User talk:Iritscen: Difference between revisions

This is the place where EdT tells me what was wrong with that Griffin model I gave him. :-) What did you have to do to get it imported? (I know you already told me some of this, but let's state it here to lay the groundwork for the discussion.)

:--[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:59, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

Where do I start? :-)

::Interesting. Griffin was always standing up, but when I extracted Motoko from the files you posted, and brought her into Blender, she had her legs behind her head! (Get your mind out of the gutter!) All her limbs were pointing up above her head. Have you seen that happen? What does that indicate? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:::That's how the body looks like when the rotation of all the body parts is set to 0 on the x,y,z axis, also this is known as the default orientation. I believe that when a body part is selected and you type "n" a window appears showing the properties such as position, scale, rotation.  [[User:EdT|EdT]]

::::Okay, I thought that might be what zero rotation looks like. Now, are you saying that if a model imports like that, I shouldn't rotate the parts to more normal angles? Because I did that for Motoko. Did that cause a problem when you went to import her into Oni? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 22:06, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:::::Yes, so I just copied the head from your files and pasted into my original one. Also, the head's center point was off, so I had to correct it. [[User:EdT|EdT]]

:Make the changes.

:Export from Blender, Collada 1.4, options: triangles, disable physics, current scene. (I'm doing this from memory, I do not have access to Blender at work. will correct if necessary)

:Each body part has a center point, when exporting from Oni as Collada, these center points are at the correct location.  However, if new parts are added, then the center point must be set. To set the center point, position the cursor at the correct location on the body part, you will need to adjust it on all 3 axis. Then go to the menu Object: Transform: Set to cursor. (from memory)

:When replacing a body part, its important that its rotation matches the original part.  Also, the name must be exactly as the one replaced. Finally, the parent/child relationship must be re-established.

What went wrong with Griffin?

:It appears there is an additional object connected to the new head, which needs to be deleted.  The new head needs to be named correctly, it needs to be attached to the neck (parent/child). Finally the scale/rotation needs to match the previous head.

::I did in fact forget to establish a link to the new head (I realized after I had sent it to you). I will have to examine the issue of scale/rotation to make sure it is set properly in Griffin, I don't know that part of the program yet. I can probably figure that out. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:Perhaps, since I was working with the .dae version, and not the original Blender file, I was not able to export to Collada, it kept failing on me. Not sure why...

::Afraid you lost me here. DAE *is* Collada, but you said you couldn't export it to Collada.... --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:::All I know is that after importing your .dae file, I could not export it out as .dae. [[User:EdT|EdT]]

:::::Actually, the exporting error came from Blender itself, you can try it yourself.  Import the .dae file you sent me into Blender, now try to export that file as Collada. [[User:EdT|EdT]]

:What did I do? I used Cheetah3D.  I exported ONCCgriffin_generic as Collada, used FBXConverter to convert the file to .fbx.  I also converted your new model to .fbx.  I then copied the new griffin head to the griffin_generic fbx file, replaced the original head, set the correct rotation and parent/child relationship. Exported it out as .fbx, converted it to .dae using FBXConverter, then imported into Oni.  Also, regarding the triangles not being connected in my model, I did not Optimize the model in Cheetah3D before exporting.  

::When you say you did not optimize the model... was that supposed to connect the triangles? Does Cheetah otherwise disconnect the triangles? That would be very odd. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:::Optimize in Cheetah3D connects the triangles, and a couple of others things, I don't remember right now. [[User:EdT|EdT]]

:'''it's important that its rotation matches the original part''' Conceptually, this has to do with the "center point": you have to define not only a position for it, but also a rotation, and thinking of it as a "point" can be misleading. I have no idea how Blender handles this exactly, but I'd be surprised if it was working with ill-defined frames of reference. Therefore the "center point" mentioned by Ed ''must'' have an adjustable orientation property.

::Hmm, not sure I get this, but do I need to get it? As long as I alter polys and don't add new parts (which, yes, I did do for Griffin, but only to get his new head on the old body that was un-importable), do I need to worry about center points and rotations? As long as I don't change either of those? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:::That is correct [[User:EdT|EdT]]

:'''What went wrong with Griffin?''' If that's of any help, you can let ''me'' (or Neo) try and import him ''any time at all''. When in trouble, there's nothing wrong with asking those familiar with OniSplit and/or the COLLADA format to have a look. What kind of masochist are you? If you're scared of me, try and "use" Neo. He may not help you all the way out, but he won't bite, that's for sure.

:: *shrug* Ed just seemed to be the person to ask. We're using the same programs, and he had clear experience in importing models already. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

:Oh, and I'm also very confused about '''work on Griffin began so long ago that OniSplit had some model exporting issues, which are now a part of the model, so the model is not able to be imported as is''' ... No bug report at all? Just what "issues" could we be talking about? Are those ''assumptions'', maybe? Well?

::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 20:16, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

::The reason I didn't attempt a bug report was that I suspected the problems were extensive (wrong part names, for one thing, but probably more), and it was pointless to analyze the Griffin model I was working with as long as the head could be stuck on a new export of the original body. I knew I was going to do that so I never asked anyone to analyze the body I was working with (after all, only the head was changed and only the head mattered). Then, I *did* ask for a bug report from Ed by sending him my model, since I didn't know enough to find those bugs myself. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

::geyser, sorry my terminology is not correct.  What I called "center point" is the point where the body part will rotate around. I used "Rotation" as the orientation of the body part in 3D space.  When the rotation for all the body parts is 0 for x,y,z, then the pose of the model is the default orientation.  But since the pose in Blender is a standing pose, the rotation of the body parts is not 0,0,0. So if you replaced the head, with one that had a different rotation (even though it looked the same), the head will appear wrong in Oni.

::Here's the link to Iritscen's Griffin: http://www.sendspace.com/file/rl6zre  Also,  you can find my version of Griffin here: http://drop.io/EdT_OniFIles

::[[User:EdT|EdT]] 20:51, 2 June 2008 (CEST)

::P.S. to geyser: I did offer these files to you by saying you could ask Ed for them... so, you can't accuse me of withholding them from you since I only just made them available to anyone at all, and you were included in that offer. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 21:08, 2 June 2008 (CEST)