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geyser wrote in OCF
"Not that they make plotwise sense: just so that we know who's got used to seeing/hearing what, and what we might need to stress/disambiguate when quoting the "canonical" English material."
I think that hits the nail onto head.


Muro & Griffin & friends

Original English version
Griffin is dead ->
15_59_02 Muro: Glorious, isn't it? This is the future. Join me or die like all the others, choking on dead air and foul water. I have accomplished everything our father dreamed of doing.
Griffin is alive ->
15_60_03 Muro: He used you. Join me or die like all the others, choking on dead air and foul water. I have accomplished everything our father dreamed of doing.
German version
Griffin is alive ->
15_60_03 Muro: Er hat dich benutzt. Schließ dich mir an oder verrecke an der giftigen Luft und dem faulen Wasser wie all die anderen. Ich habe alles erreicht, wovon dein Vater träumte.
back translated into English
Griffin is alive ->
15_60_03 Muro: He used you. Join me or die like all the others, choking on dead air and foul water. I have accomplished everything your father dreamed of doing.
The thing woke my interest because sound dialogue was also changed to "your father".
Someone could think that Muro didn't know about his father (if you didn't kill Griffin). But this idea cannot stand:
  1. there have to be something like a decision bridge, but that isn't the case
  2. there are other translation which wasn't changed in meaning
"decision bridge"?
geyser 19:09, 7 February 2007 (CET)


Original English version
15_61_01 Konoko: When I blew the processors I bought us some time, but at a horrible cost. The dead and the dying now line the streets but it is impossible to deny the problem any longer. My father's work may prove to be the salvation of the afflicted after all.
German version
15_61_01 Konoko: Die Sprengung der Prozessoren hat uns ein bisschen Zeit gebracht, aber zu einem schrecklichen Preis. Die Toten und Sterbenden säumen die Straßen, doch das Problem lässt sich nicht länger leugnen. Vielleicht erweist sich die Arbeit meines Vaters doch noch als die Lösung.
back translated into English
15_61_01 Konoko: Blowing the processors bought us some time, [...]
It sounds like Konoko doesn't feel that it was her fault. This passive construction include her person in a way but lets place for speculation...
I think speculation is not the word I'd use even for Muro up there (who cares what the translators were smoking?).
Additionally, that one (OutroKonoko) is unconvincing. It's free translation, not literal, and the meaning is preserved.
You may just as well have mentioned the "now", which disappeared in th German version (in "now line the streets").
I'm curious what you think about the "but"/"doch" (what is she "but"ting?), and about the Problem (what problem could she mean?).
geyser 19:09, 7 February 2007 (CET)
Hm, I didn’t concentrate on “nowˮ, “butˮ and “problemˮ so far. Let me speculate a bit (... adding value for a fictional text ^^ ) In aspect of translation: “nowˮ is just an additional signal word for present time, in exist also in German but isn’t that much used. It missing shouldn’t be a “problemˮ like Konoko’s passive. (Well, how you said: it’s free translation, so let us just forget it.)
Key word “problemˮ... I think it refer to catastrophe’s cause. Dead people = problem; toxic air = cause. After that everyone will ask the cause’s cause... toxic air <= exploded AACs <= Syndicate’s and Konoko’s actions <= and in the end (if the mad mob wants to know – hey, right now this made it impossible...) they ask about WCG non-doing of preventing more toxins. Here goes some manual sentence:
The World Coalition Government realizes the extent of the ecological damage and has the ability to reverse a lot of it but has decided not to. It is in their best interest to maintain the centralization of wealth so the large population centers are preserved while "third world" regions are not. As a bonus the mounting death toll solves some of their overpopulation problems.
Anarchy as well (with or without Muro) -- it’s not even propaganda, it’s the truth:
  1. WCG is blamed for “let air becoming toxicˮ.
  2. Syndicate is blamed for “made increasing this shitˮ.
Result: chaos. The truth helps nobody, how ironic.
In facing of that threat there are two possibilities:
  1. Syndicate could make an abstract PR show, blaming Konoko for everything. “She was ordered (by WCG!) to conserve status quo by blowing new poison into air.ˮ (Remember Tech Hint 1 ... it’s non-sense but perhaps effective in front of a mad mob.)
  2. Or they come to an agreement; you call it META already, right?
Maybe they will do both: first hunting(*) Konoko and stuff, then get to fusion with WCG.
(*)could be easy reason for getting Oni 2 melees.
More possibilities depend on Daodan interpretation (more “human-sizedˮ ... but not now.)
I hope you I was able to filled your curiosity.^^
paradox 22:30, 8 February 2007 (CET)
My own (rather ancient) inquisition can be found here (page 6, end of post 254).
You didn't address the "but". As for the "problem", the "cause of the cause of the cause" is a bit far-fetched, but indeed nothing else seems to make sense. Or rather...
My current impression is that the WCG is completely ignored by Mai in her final statement.
Her final words are about Hasegawa's "dream" coming true: the Chrysalis becoming the only way to save the world from "the nightmare that killed [Jamie]".
The "problem" seems to be that "mankind as we knew it is doomed". Pollution taken as such, regardless the causes and responsibilities and possible "soft" solutions. "The world [...] is poisonous".
Whether the WCG could/can do something about it is not the point. Mai's and Hasegawa's (and Muro's) "point" is that fighting pollution is a no-way. You have to "adapt to the new world", and that's what everybody's been "denying". (note that it's their POV, not mine)
The "but" then also makes sense. Sure, pollution is killing millions/billions worldwide, but at least it's clear that we're all doomed unless...
In this catastrophic situation, the Chrysalis gets a chance to actually prove its worth: "the salvation of the afflicted". "After all" because without the catastrophe it didn't stand a chance (regulation, scientific approach, unbiased ethics, etc).
So, now that the closing tirade is clear, the question is: in how far is it realistic? How much of Mai's wishful thinking will actually come true?
I'll be moving these considerations somewhere (maybe posting them on Oni Central Forum), obviously.
Maybe onto stripey's "Human society after..." thread? How about posting your stuff first?
geyser 12:56, 9 February 2007 (CET)
As for the Mai=scapegoat thing, obviously if neither the WCG nor the beheaded Syndicate are interested in chaos, they will both blame everything on Mai/Muro/Hasegawa.
In very many ways, Hasegawa is a mad scientist, overreacting to his wife's death, and dedicating his life to a revolution of mankind and society.
Muro was acting in that direction, and at the end of Oni, Mai is no better: she really feels like preaching that "Mankind as we knew it is doomed. The Chrysalis will change us all".
It's really nice how this connects to Sturm & Drang (Loser was the first one who pointed it out).
Blaming everything on the Hasegawas is not only convenient; it's actually fair. So there's no reason for the Syndicate or the WCG to blame anything on each other. Thus nothing stands in the way of fusion.
As for Mai, what would happen if she becomes the public enemy is, in short, a nightmare ^^
geyser 12:56, 9 February 2007 (CET)
Quote from ASFO2 page 6: Mr. Alloc, [...] just kill Muro and listen to the cinematic : "When I blew the Processors...".
Isn't he German too? who cares what the translators were smoking? For Oni 2 we should care^^
I don't like the idea of setting a whole sequel in a post- apocalyptic environment
I will work on more background theories..
That she turned a world-wide ultimatum in world-wide desolation. They'll "help her understand" just what her action has made her in the eyes of the public, that she couldn't have harmed the world's population more or helped the Syndicate in a more direct way than by doing what she did.
You mentioned ultimatum, so Muro didn't wanted an apocalypse. You thought in a "human-sized" way.^^ That would be a crossing point for my own stuff.
She ignored WCG - yes because the first cause is the toxic air (you mentioned here, I did in forum). The Chaining is more out of a neutral one's view and out of her view. She don't care about past (general pollution) and future (desolation), she wanted to rescue the world by killing Muro only -- now your They'll "help her understand" from above comes again.
From ASFO2-thread (page 7 again): I don't want do diabolize the Daodan(*)
How much of Mai's wishful thinking will actually come true?
Hm, after all that talk in "Strange things about Oni's plotline" thread.. - What is then about Muro's poetry..?
Mai=scapegoat [...] Thus nothing stands in the way of fusion. + As for Mai, what would happen if she becomes the public enemy is, in short, a nightmare ^^
Absolute, in a first view Oni 2 gameplay would become mostly impossible. We need massive constructions .. erm, discussions how to..^^
paradox 21:10, 9 February 2007 (CET) (last edit: 21:31, 11 February)