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AE talk:Trailer: Difference between revisions
→Intro and v6 draft: does no more rants mean no more idioms and such? if so, woot, the shitstorm was definitely worth it; k, rly rly kkthxbye now
(my final rant) |
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:::Looking at the situation realistically as an adult, don't you see, geyser, that when you can't do something yourself, but have to rely on others for help, you automatically cede some control over that project? That's how everything in this world works. When you give others tasks to do, even as their employer, there comes a time when you have to say, "You know what? We need to keep moving forward, so even if that employee's work is not up to my specs, I'm not them and I can't do their job because I have my own job. Their work is not going to wreck the company, and maybe others will think it's fine that way, so I have to let go of my personal investment in this and just approve it." I know I shouldn't have to tell you that, geyser, but I find myself wondering if you haven't learned that Fact Of Life yet; surely you must have, right? So, if you have... at what point are you going to shrug to yourself and say, "That's not perfect, and it's not how I would do it, but it's good enough"? There has to be a point where that happens or you will never be successful at managing people, either professionally or in the community. They will become fed up and quit. And I'm not suggesting here that you say the trailer draft is fine as-is, that's a wrap, we're done here. I'm referring to the individual parts of the whole; when will any of them be good enough for you? | :::Looking at the situation realistically as an adult, don't you see, geyser, that when you can't do something yourself, but have to rely on others for help, you automatically cede some control over that project? That's how everything in this world works. When you give others tasks to do, even as their employer, there comes a time when you have to say, "You know what? We need to keep moving forward, so even if that employee's work is not up to my specs, I'm not them and I can't do their job because I have my own job. Their work is not going to wreck the company, and maybe others will think it's fine that way, so I have to let go of my personal investment in this and just approve it." I know I shouldn't have to tell you that, geyser, but I find myself wondering if you haven't learned that Fact Of Life yet; surely you must have, right? So, if you have... at what point are you going to shrug to yourself and say, "That's not perfect, and it's not how I would do it, but it's good enough"? There has to be a point where that happens or you will never be successful at managing people, either professionally or in the community. They will become fed up and quit. And I'm not suggesting here that you say the trailer draft is fine as-is, that's a wrap, we're done here. I'm referring to the individual parts of the whole; when will any of them be good enough for you? | ||
:::I sometimes wonder why I have to be the one always saying this stuff; it reminds me of school, in every single grade, where we'd be in a group, and no one wanted to present our work, or be group leader. I didn't want to, either, but I felt obligated by a sense of duty to do so, and so, after an awkward silence, I would always mumble, "I guess I'll do it." And I ''never'' wanted to. And I ''still'' don't. But here I am again. The group was given an assignment: record footage for the trailer. Then, they were given unreasonably specific instructions as to how to do over what they did, but better this time. Eventually, what happened? They stopped helping. Sure, maybe they got busy IRL or with other Oni projects, but maybe they were demoralized by your endless direction. We won't know unless some of them speak up. I have absolutely zero desire to put anyone on the spot or to make them feel embarrassed or pulled into some kind of argument, but, seriously, I can't speak for them, I can only guess at what they were thinking when the awkward silence descended on the AE:Trailer page after a while. The silence said to me, "This is too demanding, I'm just gonna sit this one out now." Maybe I'm wrong, but as is the story of my | :::I sometimes wonder why I have to be the one always saying this stuff; it reminds me of school, in every single grade, where we'd be in a group, and no one wanted to present our work, or be group leader. I didn't want to, either, but I felt obligated by a sense of duty to do so, and so, after an awkward silence, I would always mumble, "I guess I'll do it." And I ''never'' wanted to. And I ''still'' don't. But here I am again. The group was given an assignment: record footage for the trailer. Then, they were given unreasonably specific instructions as to how to do over what they did, but better this time. Eventually, what happened? They stopped helping. Sure, maybe they got busy IRL or with other Oni projects, but maybe they were demoralized by your endless direction. We won't know unless some of them speak up. I have absolutely zero desire to put anyone on the spot or to make them feel embarrassed or pulled into some kind of argument, but, seriously, I can't speak for them, I can only guess at what they were thinking when the awkward silence descended on the AE:Trailer page after a while. The silence said to me, "This is too demanding, I'm just gonna sit this one out now." Maybe I'm wrong, but as is the story of my life, here I am, putting myself out there with the biggest risk because no one else spoke their mind back when you asked (what I thought was) too much of them. Is that unfair of me to say, maybe a little angry? Perhaps. I guess that, as an adult, I thought things would change for me. But they never do. | ||
:::I will force myself to close up here for now, but I want to answer a question that you may have on your mind, that goes something like, "Then why the crap did you volunteer to help me if you were going to make such an issue out of this?" The answer is, I volunteered to help you because I was ''already making my own trailer'' after reading Gumby's message on the forum conveying your desire for said trailer; I saw no specific direction so I followed my own. I had a format picked out, and music, and I had a short, succinct list of footage I wanted help recording, and I was ready to go to town and have fun. Then I found out you had laid out plans on the wiki already, and in the interests of cooperation I decided to scrap my personal vision for the trailer that excited me and go with yours instead. And I've really tried, geyser, really I have. I have tried to produce a trailer that you could approve of. In some ways, I can still make what I have work better for you, but in most ways I think we are looking at a chasm between us called "a difference in aesthetics", and we will never have a meeting of minds unless you acknowledge reality and say that something is "not perfect, but good enough". Until you can bring yourself to essentially "say uncle" to the facts of the universe, I can't keep working for you. It's just not going to be good for either one of us because we keep going around and around in circles, like Ouroboros consuming itself endlessly. I would have finished this trailer and gotten back to my other projects by now if we worked better together or if I did my own thing. As it is, I don't see any end to this project, and I *need* to see an end. Everyone needs to see an end to something when they have other things they need and want to do. | :::I will force myself to close up here for now, but I want to answer a question that you may have on your mind, that goes something like, "Then why the crap did you volunteer to help me if you were going to make such an issue out of this?" The answer is, I volunteered to help you because I was ''already making my own trailer'' after reading Gumby's message on the forum conveying your desire for said trailer; I saw no specific direction so I followed my own. I had a format picked out, and music, and I had a short, succinct list of footage I wanted help recording, and I was ready to go to town and have fun. Then I found out you had laid out plans on the wiki already, and in the interests of cooperation I decided to scrap my personal vision for the trailer that excited me and go with yours instead. And I've really tried, geyser, really I have. I have tried to produce a trailer that you could approve of. In some ways, I can still make what I have work better for you, but in most ways I think we are looking at a chasm between us called "a difference in aesthetics", and we will never have a meeting of minds unless you acknowledge reality and say that something is "not perfect, but good enough". Until you can bring yourself to essentially "say uncle" to the facts of the universe, I can't keep working for you. It's just not going to be good for either one of us because we keep going around and around in circles, like Ouroboros consuming itself endlessly. I would have finished this trailer and gotten back to my other projects by now if we worked better together or if I did my own thing. As it is, I don't see any end to this project, and I *need* to see an end. Everyone needs to see an end to something when they have other things they need and want to do. | ||
:::So, that's it, it's off my chest and in your court. I'm not quitting the project, and I'm not quitting the community. You can fire me from the project, you can act on that Fact Of Life and learn the words "good enough", or we can make our own separate trailers. That's not an ultimatum from me to you, it's a list of the only possible outcomes at this point. I apologize if this rant sounded breathlessly emotional, or if it sounded self-righteous, but there are key issues here that involve much more than just this little trailer and I always believe in clearing the air and addressing issues when it needs to be done. As I said, no more rants after this, ever. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:31, 24 September 2008 (CEST) | :::So, that's it, it's off my chest and in your court. I'm not quitting the project, and I'm not quitting the community. You can fire me from the project, you can act on that Fact Of Life and learn the words "good enough", or we can make our own separate trailers. That's not an ultimatum from me to you, it's a list of the only possible outcomes at this point. I apologize if this rant sounded breathlessly emotional, or if it sounded self-righteous, but there are key issues here that involve much more than just this little trailer and I always believe in clearing the air and addressing issues when it needs to be done. As I said, no more rants after this, ever. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:31, 24 September 2008 (CEST) | ||
::::I like your solemn promise. I don't like your analogy with real-life management. You're probably right when you say I suck as a manager and as an adult, even if we take into account conflicting RL priorities and community specifics; but that "sense of duty" ''you'' admitted to is not really the kind of creative motivation I can approve of in the case of this project: it leaves little room for ''actual'' "tender loving care". So. Obviously, there are no jobs and bosses involved here, but consider yourself fired if it makes you feel better: my apologies about the aesthetical chasm and about your wasted time. Now, two separate trailers are an option, but keep in mind that an official trailer can bury Oni just as it can bring it back to life; a half-baked trailer will decredibilize AE as a project, which is bad for the community. That's the main reason why I've been doing my very best and telling others to do so: because our self-esteem at this point in time, and the elaborately self-aware statement that is the trailer, will define whether there's anywhere for us to go from here at all. Advice. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 06:30, 24 September 2008 (CEST) | |||