Difference between revisions of "AE:Trailer/Shapeshifting"

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showing off all available character classes (since it's anecdotal you can also show Motoko and whoever), preferably in some nice place(s), with an orbiting camera
 
showing off all available character classes (since it's anecdotal you can also show Motoko and whoever), preferably in some nice place(s), with an orbiting camera
  
:Is this what you had in mind? http://edt.oni2.net/AE_Files/AllChar.mov --[[User:EdT|EdT]] 02:42, 9 August 2008 (CEST)
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:Is this what you had in mind? http://iritscen.oni2.net/wiki/EdT-Shapeshifting.mov [Updated link. --Iritscen] --[[User:EdT|EdT]] 02:42, 9 August 2008 (CEST)
  
 
:It takes longer than I thought it would... We must take it down to 4 seconds or so by showing one ONCC for each ONCV: a red Fury with red hair, a blue one with a headband, etc. Another trick would be to show characters 3 by 3 (standing in a triangle, with their backs to the invisible player). Obviously, in both cases, you'd have to use scripts with chr_set_class (and in your case that means emulating the beta or the PC build). As yet another trick, random body sizes should be ruled out. Oh, and the location is rather dull, don't you think? There's not much for a scenery except for those (very) distant cars... That's a no-no. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 03:12, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
 
:It takes longer than I thought it would... We must take it down to 4 seconds or so by showing one ONCC for each ONCV: a red Fury with red hair, a blue one with a headband, etc. Another trick would be to show characters 3 by 3 (standing in a triangle, with their backs to the invisible player). Obviously, in both cases, you'd have to use scripts with chr_set_class (and in your case that means emulating the beta or the PC build). As yet another trick, random body sizes should be ruled out. Oh, and the location is rather dull, don't you think? There's not much for a scenery except for those (very) distant cars... That's a no-no. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 03:12, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
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::If you're courageous, you can also try the following, more in line with my previous suggestion. Set all the random body sizes to 1 (in the ONCC) and use 3 characters: one for females, another for Comguy-like skeletons, and another for the taller Striker-like characters. Then time the ONCC changes so that each of the 3 characters explores its range of ONCC in 4 seconds or so. The advantage of this is that you can actually play animations seamlessly on the characters (walking, taunting, whatever), and since their body size is continuous, it will ''really'' look like they're "shapeshifting": like one character morphing from one appearance into the other, not characters replacing each other. See if you're interested in having it look that way.
 
::If you're courageous, you can also try the following, more in line with my previous suggestion. Set all the random body sizes to 1 (in the ONCC) and use 3 characters: one for females, another for Comguy-like skeletons, and another for the taller Striker-like characters. Then time the ONCC changes so that each of the 3 characters explores its range of ONCC in 4 seconds or so. The advantage of this is that you can actually play animations seamlessly on the characters (walking, taunting, whatever), and since their body size is continuous, it will ''really'' look like they're "shapeshifting": like one character morphing from one appearance into the other, not characters replacing each other. See if you're interested in having it look that way.
 
:::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:03, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
 
:::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:03, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
::::No idea about the story behind the [http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/viewtopic.php?id=508 white (+ not reflective) BGI guys]. Better ask Ed (they are on his oni name space).
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::::No idea about the story behind the [http://oni.bungie.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=508 white (+ not reflective) BGI guys]. Better ask Ed (they are on his oni name space).
 
::::'''empty rectangular areas''' I can only think about the dream diver's last room then. You have to remind me in more detail if you want other rooms. ^_^
 
::::'''empty rectangular areas''' I can only think about the dream diver's last room then. You have to remind me in more detail if you want other rooms. ^_^
 
::::'''set all random body sizes to 1''' Done.
 
::::'''set all random body sizes to 1''' Done.

Latest revision as of 17:58, 2 August 2020

showing off all available character classes (since it's anecdotal you can also show Motoko and whoever), preferably in some nice place(s), with an orbiting camera

Is this what you had in mind? http://iritscen.oni2.net/wiki/EdT-Shapeshifting.mov [Updated link. --Iritscen] --EdT 02:42, 9 August 2008 (CEST)
It takes longer than I thought it would... We must take it down to 4 seconds or so by showing one ONCC for each ONCV: a red Fury with red hair, a blue one with a headband, etc. Another trick would be to show characters 3 by 3 (standing in a triangle, with their backs to the invisible player). Obviously, in both cases, you'd have to use scripts with chr_set_class (and in your case that means emulating the beta or the PC build). As yet another trick, random body sizes should be ruled out. Oh, and the location is rather dull, don't you think? There's not much for a scenery except for those (very) distant cars... That's a no-no. --geyser 03:12, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
Here's an alternative (5 seconds): (xvid compressed: 2 MB); (fraps raw: 56 MB)
If you tell where to find the white BGI guys I can record a new vid. Found it.
Is the location okay? Or should I place them into the glass hall? --Paradox-01 12:15, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
Yes, Dox, that's already much better: consider yourself in charge of this "hasta la victoria" ^_^ As for the locations, the lab is nicer than most levels because of the warm sunset colors, but there's much more to the world than the lab. The glass hall would probably have looked better, but there are a few nicer places in CHAPTER 07 . A FRIEND IN NEED, CHAPTER 11 . DREAM DIVER, etc; ideally, you'd avoid empty rectangular areas completely. Oh, and I don't know what's up with the white Spartans: who made them? they probably don't even have reflectivity? "my" BGI troops are black and that's it.
As for the ONCC lineup, your "random" succession actually looks just as good as systematic switching would (3 Strikers, then 3 Furies, etc), if not better, and the random character size is not much of a problem in that case. Maybe mix up the ONCCs even more, so that TCTF guys and "thugs" are not grouped together, but scattered among Strikers and Elites and Ninjas etc. I also recommend placing the 3 characters in a triangle and orbiting the empty space between them (just place the player below the ground, and use chr_nocollision and cm_height). If that's too much work (trigonometry...), you can use 4 characters arranged in a square.
If you're courageous, you can also try the following, more in line with my previous suggestion. Set all the random body sizes to 1 (in the ONCC) and use 3 characters: one for females, another for Comguy-like skeletons, and another for the taller Striker-like characters. Then time the ONCC changes so that each of the 3 characters explores its range of ONCC in 4 seconds or so. The advantage of this is that you can actually play animations seamlessly on the characters (walking, taunting, whatever), and since their body size is continuous, it will really look like they're "shapeshifting": like one character morphing from one appearance into the other, not characters replacing each other. See if you're interested in having it look that way.
geyser 16:03, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
No idea about the story behind the white (+ not reflective) BGI guys. Better ask Ed (they are on his oni name space).
empty rectangular areas I can only think about the dream diver's last room then. You have to remind me in more detail if you want other rooms. ^_^
set all random body sizes to 1 Done.
play animations seamlessly on the characters I haven't a detailed idea how they will be animated nor in what formation (triangle, sure?) they will be then but I will try to show you tomorrow new footage.
Paradox-01 19:12, 12 August 2008 (CEST)
"triangle, sure?" - not sure, see above. Square or line are easier to set up than an equilateral triangle, so stick with those if it looks nice already.
"if you want other rooms" - places with any environment particles or furniture close to where the characters are... + Omega Bunker + end of Chapter 7...
geyser 01:47, 13 August 2008 (CEST)
Sorry, it took longer than expected and omega bunker and power failed. The cam hits obstacles/walls because the animated characters needed a bigger cam radius. That means no particle and lab as location again. There I tried the triangle thing (cam rotates in centre) with a more randomized order. glasshall (fraps raw 64 MB)
Paradox-01 15:13, 14 August 2008 (CEST)
1) the URL is very wrong (but I was able to find the video anyway); 2) I don't have FRAPS installed right now (did you actually buy it, BTW?), so I can't view raw FRAPS footage; 3) I have no plans to install FRAPS right now, unless I decide it's worth buying, so maybe upload a compressed version, please, thanks. --geyser 16:43, 14 August 2008 (CEST)
Erm, and I don't buy the "camera hitting obstacles" excuse... maybe I don't know what the animated characters are about (for all I care combat stances or taunts were already OK, but maybe you've come up with something more awesome), but there are a lot of camera parameters you can tweak (cm_height and cm_canter_unarmed, but also gs_fov_set(whatever)). As for obstacles, you can usually shoot them down ^_^ --geyser 16:48, 14 August 2008 (CEST)
compressed vids -- scrap: omega; scrap: power room; simple and nice: glass hall
shooting the rooms My player soul tells me that it would look horrible wrong in the vid. Omega has a taste of it, and there still the not fading bullet cases... The movements begin nicely but ends asymmetric. So there was more than one reason to cancel this. There are still a lot other vids that need to be done, right? I don't wanted to waste time with experimenting.
About fraps: someone else bought it for me.. --Paradox-01 19:38, 14 August 2008 (CEST)
I can't view raw FRAPS footage. Hmm, I would really think there was a solution for that on the PC. Heck, I'm supposed to be able to play raw FRAPS on my Mac with free software (Perian + QT). It doesn't work only because of a bug in an underlying library. Oh well. I know 'dox was trying to help me out by providing extra high quality video, so I appreciate it. The link for the raw vid no longer works, btw, but I d/led the 3 compressed vids and I like glasshall the most, but the others are interesting too. The obstacles that flash past allow the characters to change "magically" while they are out of sight. That wasn't intentional on your part? Anyway, the quality is high enough to work with, so thanks. If only the footage I was working with last night was that good.
P.S.: What are you using in place of FRAPS, geyser? Taksi? --Iritscen 19:12, 14 August 2008 (CEST)
Yes, I've removed the raws. (Geyser and you can't use it, why keep it then?) --Paradox-01 19:38, 14 August 2008 (CEST)
Iritscen, the FRAPS codec is free, but also proprietary, so on PC you typically get it bundled with the FRAPS application. I don't know how your free Mac software is supposed to play it back. Yes, I use Taksi as a sensible substitute and no, I'm not quite happy with the results right now. The FRAPS recorder is very HDD-efficient, and for Taksi to perform nearly as well I need to find a good alternative codec first. I haven't yet tried to record FRAPS-like footage as a series of screenshots: the disk usage will be about the same (maybe even better than FRAPS once you ZIP the BMPs together or make a GIF), and lag will in theory be totally absent from the captured video, but if it lags too much, interactivity during the recording phase may be frustrating. I need to free up some disk space and do a test. --geyser 19:21, 16 August 2008 (CEST)
Well, there's no legal reason why some Program X can't read the file format of some Program Y, so I don't know why you are surprised that there's a solution for the Mac (we're the multimedia people, remember?). Apparently FRAPS ('FPS1' is the four-cc) is an mpeg implementation, so a Unix library called ffmpeg can (supposedly) play it, and so, of course, can programs that implement ffmpeg, like VLC and Perian (a QT plug-in). However, it seems that newer FRAPS videos catch a bug in ffmpeg, which may or may not be fixed soon. --Iritscen 23:03, 16 August 2008 (CEST)
"there's no legal reason why some Program X can't read the file format of some Program Y" - if Program Y is a commercial, closed-source project, the figuring out the detail of its format typically involves reverse-engineering, which is typically discouraged by the end-user license. As for ffmpeg being able to read FRAPS, I'm not sure what to think. --geyser 05:20, 19 August 2008 (CEST)
Dox, you shouldn't use an invisible midget in plain sight: use a few extra commands to place the (non-clipping) player character below the floor, and compensate by increasing the height of the camera target. Also, I would place the characters much closer to each other (not back-to-back-to-back, but almost: as if they were part of a tight circle of six) - then you can bring the camera closer to them and avoid some obstacles and walls (right now, even in the "glass hall" there's a console streaking across the foreground at some point, which is not good). Also, don't forget to adjust cm_canter_unarmed in parallel with cm_height and the FOV: you actually have total control of how the characters are framed and what gets in the way of the camera. In the case of the power room, for example, note that the four pillars are actually pairs of "stalactites" and "stalagmites", with large gaps in between, intermittently filled by the "power" particles. You can obviously take advantage of this by making the camera orbit higher, looking down at the characters through those gaps: that way, there will never be anything solid hiding the characters and the only thing in the foreground will be some cool-looking particles that will add to the "magical" effect. If you want to push this "magical" idea to the limit, you can place the shapeshifting characters in the gaps (maybe orbit about only one then), on the scanning bed in Kerr's lab, in Shinatama's chair, in place of Zombie Shinatama, etc... You can also give up the idea of orbiting around a static point, and instead do an orbiting close-up on a single character that shapeshifts as it runs down a corridor, performs a cutscene animation or a Trinity Kick or whatever. The possibilities are limitless. Back to the Omega Bunker, you've obviously picked the wrong center (half of the time you're showing Griffin's very dull office, and the walls are narrow so the camera indeed runs into them very easily) - obviously the characters need to be placed at the center of the bunker, with Shinatama's pod lowered (it can be rising during the take, to add some dynamics), but with the hologram particles active. The symmetry of the room suggests to use 4 characters rather than 3, and as for the animations, in this case it's better if the characters don't move around too much: taunts or "idle specials" (yawning) are fine; you can bring the camera much closer that way. You can, of course, make the shapeshifting characters travel in some direction, but then it's better if they stay grouped, e.g., if they're running together down a corridor/catwalk/bridge. --geyser 19:21, 16 August 2008 (CEST)
I actually enjoyed the "magic" shapeshifting in the Omega Vault as one set of characters goes behind something and another set appears on the other side (it's less interesting to see the characters abruptly change out in the open). It wouldn't take Paradox much more effort, if he starts from the script he used in the Vault, to time it to do that magic trick consistently. The timing's almost there already. --Iritscen 23:03, 16 August 2008 (CEST)
Paradox will agree that when the camera clips right through walls, the "magical" effect is as lame as lame gets. If the "somethings" are the consoles standing around the vault or the "squid" rails, you could have it look better, but timing the shapeshifting consistently with short occlusions is tricky, and longer occlusions are, again, lame. So, not that I don't like the working principle of Shinatama dolls, but I like the "scramble suit" effect better, thanks. And actually my favorite idea so far is to "scramble" Konoko with female ONCCs during a fast-moving, closely-filmed action sequence (like running up to a ledge and Matrix-jumping off it). --geyser 05:20, 19 August 2008 (CEST)
Or, (and this is easy to do) show Konoko hiding (just standing out of sight) in a room while a patrolling Striker approaches, and playing the checking-her-wrist-communicator animation as if she's activating something, then having her shift through a few female forms until arriving at a harmless one just as the Striker enters. Falling for the disguise, he ignores her (of course, behind the scenes in the script she has to be set to be on his team or neutral so this works). --Iritscen 22:07, 19 August 2008 (CEST)
I really like that shapeshifting idea as stealth element but that will focus the camera on the Striker and Konoko for too long. This wouldn't be our needed slideshow anymore. The idea of a single character which performs acrobatics goes into same direction. But in total you came up with enough useful (and complicated) ideas. ^_^ I'll post again when I'm done with this. --Paradox-01 23:37, 19 August 2008 (CEST)
Here's a new vid. --Paradox-01 20:54, 3 September 2008 (CEST)
Yay, I like it. Are you thinking that this one is better than the one in the trailer v5? I will replace that one with this one in the next draft if you agree. --Iritscen 23:21, 3 September 2008 (CEST)
Somehow I'm not fully convinced by vid's close cam (and last Konoko's details variate) but characters are animated there so let's give it a try. The problem will be the caption "more modding power" because characters stands in center now. --Paradox-01 16:50, 4 September 2008 (CEST)
"last Konoko's details variate". I don't think it will be noticeable in the trailer. "The problem will be the caption". I can deal with that; if nothing else, I will just move the shapeshifting clip to a point after the words have disappeared. --Iritscen 17:20, 4 September 2008 (CEST)