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Hi ONIrules,
ONIrules, here a few words of advice about using the wiki.
I have been watching you for some time (I mean it in good, no stalking ^_^). Looks like you are similar to me in terms of modifying ONI. How about joining our forces together?
#Putting the plasma rifle discussion right in the middle of the factual information on your talk page was a bad idea: it made the page look a lot messier than usual. I'm taking the liberty of moving the "conversation" to a (temporary) section of your talk page.
 
#Don't upload illustrations on the wiki unless they are meant to serve a long-term purpose. My assault rifle screenshots, for example, are making a general point about quality standards ("if you're using ripped content, at least do it right"). For your textures, you could just as well have used your drop.io or shareapic account.
Point is: Your TRAM hacks are awesome, but there IS already similar idea by me. I am not saying I am better, NO. We are SAME. Just...I am working on enhanced TRAM system now, this time I want to do more job than just add a few flashes/trails and make a few moves deal more damage or stagger enemy. I want to make combat system a bit deeper, less spam-able and maybe more fun.
#If you ''do'' have to upload an image, don't use a name like "Ripped.PNG", because we have hundreds of images on the wiki, and they are all stored in one same namespace. The names have to be as specific and un-ambiguous as possible, whether they are part of "public" collections or are used to illustrate "private" articles or discussions.
 
And that's about it. For rifle-specific notes, see below.
My visions:
:[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 02:49, 8 November 2008 (CET)
*add wall smashing (3 particle system) to knockdowns and some throws, so combat is more environment-interactive
*add new TRACs for boss-characters (Barabus, Mukade), modify their moves so they are more powerful (not overpowered, just more powerful)
*add new moves for these TRACs, of course these will be modificated moves that are already present in ONI (I cannot create new moves so far, I have tried and FAILED ^_^)
*get rid of riddculously large throw distances of come chars (strikers- throw range 20!), make throws work more like "counter attacks" than like regular moves
*overall add some "new moves" such as side rolls (not that pseudo-roll which is made when you move mouse while character lies on the ground, but real side roll, should be performed by pressing left/right key while on the ground, which will make character roll quickly ''to the side'', not on one place)
*reduce invulnerability of some moves (mainly specials and throws) so you are vulnerable at the beginning/near the end of the move. This should makespecials less spam-able
*get rid of unblockables as much as possible (no it is not fun to have unblockables, AI2 is dumb in this and WILL try to block these attacks), some unblockables are must (RIF moves for example) these should do only symbolic damage to avoid abusing
*in terms of special attacks, replace unblockable with heavy stagger if attack was blocked + of course set 1/2 block damage flag for these moves
*maybe change ninja's block for "pseudo dodge" for Mukade
*and lots of other changes
 
This is NOT full list, it is just brainstormed right at the moment from what I have in my head for at last 2 years. If you join, we will discuss details before we get to work. I want, because in two it will be easier.
 
So...would you like me to join you on our (almost same) goal? If yes, then we can make sorta mini-team (2 people ^_^) which will do this TRAM modding for others.
 
Please write your reply in this discussion,
 
--[[User:Loser|Loser]] 16:15, 3 August 2008 (CEST)


==Modding melee TRAM==
Loser: please keep your modding focused, so that you don't spend ages designing "new moves" when you could include them in a later release; please keep your modding modular, so that the more controversial parts can be made optional in a release; please distribute .oni files rather than OUP-importable data chunks when you can; please double-check your modded .raw parts carefully, because you don't want the release to be plagued with memory corruption; what is the most current release of your modded TRAM (did you fix all of the issues present [http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/20080121/ HERE]?), and do you believe it is ''stable'' (i.e., that it doesn't cause memory corruption and random crashes)? Please reply. Oh, and once your roadmap is clear enough, you can put that kind of talk on AE:Melee and AE_talk:Melee (and on more specific pages like AE:Spam-proof_melee and AE:Char-env_collision and...)
Loser: please keep your modding focused, so that you don't spend ages designing "new moves" when you could include them in a later release; please keep your modding modular, so that the more controversial parts can be made optional in a release; please distribute .oni files rather than OUP-importable data chunks when you can; please double-check your modded .raw parts carefully, because you don't want the release to be plagued with memory corruption; what is the most current release of your modded TRAM (did you fix all of the issues present [http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/20080121/ HERE]?), and do you believe it is ''stable'' (i.e., that it doesn't cause memory corruption and random crashes)? Please reply. Oh, and once your roadmap is clear enough, you can put that kind of talk on AE:Melee and AE_talk:Melee (and on more specific pages like AE:Spam-proof_melee and AE:Char-env_collision and...)
:[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:41, 3 August 2008 (CEST)
:[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:41, 3 August 2008 (CEST)


Join forces?!?!No problem ,but I'm not quite an expert yet. In fact I should call you an expert Loser. I mean you did a lot of things (the old warehouse mod, which makes me start to hack TRAMS) and videos like "Revenge" (I love that). I will try and decide to team up with you!!! Also don't expect much on me when I write scripts. To me is kinda hard. Sorry about taking your idea. It also love to edit TRAMS too ^_^ --[[User:ONIrules|ONIrules]]  August 2008 (EST)
----


----
THANKS ONIrules!!!
THANKS ONIrules!!!
OK, first: geyser, I have read and aknowledged. Will try to do it that way.
OK, first: geyser, I have read and aknowledged. Will try to do it that way.
Line 62: Line 44:


:Thats a lot!! Since this is my first time, it will be a little unclear. So Loser, just tell me first the things step by step. Then I can follow your task. You don't have to remind of the characters that I'm going to do. Its in my brain ^_^[[User:ONIrules|ONIrules]]  August 2008 (EST)
:Thats a lot!! Since this is my first time, it will be a little unclear. So Loser, just tell me first the things step by step. Then I can follow your task. You don't have to remind of the characters that I'm going to do. Its in my brain ^_^[[User:ONIrules|ONIrules]]  August 2008 (EST)
::Can you post a screenshot or even the files of your new character? [[User:EdT|EdT]] 21:53, 3 August 2008 (CEST)
''EdT'': I don't think he means whole new character, but "his" TRAMs (his half of work).
''Paradox'': I know about that fact, but thanks for mentioning it. Yes, numbers are shifted because list should start with ZERO, but it start with one.
''ONIrules'':OK, it is decided. I write you this step by step list how to work on one TRAM in way I want and let's get to work. When you are finished, write here + post .oni files.
First, terminology we will be using for fields in attack part of the TRAM:
{{Table}}
{{OBDth}}
{{OBDtrBK}}
{{OBDtr| 0x00 | bitset32 |FFC8C8| 00 60 06 00 | 0, 96, 6, 0 | damage-dealing bones
}}
{{OBDtr| 0x04 | float    |FFFFC8| 00 00 00 41 | 8.000000    | '''knockback''', the higher you set, the more is enemy pushed back when attack is sucessful }}
{{OBDtr| 0x08 | bitset32 |C8FFC8| 08 00 00 00 | 8, 0, 0, 0  | '''attack part flags'''; the following bits are possible:
:0x00 - nothing special, attack can be blocked by any stance of defender (crouch, stand) and deals no damage when blocked
:0x01 - attack is unblockable
:0x02 - attack is high (can be blocked only in normal stance, hits if enemy is crouching)
:0x04 - attack is low (can be blocked only in crouch stance, hits if enemy is in normal stance)
:0x08 - attack deals 1/2 damage when blocked + while blocking, it does not use blue flash but hit flash (konflash1 for this TRAM)
}}
{{OBDtr| 0x0C | int16    |C8FFFF| 14 00      | 20          | hit points }}
{{OBDtr| 0x0E | int16    |FFC8FF| 05 00      | 5          | start frame }}
{{OBDtr| 0x10 | int16    |FFC8FF| 0F 00      | 15          | stop frame }}
{{OBDtr| 0x12 | int16    |FFC800| 50 00      | 80          | '''hit animation''' (animtype ID of animation of opponent if attack was sucessful,for example 80 <nowiki>=</nowiki> hit_foot) }}
{{OBDtr| 0x14 | int16    |C800C8| 0A 00      | 10          | '''animation duration''' (in frames, if you input high values, it automatically changes any animtype ID of enemy to stagger animation}}
{{OBDtr| 0x16 | int16    |C800C8| 0A 00      | 10          | '''block stun''' (in frames) -input high values and this attack will get "has blockstun" label when used by MELE profile}}
{{OBDtr| 0x18 | int16    |C800C8| 00 00      | 0          | '''block stagger''' (in frames) - when used this move gets "has stagger" when used by MELE profile}}
{{OBDtr| 0x1A | int16    |C800C8| 00 00      | 0          | apparently garbage }}
{{OBDtr| 0x1C | int32    |C87C64| 00 00 00 00 | 0          | apparently garbage }}
|}
*1) Spam original TRAM (or whole combo). Spam it aganist group of enemies, spam it aganist single enemy (some harder, like Muro/Mukade). Look at the effect this spam has.
:*Is AI2 able to resist the spam? That does not mean it can block/dodge every attack. Only if you can do that move again and again and enemy can barely hit you, there is something wrong, especially aganist multiple enemies (Konoko's original kick special is nice example. If you have good timing, you can spam it so good that you are virtually undefeatable)
:*Are you (attacker) vulnerable while attacking? That means: if you attack with your move and enemy attacks you as well, then enemy gets hit but you recieve "blocked attack" blue flash. Notice when spamming specials. Sometimes you GET hit (some enemy attacks you) while doing special, but it indicates blue flash. Similar when getting up.
:*Which effect has sucessful attack on enemy? Does he only gets hit/is staggered/is knockdowned? Do you think it is good response for your attack? Are you satisfied with knockback? In combos, can you land next hit safely or enemy gets out of reach/can counterattack when you want to do next move?
::MY VISION for combos: Make combos so you can sucessfully counterattack only in pause between FIRST and SECOND move. next pauses (between third and fourth etc) should be cared that defender cannot counterattack, can only defend. This way, using combos will get more rewarding. Use bigger value in block stun or mild block stagger to achieve this effect.
::REASON: In original ONI if enemy catches you with combo, you can usually throw him and free yourself (with few exceptions) between 2nd and 3rd move. Then using combos is too risky and player reserves for hit n' run tactics, lariatfest or judo (throws a lot). Of course when combo looks like two fast punches then one slow, it has to be treated differently. It is up to you.
:*think about damage, block stagger. I prefer block stagger to block stun, it looks more dynamic. But choice is yours. Don't forget: even if TRAM will cause block stagger, there should be at least 8 frames of block stun written in. Block stagger should be adequate to the power of attack. Beware: some attack causes block stagger -> right after that we can throw. That would lead (logically) to abuse of that move. Specials/standing combos are usually good (use block stagger wisely), Be especially catious when modifying running/jumping moves (block stagger from running move -> immediate possibility of running throw).
:*You can also change start/stop frame if you think it will be for good.
:*my request: directional (lt/rt/fw/bk) punches can be blocked in any stance, kicks only in stand (0x02 attack part flag)
:*my request: last moves from combos should be blocked only high or low (depends on how animation looks), rest can be blocked in any stance
:*my request: running punches can be blocked in any stance, kicks in stand only (0x02 attack part flag)
::REASON: by these, we will uplift kicks a bit, evening fact that fists are usually faster.
*2) Then start modifying TRAM. Do attack part, then change vulnerability if attack has any. Basically, make TRAMs as much vulnerable as possible. Don't forget - throws are next step, so leave them out now.
:*invulnerability - Open your [[TRAM]] (dat entry), offset 0x3C. Check that it does NOT have 0x02. If yes, remove it so TRAM becomes vulnerable. If it had (specials mostly), do that screen capture process I wrote above. That way you will see how animation looks in each frame, it helps you with deciding. Now we want it to be invulnerable only in the middle. Go to 0x180, here you can set first frame when animation gets invulnerable. next to it is field for last frame. Adjust it so these specials have invulnerable part in the middle of execution, where "attacker is the king" but have at least 16 frames long windows (and I prefer longer ^_^) at the beginning/at the end of animation, so  attacker can be hurt. This should prevent spamming.
*3) Save, try again aganist group and aganist single enemy. Finetune, then move onto another TRAM. That is enough so far.
LET'S ROCK !!!
----
[http://loser.oni2.net/Anniversary/TRAM_mod-attacks_only-no_throws-Losers_part.rar HERE] is my part, hopefully without any bugs. In folder "just for better gameplay", there are evasion moves of Striker, Ninja and Muro, changed so they are invulnerable for about 10 frames at the beginning.
:REASON: AI2 is not human, it can react only when it collides with attack TRAM's extent (see [[TRAM]]). Due to that, AI2 dodges at the "last moment", so it is often hit at the beginning of the dodge. This modification helps AI2 not to be caught so easily. My vision of gameplay is IMO good (not great, but still better than too spam-able original) but side result of it is that AI2s try escape from combo in pause between first and second punch, because that is defender's LAST chance before he is forced to block (or eat ^_^) whole combo without possibility to break away. And without those invulnerable windows AI2 are quite often caught when they try to dodge out in that last chance. With them it is OK, sometimes they get hit, sometimes they manage to escape (and remember: Ninja's dodge is annoying enough even without those ^_-). Plus, it is Konoko who HAS those invulnerable beginnings even in original ONI! So player HAS this advantage. Now...AI2 has it as well ^_^.
:/REASON
--[[User:Loser|Loser]] 16:20, 9 August 2008 (CEST)
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ATTACKS COMPLETED
I apologize, ONIrules, it was request from Geyser. We are moving on throws. If you are interested, write here.
:--[[User:Loser|Loser]] 12:31, 8 September 2008 (CEST)
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==Plasma rifle projectile==
Check out Neo's talk page for new onisplit version. I think there's a good chance to create blue plasma impacts for your weapon now.
These are the data you might want to take a look at.
        <b style="color:blue"><Impact Name="w3_phr"></b>
            <Material Name="Default">
                <ImpactEffect>
                    <Component>Impact</Component>
                    <Modifier>Heavy</Modifier>
                    <Sound>
                        <Name />
                        <AICanHear>true</AICanHear>
                        <AISoundType>4</AISoundType>
                        <AISoundRadius>150</AISoundRadius>
                    </Sound>
                    <Particles>
                        <Particle>
                            <b style="color:blue"><Name>w3_phr_x01</Name></b>
                            <Orientation>3</Orientation>
                            <Location>1</Location>
                            <Offset>0.2</Offset>
                        </Particle>
                    </Particles>
                </ImpactEffect>
            </Material>
            <Material Name="Character">
                <ImpactEffect>
                    <Component>Impact</Component>
                    <Modifier>Any</Modifier>
                    <Sound>
                        <Name />
                        <AICanHear>true</AICanHear>
                        <AISoundType>4</AISoundType>
                        <AISoundRadius>150</AISoundRadius>
                    </Sound>
                    <Particles>
                        <Particle>
                            <b style="color:blue"><Name>w3_phr_x02</Name></b>
                            <Orientation>2</Orientation>
                            <Location>5</Location>
                        </Particle>
                    </Particles>
                </ImpactEffect>
            </Material>
        </Impact>
If you change that, you also have to change the name of the impact in the particle file. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 21:44, 15 September 2008 (CEST)
==Plasma rifle mesh==
:''The following talk originated [[AE:New_weapons|HERE]], when I pointed out: 1) that both the UNSC Assault Rifle and the Covenant Plasma Rifle were ripped from Halo; 2) that too much cameo kills the cameo, and more attention should be given to how well the new guns fit into Oni's universe; 3) that at the very least the Halo assets should be ripped ''consistently'', because a ''crappily textured'' stolen mesh is ''doubly'' lame. [[User:Geyser|geyser]] 02:49, 8 November 2008 (CET)
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To EdT's assault rifle, the model and the texture is ripped. How? I used Halo Map Tool and open Halo's file. I saw his texture for the assault rifle is exactly like the one on the game. Be a bit aware of it.
:;ONIrules
Of course "Ed's" assault rifle was a rip: scrambled UVs are typical of a ripping process that goes wrong. But that's not the only problem with that rifle... Let's imagine that there ''is'' a "skilled modeler" who can replicate Bungie's rifle without using ''any'' Halo content (screenshots NOT allowed). Let's imagine that guy does a very good job. What then?
#First, if he did a ''very'' good job, his stuff will look exactly as if he ripped the gun from Halo, even if he actually didn't.
#Second, the gun will be completely out of place in Oni: ripped or not, it's still a gun "taken" from Halo and "dumped" into Oni.
That's my main problem with your "new" content, ONIrules. You're "dumping" foreign stuff into Oni without taking the time to adapt it to Oni's universe.
:[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 02:49, 8 November 2008 (CET)
----
Note:Plasma Rifle is not rip. A skilled modeler made the model of it. One reason, is a ripped model is nearly about 2000 polygons. Mine is about 1000. Second reason the UV texture map. My texture does look like it's "UVed". Its just a flat image. I have the ripped texture and I can show it to you. Compare it.
{|border=1 cellspacing=0
|Not ripped textures (which I used)
|Ripped texture (I won't use it)
|-
|[[Image:Scarab000.png|128px]][[Image:Real000.png|128px]] 
|[[Image:Ripped.png|128px]]
|}
Look how Bungie UV mapped the weapon. Highly detailed. My texture is just simply plain. Plus my plasma rifle can't be mapped correctly with the ripped texture.
:;ONIrules
:In this case, NO, there was ''no'' "skilled modeler" - except from Bungie's Halo team. That 1000-triangle mesh of yours (I assume it is from [https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/837b929c0e1e600495ff232cd38210b4/halo-plasma-rifle HERE]?) was ''definitely'' ripped from Halo:CombatEvolved. However, the UVs were not ripped properly, or they were discarded after the mesh was ripped. So, indeed, that <<<GUN3Y>>> guy "had" to use a H:CE screenshot as a texture, projected sideways onto the mesh: that's "Scarab000.png". About "Real000.png", I'm not sure what the story of that texture is, but I assume you used [https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/1b95ba95fbde8c64fcace4d823343363/Textured-Plasma-Rifle THIS] (which, with all due respect to Birdman, looks like little more than an accurate Halo 2 rip), took a sideways screenshot of it and slapped that screenshot onto the (ripped) H:CE mesh you got from <<<GUN3Y>>>... which is bad, because the profiles of the two guns don't match very well, do they?
:Take a look at a model ripped from H:CE and you'll see it has the exact same 1010 triangles as the one you have imported into Oni (plus 19 extra triangles for the support of the glowing decal); I have no idea where you got the 2000-poly model from (Halo 2, maybe?). If you use a recent version of the ripping tools such as [http://web.archive.org/web/20200119112157/http://ghost.halomaps.org/bluestreak/gbxmodel/ THIS], the UVs of the H:CE gun will be exported properly and you'll have a model that is properly textured. What I don't understand at all is: since you're using ripped meshes anyway, why is it "better" ''not'' to use accurate UVs and textures as well? Such half-rips are even more of an offense to Bungie than rips, in my opinion, because the assets, although stolen, ultimately look like crap. You steal perfectly good stuff and then you make it look like crap: tell me, what's the point? ^_^
:Just to make things clear: I am ''not'' mad at you, especially if you have been under the (wrong) impression that the mesh you are using is not a ripped asset. I just don't understand why it makes sense to use Halo guns in Oni that are "crapified on purpose": it does less credit to the originals, IMO, so it's worse than "stealing accurately". I also don't understand what's the point of dumping lots of Halo content into Oni: it was nice to experiment with the importing pipeline for a while, OK, now how about something original and creative? if you want Halo stuff to make "cameo appearances" in Oni, maybe we should try and make those "cameos" look more natural? otherwise, you're just throwing stuff into Oni that doesn't belong there, and never will. Halo stuff is Halo stuff, and I agree it's cool - in Halo. But why is it cool to come across tons of Halo stuff in Oni? tell me...
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 02:49, 8 November 2008 (CET)
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