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Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions
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::::::::::::::I don't think I'll repeat myself any more on this subject. I thought I was clear enough when I stated that these plants can grow at any speed that we find convenient for our purposes, and it will be plausible. How fast does a plant spread in real life? Now, how fast does a super-plant spread, when it's up against an alien ecosystem? Probably the same speed. So why can't the WCG just move their fences out a few yards every year? Problem solved. End of discussion. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::I don't think I'll repeat myself any more on this subject. I thought I was clear enough when I stated that these plants can grow at any speed that we find convenient for our purposes, and it will be plausible. How fast does a plant spread in real life? Now, how fast does a super-plant spread, when it's up against an alien ecosystem? Probably the same speed. So why can't the WCG just move their fences out a few yards every year? Problem solved. End of discussion. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 00:58, 7 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::I was reviewing the manual, and realized that we both forgot a very important sentence: "The poor bastards who can't afford to live in the cities get as close to the atmosphere processors as they can and eke out a miserable (and dangerous) existence working on the reclamation teams who beat back the corrosive stain of the wilderness." So there is in fact a "Wilderness Preserve Task Force", as you put it. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:55, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::::::I was reviewing the manual, and realized that we both forgot a very important sentence: "The poor bastards who can't afford to live in the cities get as close to the atmosphere processors as they can and eke out a miserable (and dangerous) existence working on the reclamation teams who beat back the corrosive stain of the wilderness." So there is in fact a "Wilderness Preserve Task Force", as you put it. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 17:55, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::::::Thanks, that's a tad more constructive than the previous iteration (I mean, really? "move their fences out a few yards every year", when the flight path of an airborne seed clearly isn't limited to "a few yards" in any particular direction?). I am still not a big fan of the manual, though, and there would be quite a contrast between the dignified TCTF and the "poor bastards [...] who beat back the corrosive stain of the wilderness". Even if the "reclamation teams" are an official initiative of the WCG, it all seems a bit half-hearted and desperate (although it may look good in propaganda: "See? We're aware of your stupid eco-issues, and we actually have a task force that picks at it 24/7!"), and it doesn't quite match the idea of a top-secret WCG initiative that I had in my mind (not sure about you). But, if we must, then this can be an interesting take on the WCG's penal system: is there capital punishment? or does the WCG favor "death by exile" instead? and/or are the outcasts forced (more or less formally) into slave-like labor in the "reclamation teams" (as the manual entry would suggest)? P.S. The outer "and" conjunction in the manual quote looks like it could/should have been an "or", otherwise it would mean that the day-to-day reclamation struggle is happening right at the doors of every big city -- and that would be kinda hard to overlook, even if you leave out the "alien" nature of the contamination as per SoW. I would insist on the "or" here ("get as close to the atmosphere processors as they can ''or'' eke out a miserable existence working on the reclamation teams"), i.e., separate the slums at the outskirts of ACC-protected areas from the "bio-trenches" (if any) that surround the most virulent and aggressive Wilderness Preserves. It remains to be debated why/how the Hasegawas were able to waltz right into a Contaminated Zone virtually unprotected, oblivious of any reclamation protocol that there may have been (unless maybe there wasn't any at the time, and Jamie's death was one of the first swallows? in any case, the rationalization of the Bio-Crisis would need some more work). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 20:42, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::::::Thanks, that's a tad more constructive than the previous iteration (I mean, really? "move their fences out a few yards every year", when the flight path of an airborne seed clearly isn't limited to "a few yards" in any particular direction?). I am still not a big fan of the manual, though, and there would be quite a contrast between the dignified TCTF and the "poor bastards [...] who beat back the corrosive stain of the wilderness". Even if the "reclamation teams" are an official initiative of the WCG, it all seems a bit half-hearted and desperate (although it may look good in propaganda: "See? We're aware of your stupid eco-issues, and we actually have a task force that picks at it 24/7!"), and it doesn't quite match the idea of a top-secret WCG initiative that I had in my mind (not sure about you). But, if we must, then this can be an interesting take on the WCG's penal system: is there capital punishment? or does the WCG favor "death by exile" instead? and/or are the outcasts forced (more or less formally) into slave-like labor in the "reclamation teams" (as the manual entry would suggest)? P.S. The outer "and" conjunction in the manual quote looks like it could/should have been an "or", otherwise it would mean that the day-to-day reclamation struggle is happening right at the doors of every big city -- and that would be kinda hard to overlook, even if you leave out the "alien" nature of the contamination as per SoW. I would insist on the "or" here ("get as close to the atmosphere processors as they can ''or'' eke out a miserable existence working on the reclamation teams"), i.e., separate the slums at the outskirts of ACC-protected areas from the "bio-trenches" (if any) that surround the most virulent and aggressive Wilderness Preserves. It remains to be debated why/how the Hasegawas were able to waltz right into a Contaminated Zone virtually unprotected, oblivious of any reclamation protocol that there may have been (unless maybe there wasn't any at the time, and Jamie's death was one of the first swallows? in any case, the rationalization of the Bio-Crisis would need some more work). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 20:42, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::::::::I think I need to walk you through what I'm trying to say about the spread of the zones referred to as Wilderness Preserves, according to my take on the story. Let me ask you, if a "daodandelion" seed floats 300 yards outside the Preserve, settles somewhere and takes root, what happens? The answer is nothing. Very slowly, the dandelion may spread further with each generation, but it's still just a few tiny plants. There's no crisis there. If the WCG moves its fences out each year, it's only to capture the lion's share of the new zone. They're not going to capture everything within that new zone, and that's kind of the point: that it's not totally under control. I never stated, implied, or thought that these Daodan-powered plants are growing overnight, or growing ten feet tall. So there was nothing wrong with my suggestion. If you still think you see a problem with it, then please be more specific, or ask questions rather than trying to mind-read my notion of the Wilderness. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 22:09, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | |||
::::::::::::::::Secondly, you're reading the manual's sentence too literally. The poor people who can't live within an ACC's main area of effect live in something like a shantytown outside city limits. The job that some of them have is going to work every day fighting against the spread of the BioCrisis. That doesn't mean the Wilderness is right outside the cities. It just means that they have a rough job and that they live on the edge of the habitable zone. I'm sure that "and" was really meant there. What the sentence doesn't tell us how far they commute to work each day. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 22:09, 27 July 2020 (CEST) | |||
::::::::::It may seem naive of the WCG to think they can contain the Wilderness, but they might know full well that it's a losing battle. They also are taking steps to contain the growing Wilderness, but clearly they're losing since the toxins in the air are increasing, according to Oni. Also, to whatever degree they're wrong about how well they have it contained, that's our way of adding some drama to the story. Finding out that the trophic level of the Wilderness is advancing to herbivores, insectivores, and then carnivores will be an alarming development. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::It may seem naive of the WCG to think they can contain the Wilderness, but they might know full well that it's a losing battle. They also are taking steps to contain the growing Wilderness, but clearly they're losing since the toxins in the air are increasing, according to Oni. Also, to whatever degree they're wrong about how well they have it contained, that's our way of adding some drama to the story. Finding out that the trophic level of the Wilderness is advancing to herbivores, insectivores, and then carnivores will be an alarming development. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::The [[Quotes/Consoles#STURMANDERUNG_:_Secondary_Stage|increasing air toxicity]] is one of the most ambiguous parts of Oni canon. Not only does it involve the infamous "36.18% increase" of Dioxin levels, but it seemingly presents the toxin rise as a consequence of Muro's retrofitting of the ACCs. At no point are the WPs stated as a prominent source of airborne toxins in Oni's world: all we have is "biological contamination" encountered during flyovers, and the uncanny "virus" from Jamie's bush. Of course it doesn't mean that toxins don't emanate from the Contaminated Zones at all, but it doesn't establish the WPs as the planet's "toxic lungs", either. If anything, I'd blame a WCG-era toxin rise (pre-Muro) on imperfect waste processing procedures at the ACCs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::The [[Quotes/Consoles#STURMANDERUNG_:_Secondary_Stage|increasing air toxicity]] is one of the most ambiguous parts of Oni canon. Not only does it involve the infamous "36.18% increase" of Dioxin levels, but it seemingly presents the toxin rise as a consequence of Muro's retrofitting of the ACCs. At no point are the WPs stated as a prominent source of airborne toxins in Oni's world: all we have is "biological contamination" encountered during flyovers, and the uncanny "virus" from Jamie's bush. Of course it doesn't mean that toxins don't emanate from the Contaminated Zones at all, but it doesn't establish the WPs as the planet's "toxic lungs", either. If anything, I'd blame a WCG-era toxin rise (pre-Muro) on imperfect waste processing procedures at the ACCs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||