AE talk:Anniversary Edition Tools

I'm in the process of revising the UI and the code for AETools. I will use this page to keep track of my ideas and one day it will be the basis for the AETools page.

Since Onisplit continues to add more features in extracting and creating .oni files, I wanted a simple way of accessing those features. This will require re-writing the Applescript code and a different UI. I had a version that used tabs to switch between the process, but somehow, the UI broke under Leopard and I have not found a work around. So for now, It will be a single window that has all the features visible.

Its hard to develop a balance of info and features in a UI. In some ways, the UI is cluttered, but I wanted to provide the end user as much info as possible so they use can the tool right away.

I'll be adding detailed info to the sections below, explaining the various features.

EdT 02:42, 15 May 2008 (CEST)

I think we shouldn't take that broken-tab thing lying down, EdT. It's probably necessary to use tabs in the final product to avoid exploding the user's head when they see all the options. Whenever you feel like it's ready enough for me to try out (no rush), I will see what I can do about getting the tabs to work.

--Iritscen 17:00, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

I've been looking around, but can't find the fix I need. But I'll worry about the tab feature later. If you have any other ideas or features that can be added or improve AE Tools, please let me know

EdT 18:38, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Finally got a chance to use your latest build of AE Tools, and I have to say, the GUI works well even without tabs. It fits on a 1024x768 screen, so I am happy with it as is. You should be aware of a couple other things, however, which you may or may not care about yet, but which eventually will matter:

1. The build is still for PPC.
2. There's no info about you in the About box. Come on, don't be shy! :-)
3. Other specific comments are below.

--Iritscen 19:32, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

Install

This is great as-is. If this goes under its own tab, "Installation", it's perfect.

--Iritscen 17:00, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Extract

There's a bit of confusing language here, and it actually goes back to how OniSplit uses the word "extract" vs. "export". I mean, technically, extracting is like when OniSplit splits .dat/.raw into .oni files. Exporting (notice the "port" part) is when you alter the format of a file when saving it with another name, so like when OniSplit takes an ONCC.oni file and saves it as .dae. I know OniSplit doesn't use the terms that way, but I think we should use our own wording here if it makes things more user-friendly.

Also, using "export" allows us to use the antonym "import" for the flip-side (see below). "Intract" is not a word. :-)

--Iritscen 17:00, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Good point about Extract/Export. I can change that.

EdT 18:38, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

And it's fixed. So thanks. Now, a couple minor points: wherever it says "ONCC", we really mean "ONCC/TRBS", right? Leaving out any mention of TRBS could be confusing. --Iritscen 19:32, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

ONCC export uses the body set TRBS together with a specific set of textures (TRMA) and (as an option) the character's animation set (TRAC), so that the exported character is visually more complete. If you export from TRBS, there will be no textures and the animation will be a default one. As for import, -create:trbs has the most options right now, but whole ONCCs can also be generated now, from XML. --geyser 16:42, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Yes, you're right, of course. Are you saying that we shouldn't mention TRBS so as not to encourage the user to export just the TRBS and lose that other information from the set of files under the ONCC? --Iritscen 18:34, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Create

"Create" is a nice word, but I'm afraid it's too vague. If we use "Import" here and "Export" above, the user will quickly see that importing means bringing a new/altered file back into Oni, and exporting is taking the original data out of Oni.

P.S.: The "Did you make a backup of the original?" reminder is a nice touch. But let me ask you, is that "Create" button (or "Import", as I recommend) going to put the .oni file into a levelx_Final folder, or just put it in a directory for the user to then move it over himself? Also, at the cel-shaded option.

--Iritscen 17:00, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Will change to Import. The default install is level0_Final folder, but you have the option to put it in another level's folder. I found it worked better for me, import the files to a level and then immediately I can Rebuild that level, without leaving AE Tools. Also, I know you put in a lot of work to code the part about making a backup of the original file before replacing it. But I was having problems with it, OniSplit automatically prepends the filename with TXMP, ONCC, etc, if it is not in the source file's name. However, the Applescript code only knows the actually source file's name, so at times, I would get an error because of it. So the automatic backup of original files is out for now, that's why I have the warning message.

EdT 18:38, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

That's fine, don't worry about the backup feature for now. Once you pass on whatever you can do on your end, I might be able to make that feature smarter/more reliable and put it back in. If I can't make it really dependable, I'll just leave it out, though, because it's worse to have an unreliable backup than no backup at all. At least you know where you stand when there's never any backup being made, as opposed to not knowing if the backup worked.

--Iritscen 19:36, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

The two pop-up menus that list levels are incongruous. In other words, the top one just has the level folder names (level1_Final, etc.) and the bottom one just has level names. One could argue that both menus need both pieces of info for each level (so we don't have to think, "Hmm, what Chapter in Oni is represented by level12_Final?"). Can you make that language consistent in the two pop-up menus? Something like "[Name of level] ([name of level folder])".

Also, Grammar Nazi says: "Select the level you want to install the .oni file." is improper English. There's an "in" missing there, as in "Select the level in which you want to install the .oni file." --Iritscen 19:32, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

Keep in mind that we're no longer bound by the original level names or numbers. Users should be allowed to build "plugins" or generate, e.g., level5_Final, as a heavily modded level1_Final, etc. --geyser 16:42, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Are you saying that AE Tools should be allowing us to import into level plug-ins in addition to importing into the pre-existing levels? We couldn't do that, of course, without the folder of .oni files that went into that plug-in in the first place, so that would have to be right next to the plug-in in the GDF so we could add to it and recompile it. But maybe that's not what you're saying. Not sure I'm clear on what you're getting at, particularly why we would make a new level5_Final using level1_Final. Huh? --Iritscen 18:34, 5 June 2008 (CEST)

Other

Instead of having a dialog box pop up with a message, any message appears here.

For the Power user... But on the other hand, a Power User would use the Terminal instead of AE Tools. :-)

I guess these would have to appear in a universal bottom area of the Tools window, rather than being under any particular tab, right?

--Iritscen 19:32, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

1. The Power User thing doesn't make any sense unless the user can see/specify the current folder.
   Also, autocompletion is a major feature of the actual command line. Can you really emulate that?
2. The command line syntax of OniSplit is likely to change (for the better) in version 1.0, so be warned.

geyser 20:27, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

I have an Applescript command set cmd_string_create to "cd " & (path_to_dir) & "ExtractedGameData; mono onisplit.exe" then when the user enter a command such as -create:trbs ../GameDataFolder/Level0_Final -normals -cel ONCCTest.dae it will add it to the variable cmd_string_create, then run the script. Thanks for the heads-up on the upcoming change in the OniSplit syntax.

EdT 22:05, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

On a completely different note, isn't the OniSplit page becoming messy beyond any cleanup template?

geyser 20:27, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Yeah, good catch, geyser, if the user doesn't know what directory they're in, they don't know how to type out any file paths. The Tools window would have to support commands like "cd" and "ls" in order to help the user navigate. So maybe we're better off not opening that can of worms.

Thanks for the heads-up with OniSplit, too. If he's going to revise his commands, I hope that Neo sees my note here about terminology (how to use "export" vs. "extract"). Ultimately, even if the commands change completely, most of our work will still hold up, and a little last-minute fix will bring us in line with OniSplit 1.0. But it wouldn't hurt for the AE Tools to check for OniSplit's version before trying to work with it, to prevent a problem we know will eventually happen when someone uses an old version of the Tools with a new version of OniSplit.

Also, I don't know if OniSplit is messy. It does look like two different pages collided at high speed. :-> But not messy. Seriously, though, it's helpful to have the actual commands in code-style, so I don't know how EdT could have avoided it looking like that.

--Iritscen 20:55, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Hey, if anyone wants to fix the appearance of OniSplit page, go ahead. :-)

EdT 22:05, 28 May 2008 (CEST)

Just wanted to say that I like the message center. I thought that using dialog boxes would be better until I saw it in action; now I prefer the message center. It's clean and simple, and you can always look there for the last message from AE Tools. --Iritscen 19:32, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

Itritscen: Thanks for the comments, I will implement them. Also, once you move, the first priority is for you to find a free wifi hotspot! BTW, are you going to WWDC?

EdT 21:45, 3 June 2008 (CEST)

Well, once I move, I'll have bona fide Internet access. It's the next month that things are going to get hairy. The most I can hope for is checking the wiki/email by iPod touch once in a while. Finding hotspots with the laptop is an ordeal but the iPod is nice and portable. Because it's much slower to type on the iPod, I'll be probably be sending really terse messages for the next month. No more rambling emails/PMs/wiki posts :-)

As far as WWDC goes... man, I wish I could go. But no, not this year, anyway. --Iritscen 23:07, 3 June 2008 (CEST)