Talk:BioCrisis: Difference between revisions

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care for another iteration? ^_^

Geyser

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 ::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 03:44, 4 October 2007 (CEST)
 :As you see: the translation wasn't the best but also no 1-to-1 because the changes are wanted by me.
+::;paradox-01
+:Yes, I noticed that, but I thought it was best to isolate the added value from the actual translation.
+:Since you ''tried'' to do an exact translation in most cases, I thought the extras were a bit confusing.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
 :And the hasty points, ok, lets see:
-:*'''We know from at least four sources (console reports, Fuji article, airport poster and Hasegawa's diary) that the smog (smog, really??? geyser)'''
+;We know from at least four sources (console reports, Fuji article, airport poster and Hasegawa's diary) that the smog (smog, really??? ''geyser'')
-::Smog. Yes... We could say polluted air but that's what is smog also. In Oni's case most of the population is concentrated in cities , and that is where smog get [[wikipedia:Smog#Health_effects|''heavy'' and poisonous]]. Now I wonder if the quarantine zones aren't cleaner. ^_^
+:Smog. Yes... We could say polluted air but that's what smog is, too. In Oni's case most of the population is concentrated in cities, and that is where smog gets [[wikipedia:Smog#Health_effects|''heavy'' and poisonous]]. Now I wonder if the quarantine zones aren't cleaner. ^_^
-:*'''According to an ACC report "Class 4 airborne toxins" can arise during an overload (really??? [[User:Geyser|geyser]])'''
+::;paradox-01
-::Nice... I mixed facts with own interpretation. Seems that I wrote this without having a second look onto the material.
+:When I read "smog", I inevitably think of Victorian London. Or Mexico. Or Beijing. Fumes blocking the daylight.
-::Mai blowed up the ACC most probably by overloading them. And then I remembered "something" in the ACC report about toxics which will arise by an "accident or something"...
+:It is certainly tempting to see smog in Oni, but I'd make a difference between ''clean'' air and ''clear'' air.
-::In fact (should mean: in a not re-interpreted storyline like "True Number Zero") Muro's men sabotaged the ACC to spread out "Class 4 airbore toxins" after the Sturmanderung puls was send.
+:The city air in Oni is definitely not ''clean'', at least not all the time, and the air's [[wikipedia:Toxicity|toxicity]] is an issue.
-::Yea, I think that's it what happened. So, please, don't hit me or "something". ;-)
+:It is, however, remarkably ''clear'', even though late autumn is not the best period to scan a modern city for smog.
-:*'''Of course "we don't know that for sure", but with the upcoming global catastrophe (who can see it coming??? geyser)'''
+:Note the presence of ''solar panels'' (of course they might make as little plotwise sense as other furniture).
-::To be more specific: On earth almost all ACCs was blown up and the people should know by them-self what this will mean for their future. Plus, the the toxic will need some time to spread out and to take visible effect like diseases.
+:There would be no solar panels on the rooftops or in {{C3}} in a smoggy city. IMO.
-:* '''converting the survivors into genetically clean and better humans. (übermensch, eh??? geyser)'''
+:I think the WCG went to some radical improvements, e.g., made all personal vehicles electric.
-::The accent lies on "survivors". Spontaneous, let me try a more or less good analogy. Before the Industrial Revolution took place farmer thrash the corn by hand and then it came to separation. "Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen." Thrown in the air, the wind blew the hulls away. In Oni we've a "Sturm"...
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
-::Now we could imagine what people are going to think. (And nobody know whether he's the corn or the hulls.)
+;According to an ACC report, "Class 4 airborne toxins" can arise during an overload (really??? ''geyser'')
-::So, I think that the Syndicate wouldn't admit the Daodan's true potential - in genetic aspect.
+:Nice... I mixed facts with my own interpretation. Seems that I wrote this without having a second look onto the material.
-::And even if the survivor will become "Übermenschen". What's worth when their mind get altered/corrupted?
+:Mai "blew the processors" by "overloading the generators". And then I remembered "something" in the ACC report about toxins which will arise by an "accident or something"...
-:*'''how many [Daodan] do you think they have??? and how can they "distribute" matching clones to total strangers???'''
+:In fact (i.e., in a not re-interpreted storyline like [[Oni2:Truth Number Zero|Truth Number Zero]]) [[Muro]]'s men sabotaged the [[ACC]]s so that they'd spread out "Class 4 airborne toxins" after the [[Sturmanderung]] pulse was sent.
-::At least enough for them-self. Let's say a half million (distributed all over the world). If they are willing to distribute, "Beta Daodan" comes in my mind again.
+:Yeah, I think that's what happened. So, please, don't hit me or "something". ;-)
-::My idea of the daodan is that it has an "genetic concept" for self-improving and don't depend on "minor" differences in the DNA. (At least it was developed for a human DNA.)
+::;paradox-01
-:*'''wow, are you reading Wikipedia upside down???'''
+:I'm not hitting you or anything, but you're ''meticulous'', so I'm naturally nitpicking at you.
-::Maybe I just picked the right ones - and yes: the German wiki is smaller. Take a look [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Weltordnung#USA HERE]
+:You can expect me to systematically "attack" any "approximate" reference to Oni's material ^_^
+:I will also "attack" internal inconsistencies of your own story, but we're not there yet ^_^
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+:The meaning of both informative consoles in {{C7}} starts and stops with Mai's interpretations.
+:She read about the [[inversion process]], and ''thought'' that's what Sturmanderung was about.
+:She also read the ACCs were being tested tier by tier, and used that knowledge to blow them up.
+:Her intuition about Sturmanderung is "confirmed" by Muro's lines during their final encounter.
+:Still, ''any'' further assumptions are speculations, be it [[Oni2:Truth Number Zero|Truth Number Zero]] or [[Oni2:Restless_Souls|your story]].
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+;Of course "we don't know that for sure", but with the upcoming global catastrophe (who can see it coming??? ''geyser'')
+:To be more specific: almost every ACC on Earth was blown up and the people should know by themselves what this will mean for their future.
+:Additionally, the toxins will need some time to spread out and to take visible effect like diseases.
+::;paradox-01
+:So you mean there's a delay between "die Sprengung der Prozessoren" and "the dead and the dying"?
+:That would explain why your post-Oni world is free of panic, riots, exodes, revolutions etc ^_^
+:In short, your version is definitely not "Apocalypse Now". Everyone has lots of time to spare.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+:Note, however, that the explosions are likely to vaporize and spread some toxins right away.
+:The [[ACC]]s produce clean air and ''very concentrated toxic waste'' (vats in {{C8}})
+:Depending on the magnitude of the explosion, that waste may be spilled over the area normally covered by the ACC.
+:As for the accumulation of "regular" toxins ''by lack'' of ACCs, it could be the matter of days or even hours IMO.
+:If the toxins are as virulent as what allegedly hit Jamie, the onset of disease is fast, too.
+:So I don't think that the time scales will be "politically manageable" by the WCG or anyone...
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+;converting the survivors into genetically clean and better humans. (übermensch, eh??? ''geyser'')
+:The accent here is on "survivors". Let me try a more or less fitting (spontaneous) analogy.
+:Before the Industrial Revolution, farmers used to thrash the corn by hand and then they had to separate the corn from the hulls.
+:"Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen." When thrown in the air, the hulls were blown away by the wind. In Oni we have a "Sturm"...
+:Now we could imagine what people are going to think. Nobody knows whether he's the corn or the hulls.
+:(''logical link???'') So, I think that the Syndicate wouldn't admit the Daodan's true potential - genetically speaking.
+:(''logical link???'') And even if the survivors will become "Übermenschen". What is it worth if their minds are altered/corrupted?
+::;paradox-01
+:My "übermensch" comment was a little gratuitous; I was ranting on the overused neonazi formalism.
+:I didn't object to anything in particular, which is probably why your response is very messy, too.
+:[[Daodan]] is most definitely "boundless", and potentially superhuman (unless you ''make up'' bounds).
+:In that respect, ''anti-eugenism propaganda'' would make sense, regardless of Nietzsche and Hitler.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+:The Syndicate would indeed have less trouble concealing the Daodan's potential than Hasegawa had.
+:After all, the pre-Muro Syndicate actually needed (or thought they needed) a Universal Soldier.
+:The people in the aftermath just "don't wanna die", so what ''they'' need is a resilience patch.
+:''If'' there is no anti-Daodan propaganda, you ''might'' sell the Daodan as "just" a resilience patch.
+:However, the motivation and feasibility of "Daodan to the people" is not obvious.
+:And it would take only a few serious opponents to spoil the appeal of the Daodan.
+:The alienation issue complements the "sorta eugenism" and makes the Daodan taboo.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+:"Die Spreu vom Weizen trennen" seems to be a German-only analogy: I've never heard of it.
+:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's mostly about "natural selection": survival at any cost.
+:If the survivors let their "leaders" decide who'll be saved, they're giving their lives away.
+:Some of them might play that Survivor game and try their best to be "selected" for salvation.
+:Others will draw their strength from the fact that they ''don't need miracles'' to stay alive.
+:Your reaction up there is not too structured, but I guess we're talking of the same things.
+:Distributing the Daodan in any form will ''complicate'' the issue of survival, ''not'' solve it.
+:There's the fear of alienation, and there's the horror of "putting one's soul up for sale".
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+;how many [Daodan] do you think they have??? and how can they "distribute" matching clones to total strangers???
+:At least enough for themselves. Let's say half a million (distributed all over the world). If they are willing to distribute, "Beta Daodan" comes to mind again.
+:My idea of the Daodan is that it has a "genetic concept" for self-improvement and doesn't depend on "minor" differences in the DNA. (At least it was developed for a human DNA.)
+::;paradox-01
+:Hm, "the [[Chrysalis]] is ''the'' hyperevolved clone of ''its'' host body". Generic, really?
+:The [[Prime]] Chrysalises were "based on the genetic codes of [Mai] and [Muro]": ''generic''?
+:A "generic" Daodan would be nice, but it would be a ''major improvement'' over the Primes.
+:But then you'd want that generic thing to be somehow ''inferior'' to the Primes (Beta). Äh?
+:All in all, you're saying that the Syndicate has completely instrumentalized the Daodan.
+:That's not too likely, given that every symbiote is basically unique and unpredictable.
+:It's also a regrettable waste of a perfectly good "autoevolutionary machine" concept.
+:The Daodan is nice if it's uncontrollable and a bit mystical (trap; Pandora's box).
+:You're ''devaluating'' it if you make it into an instrumental, versatile gadget. IMO.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+:As far as I can tell, the development cycle of (Prime) Chrysalises is as follows.
+:Stem cells from the host are exposed to a hyperevolution factor (details unknown).
+:This hyperevolved clone is grown over a few days/weeks/months, closely monitored.
+:The "Chrysalis" (basically, a small tumor) is then implanted back into the host.
+:Then the tumor assimilates and upgrades the genetically compatible host, in-place.
+:A possible improvement could be that the clone is grown without human monitoring.
+:Such a "Daodan kit" (syringe + "lab on a chip") would still be high-tech, though.
+:You could give away a few of those to rich survivors (Muro's supposed ultimatum).
+:But it's not something that can be mass-produced and distributed to the public IMO.
+::(it also depends a lot on ''what the factor of hyperevolution is''... is it rare?)
+:Of course, this is totally off-topic here... We could move that to [[Talk:Daodan]].
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+;wow, are you reading Wikipedia upside down???
+:Maybe I just picked the right ones - and yes: the German wiki is smaller. Take a look [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Weltordnung#USA HERE]
+::;paradox-01
+:Erm. [[Pax Americana]] is not really a conspiracy theory to me (then again, I'm a certified conspiracy theorist, so never mind ''me'').
+:The WCG is a logical continuation of Pax Americana, so I'd suggest you get familiar with it, rather than go for politically correct substitutes.
+:Of course the German wikipedia is smaller, but you had me fearing that its articles were ''more biased'' as well (e.g., anti-US).
+:That is not the case, because you can find the ''very same'' info about Pax Americana on the English Wikipedia.
+:Again, I don't think of Pax Americana as a conspiracy theory. Just a not-too-comfortable geopolitical truth.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
 ==Bio Crisis==
 ;Gegenwart
@@ Line 105: / Line 195: @@
 :'''META is an original concept of a totalitarian state established shortly after 12/3.'''
 ::''If no diplomatic solution can be found, then the WCG and the Syndicate will try to tear each other into pieces.''
-:But if a diplomatic solution can be found, then I had called it META. This was an idea before RS became considered as a big "gamebook". Well, the possibility of fusioned Syndicate and WCG have still a place in my thoughts. But more important to say: the official election was planed to be a fake. They declare WCG war but work secretly together. The people should believe "democracy is still alive".
+:But if a diplomatic solution can be found, then I had called it META. This was an idea before RS came to be considered as a big "gamebook". Well, the possibility of fusioned Syndicate and WCG have still a place in my thoughts. But more important to say: the official election was planned to be a fake. They declare WCG war but work secretly together. The people should believe "democracy is still alive".
 ::[[User:Paradox-01|Paradox-01]] 17:11, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
+:This part of the discussion is obviously off-topic in [[BioCrisis]], but I'm not sure where we should move it.
+:Same goes for some of the points you responded to up there (BTW, rather create new sections down here).
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+;the official election was planned to be a fake. They declare war on the WCG but work secretly together. The people should believe "democracy is still alive".
+:Democracy is dead. In Oni's world there's as much "freedom" and "democracy" as in today's [[Singapore]]
+::(and it's best not to think of what is called "freedom" and "democracy" in today's Europe and US ;) )
+:[[WCG]] citizens know they're owned, and they know why they're here. Freedom = acknowledged necessity.
+:Oni's society is a homeostasis that works the way it works and looks like it can keep working that way forever.
+:There is, however, no illusion of democracy. None. Who in Singapore believes "democracy is still alive"?
+:Same thing here. The WCG is a Big Brother state. Single-party. A ''blatantly'' dictatorial regime. Is it not?
+:Now take out almost all the iron lungs. Leave only a few cities capable of sustaining life.
+:Unprecedented mortality, pollution, migration flows, and rationing of vital resources.
+:Hard to think of a less appropriate time to organize (or fake) an electoral campaign...
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
+:"But if a diplomatic solution can be found, then I had called it META." ''You'' called it META? ;)
+::(maybe you meant "But if a diplomatic solution can be found, then I ''would'' call it META"?)
+:I myself had no clear idea of [[Oni2:META|META]]'s genesis when I came up with the concept (it was just "there").
+:Right now, I see it as a series of radical revolutions. Dramatically violent. As in "heads fly".
+:Not only is there a worldwide ecological disaster, but ''the bioterrorists are still there''.
+:That makes martial law unavoidable IMO. The WCG can no longer rely on moral authority alone.
+:Even if there are moderate factions on either side, can they really stop Muro's Strikers?
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:11, 10 October 2007 (CEST)