User talk:Ssg

ssg, please don't update all the OBD pages

to the format you chose. Allow for a "trial period".

Choose a few representative file types and do them.

Also, we have to agree of how we call the data types

(could you give me a list of those, e.g., HERE?)

Again, I ask you, please don't update everything at once.

You can edit individual articles whenever you like,

but something as systematic as a namespace-wide format change

have to be ground out a bit before it's applied at large scale.

If anything, you're flooding "Recent changes"

while we have our first spam to take care of.

(and you don't log in, naughty naughty).

Please hear me. And "be patient".

134.157.8.115 17:24, 24 November 2006 (CET)

Only the most recent entries are visible

(older ones have been commented out).

geyser 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)

Logging in

No time to log in, sorry. Text was written at home.

ssg

That's no excuse. You can type "~~~~" into your home-made text. Then log in, edit, and paste your stuff.

Every "~~~~" will be replaced with a correct signature (user name, hyperlink, time and date).

You may have to log in some time soon, since we have confirmed spam and I'm not too hot for manual reverts.

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

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After reading your little roman :p , I'd suggest the following things:

ssg

They're called "novels" in English. No one knows why.

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

That's it. Can I start now? Yes or yes? :p

ssg 12:42, 21 November 2006 (CET)

No. Since you're asking, you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

^^

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

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Templates

Template:Table

{|BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;" WIDTH={{{width|100%}}} ALIGN={{{align|center}}}

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

Why do we need the "|center" when the basic width is 100%?

ssg

To have it centered by default if one specifies a smaller width.

Maybe it should be "left" rather than "center". Minor detail.

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

Template:OBD_Table_Header

|- BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"
! WIDTH=5% | Offset || WIDTH=5% | Type || WIDTH=10% | Raw Hex || WIDTH=10% | Value || WIDTH=70% | Description

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No other table templates. It's not the idea of templates to replace everything.

When I look to the wiki code, I want to see the real code and not a bunch of links to a hundred of templates.

ssg

I disagree, as a wiki admin and as a "real coder" ^^

Templates are meant to spare on redundant typing,

and your tables have a lot of that, primarily :

• BGCOLOR="#..." for the Hex column
• ALIGN=right for the Meaning column

If you think having this "information" present in every line is OK,

think again. It's not this kind of "real code" a casual editor is after.

An extreme example of that is Template:HexRow.

Can you imagine what it would look like to have anything close

to the "real code" while editing such a table?

The HTML for such a table is heavy, the wiki-markup is lighter,

and the templated wiki-markup is much lighter.

(there's a template call per row, but it's one single template,

so actually it looks very much like ordinary table row syntax)

Now, the struct def tables are less extreme than that, sure,

but they still have a rather strict format for every row.

There's the custom color, there's the custom alignment,

and there may be systematic hyperlinks from the type column.

So I'd definitely template that row in the way I suggested.

Same for the other 2. Their job is to make the code editable.

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

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Misc

Type as a column

Okay. "Bytes" will be replaced.

ssg

We'll have to agree on the type names...

And on what page they'll link to.

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

hlines

Sorry. My mistake. They will be there.

ssg

What about Template:OBD TXT and Template:OBD TXT dec?

You didn't plan on uploading them (the text files) as wiki-media, did you? ^^

I'm thinking about making them into wiki-tables (subpages of their respective articles).

geyser 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)

Below follows

"below follows" is a semantic pleonasm? Why? I don't get it. *tilt*

ssg

Because we write from the top down. Because your tables are top-down lists.

The "below follows" row splits your tables in two halves.

Whatever "follows" will inevitably be "below" that row.

So "before"=="above", and "after"=="below".

Hence, "Below follows BLAH." is pleonastic.

"Below is BLAH." is not, and neither is "BLAH follows."

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

BSP

BSP = Binary Space Partition. Use google if you want to know more about it.

ssg

The problem is not with me not having taken the time to Google it up.

The problem is that the ABNA page deals with BSP trees,

but doesn't provide any info as for what a BSP tree actually is

(which is why I asked the question there, obviously).

The other problem is : if you know what a BSP tree is,

why those vague comments about the unknown fields?

Don't you already know everything about them?

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

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Images

Let me quote "Sledge Hammer" to comment your "problem(s)":

"That's a pish pot of nonsense." :p <== I hope you see the smiley.

So take it easy, even if it sounds a bit rough. :-)

ssg

Now that's the kind of argumentation I like ! ^^

Seriously, it's great that we're no longer afraid of offending each other.

However, that kind of half-serious subjectivity sorta kills a debate.

When you call something nonsense and then say you don't mean it,

what do you actually mean, if anything at all?

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

Heh, maybe I should answer you with another quote?

THISH ISH A LASHER BLASHTER, SHO YOU DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD, REBEL SHWINE

^^

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

Really, why don't you just mirror your stuff on ssg.oni2.net and link to it?

Is there any clear reason for not doing so?

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

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Besides, if you are really going to replace the images with a table,

you don't have to care about the image format (gif or png),

where they should be hosted and the presence of image templates.

ssg

That's somewhat more relevant, although not entirely in your favor ^^

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

I really feel like generating those ASCII tables. With HxD and PsPad.

("Willst Du mitmachen?" ^^ well, I sorta hoped you to)

In that respect, no, I don't really care about what you do.

I mean, images with odd names and formats don't hurt me directly.

True. Sometimes I just complain about anything and everything... ^^

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

png

Wow, I didn't know that the file size of the png's are so much smaller.

Nevertheless, I won't change the file format. I can't see any real need for that.

ssg

If you don't do it, guess who will ^^

I'll reupload them all as PNG.

Properly capitalized.

On geyser.oni2.net ^^

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

capitalization

I do never capitalize file names.

ssg

Principles, my friend, are yet another "pish pot of nonsense" ^^

A really big one.

Mediawiki capitalizes article names and that means filenames.

And you know it. Why do you upload a file called wpge_all.gif

when you know it will be shown as Wpge_all.gif

(and the actual name of the resource is WPge)?

You're forcing anyone who wants to work with those images

(e.g., split/rename them)

to live with that counter-intuitive mess.

Why?

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

Actually, Image:wpge_all.gif will still work,

but how many can you expect to figure that out?

Filenames for uploaded media have to be chosen carefully.

They have to be good names, if you like ^^.

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

image template

I've never seen a MediaWiki build with a non-white background...

geyser

I have. It was dark blue and didn't look bad.

ssg

Bad looks are not the problem there.

OG is not getting a dark blue background.

Over my dead body. ^^

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

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However, I'll keep the template, because:

• You can delete the table easily, if you don't like it.
• If (!) we host the images not any longer at wiki, we can add the new url easily to the template

ssg

Sounds good. You know what? I'll do the same with Template:OBDstructRow ^^

I can't believe you were a fierce opponent of "templates everywhere" only a few lines earlier...

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

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Bottom line

OK, feel free to do anything.

You are free to update all the tables in every article with your stuff.

You are also free to only do a few pages, sorta like a test for the format.

I may give a few pages a try with that Template:OBDstructRow of mine.

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)

The OBD-specific "OBD Table Header" template I'd make less general :

it's not like we'll never ever have another OBD-specific table template.

I suggested OBDstructHeader earlier...

geyser 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)