flyovers. No more, no less. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::I take the opposite view of Hasegawa: that he was a prophet ahead of his time. Like Jor-El, he foresaw the destruction of the world, but wasn't listened to. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::I take the opposite view of Hasegawa: that he was a prophet ahead of his time. Like Jor-El, he foresaw the destruction of the world, but wasn't listened to. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::::::It would be rather anthropocentric to interpret a threat to humankind as "the destruction of the world". Hasegawa's comparatively humble endeavor was to let the world move on while allowing humans to survive the change. Whether he was a prophet, and what of, is debatable. Impending doom is not something I find very compelling (boring, rather), but that's just my opinion. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 16:09, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | |||
:::::::::::::I wouldn't advise trivializing Oni canon and implying that the "straight" reading is that a WP is "just" a toxic waste dump, or that the origin of the waste is 100% industrial. We Do Not Know. Some elements of canon hint at a military origin for the waste (ghastly bioweapons that were either developed, tested or dumped in "easy to ignore" areas), or at unethical "rogue science" during the years preceding the WCG's firm technology control. A "phase twist" is also possible, like teleportation/annihilation experiments gone wrong, or phase-induced mutation of Earth organisms (not as elegant as the Chrysalis, but enough to make an impression on Hasegawa). You said "good points" to all of this down below -- when I said that Contaminated Zones weren't reduced to industrial dumps in Oni canon, and that there were lots of ways to detail them without resorting to alien ingerence. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::I wouldn't advise trivializing Oni canon and implying that the "straight" reading is that a WP is "just" a toxic waste dump, or that the origin of the waste is 100% industrial. We Do Not Know. Some elements of canon hint at a military origin for the waste (ghastly bioweapons that were either developed, tested or dumped in "easy to ignore" areas), or at unethical "rogue science" during the years preceding the WCG's firm technology control. A "phase twist" is also possible, like teleportation/annihilation experiments gone wrong, or phase-induced mutation of Earth organisms (not as elegant as the Chrysalis, but enough to make an impression on Hasegawa). You said "good points" to all of this down below -- when I said that Contaminated Zones weren't reduced to industrial dumps in Oni canon, and that there were lots of ways to detail them without resorting to alien ingerence. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 14:34, 19 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::On a sidenote, I don't see a strong correlation with Nausicaa's and my work, so perhaps this Miyazaki manga is just an obsession of yours. I could easily reduce your ideas to references to existing works as well, but haven't done so. "There is nothing new under the sun." All we can do is try to present old ideas in a new light. Presuming that you can create anything truly novel is vanity. And putting words in my mouth to make my ideas seem more Nausicaa-like is especially rude, so please stop. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::On a sidenote, I don't see a strong correlation with Nausicaa's and my work, so perhaps this Miyazaki manga is just an obsession of yours. I could easily reduce your ideas to references to existing works as well, but haven't done so. "There is nothing new under the sun." All we can do is try to present old ideas in a new light. Presuming that you can create anything truly novel is vanity. And putting words in my mouth to make my ideas seem more Nausicaa-like is especially rude, so please stop. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST) | ||