AE talk:BGI: Difference between revisions

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 Use different parts from MC to enhance Fury, Elite, Strikers, etc, all are dressed in black.  Perhaps giving all the BGI members the "white eyes".
-http://edt.oni2.net/bgi/bgi_troops1.jpg
+[[Image:BGI troops1.jpg]]
 :[[User:EdT|EdT]] 18:10, 19 November 2008 (CET)
 :Wow, those look great! The one on the right is probably one of the best candidates. Any way you could change his eye color to blue? (I just wanna see what it looks like, and for more seperation from Elites. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 18:21, 19 November 2008 (CET)
-http://gumby.oni2.net/Screenshots/bgi_troops.jpg
+[[Image:BGI troops.jpg]]
 Like that :P [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 01:10, 20 November 2008 (CET)
 Like this?
-http://edt.oni2.net/bgi/bgi_troop.jpg
+[[Image:BGI troop.jpg]]
 The receptionist fights like a fury and the Thug fights like a ninja, both are working undercover.
@@ Line 47: / Line 48: @@
 :::"Akane" - I like her look a lot, but I'm not sure how well it will go with what little plans we have. I am still nervous about putting fury type enemies in. If you can give her something that makes her unique\interesting (different than normal Furies), it would improve her chances. I can't promise anything though.
 :::"Jubei + Akane" - There aren't enough encounters for them to "always" be seen together, unless "always" is only one level :). And backstory won't been seen at all in the actual game. They might work as some sort of a boss, I guess, if Jubei was given a "heavier" style, for a more exciting fight.
-:::Striker - Needs a different upper half completely. I would recommend adding Mukade style armour texturing on the torso, and doing something to the helmet to make it less Strikeresque. Maybe this - http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-iron-man-helmet-model/424900 :D (Yes, "poor mans modding, but that helmet is awesome :) )
+:::Striker - Needs a different upper half completely. I would recommend adding Mukade style armour texturing on the torso, and doing something to the helmet to make it less Strikeresque. Maybe this - <nowiki>https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-iron-man-helmet-model/424900</nowiki> (dead link) :D (Yes, "poor mans modding, but that helmet is awesome :) )
 :::In general - "Less like Syndicate clones and more like Mukade" (paraphrased by geyser).
 :::Giving some of the black parts reflectivity might look nice.
@@ Line 62: / Line 63: @@
 ::::::If any of this seems to require original modeling, and you want help, just let me know. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 14:38, 21 November 2008 (CET)
 ::::::P.S.: As Gumby said, no hurry, really. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 16:22, 21 November 2008 (CET)
+::::::To add a visor to the Tanker will require 3D work, I'll leave that to you Iritscen.  Perhaps we can use the particles from Onirules' plasma rifle in a different weapon for the Mercenary.
+Jubei and Akane
+[[Image:Jubei and Akane.jpg]]
+:Jubei's eyepatch seems like a step backwards :) If you really want him to cover an eye, give him an HUD thing :)
+:I like Akane's mask, but it looks like should extend down onto her neck (and wrap around to the back of her neck).
+:Sorry, not too much nice to say about this one. Their eyes look nice, if thats any consolation. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 05:26, 22 November 2008 (CET)
+:: Obviously you haven't hear of Yagyuu Jubei :) [[User:EdT|EdT]]
+[[Image:Jubei.jpg]]
+:::No, I haven't. :D. Either way, the eye patch seems a little silly to me. :)
+:::Is there any way you could modernize the patch? (Still keeping the refernce, just making it look at home in Oni) [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 09:30, 22 November 2008 (CET)
+Just to let you know, the latest version of your plugin screws up RF\DSK's trails. I don't know why ATM, I need to look inside your plugin. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 08:57, 24 November 2008 (CET)
+: BGI Striker
+:[[Image:BGI Striker.jpg]]
+:I took a look at the Iron Man helmet, it has 248,800 polygons! Don't think Oni can handle that! :)  My plugin only has ONCC, TRBS, TRMA, TXMP, ONWC and M3GM files, how could they mess up your RF\DSK trails?  RF\DSK works fine in my game. [[User:EdT|EdT]] 06:03, 25 November 2008 (CET)
+::Helmet - isn't there some way you could downgrade the detail? :(
+::trails - I honestly have no idea. I'll have to try it on my fresh Oni install on my laptop.
+::Striker - looks better, though something about the proportions is bugging me, I'm not sure what. --[[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 09:09, 25 November 2008 (CET)
+:::I dunno, I think the Iron Man helmet is too recognizable to use here. --[[User:Iritscen|iritscen]] 17:01, 25 November 2008 (CET)
+----
+(Older talk from April 2008)
+:Hey geyser: Thanks for the background info for the project.  I'm sure you been reading about my struggles with importing the Masterchief into Oni.
+:Here is the link to my latest attempt: <nowiki>http://edt.oni2.net/3D/Masterchief_v1.zip</nowiki> includes the Blender and TRBS.oni files.
+:Please take a look at it, I think I'm getting closer.  I've posted a video on YouTube to show the Masterchief in action.
+::;EdT
+:Maybe you'd get even closer if you used this one: http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/spartan/mc_split.zip
+:He doesn't have shoulder body parts (yet?). From what I've seen he doesn't actually need any.
+:I'll probably provide a fully working character pack tonight (not final, but sorta showable).
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:18, 20 April 2008 (CEST)
+:geyser: I was using the version from owldreamer, which has all the parts.  The main issues I had were getting the rotation of the body parts correct and placing the center points in the proper location.  Also, I discovered that since the Masterchief is not the same size as the Elite, the legs and arms of the MC are shorter, the animations are off.  MC floats over the ground, since his legs are short and when he grabs and lifts Konoko up there is a clear gap between his hands and Konoko.  Further, depending on where you put the body on the x axis it affects whether or not the character is centered.  Once I had the body left of the center grid in Blender and he appeared off center in the game.
+::;EdT
+:owldreamer's parts are untextured, the overlaps suck big time, and he didn't even finish closing up the pelvis mesh. So my stuff is better.
+:As for the character size and center points and such: the workflow in XSI is OK; I'll let you know when I try and do the same thing in Blender.
+:Meanwhile, here's a fully functional Master Ninja Chief. Sources and .oni files included: http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/spartan/mc_ninja.zip
+:Enjoy. The pelvis/mid joint is ugly, so I wouldn't call him "final". I'll need to remodel the base of the midsection and/or tweak the spine a bit.
+:The ONCC is a completely new one, so he won't appear as an ally/opponent unless you edit the CHAR (I just use chr_set_class for testing).
+:Sorry again for not helping you out and doing all the work myself. I might give you a few general tips on [[Talk:Importing character models]].
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 07:37, 21 April 2008 (CEST)
+:That was a great idea to use the Ninjabot as the reference model, since all the texture are in a single image.  Though, somehow, I didn't picture the MC to be so nimble! :-)
+:FYI, I tried to import the .dae, but the importing failed in Blender.
+:Here is the error message;
+  The minor version of the file you are using is newer then the plug-in, so errors may occur.
+  image not found: file:///D:/geyser/edition/characters/chief/split/WhiteChief.tga
+  scene.link(ob) deprecated! use scene.objects.link(ob) instead
+  image not found: file:///D:/geyser/edition/characters/chief/split/WhiteChief.tga
+  image not found: file:///D:/geyser/edition/characters/chief/split/WhiteChief.tga
+  Traceback (most recent call last):
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/cstartup.py", line 609, in ButtonEvent
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 61, in __init__
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 67, in __Import
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 274, in Import
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 454, in LoadFromCollada
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 1811, in ObjectFromDae
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 1811, in ObjectFromDae
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 1811, in ObjectFromDae
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 1811, in ObjectFromDae
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 1767, in ObjectFromDae
+  File "/blender-2.46RC2-OSX-10.3-py2.5-powerpc/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts/bpymodules/colladaImEx/translator.py", line 1107, in LoadFromDae
+  ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
+:No apologies needed, actually, struggling with the 3D model, helped me learn more about the process than if you simply gave me the files.
+:On another note, I have an idea to add Motoko from GITS to Oni, perhaps as a "guest appearance" or in the dream level, a replacement for Evil Konoko.
+:Can you look at these models and see if we can use them (<nowiki>https://www.fileplanet.com/search.aspx?searchtype=2&q=motoko</nowiki>, dead link)  They are a Quake and Half life models, I don't have anything that can view them.
+:Also, I found this actual model and I thought we can use the outfit.
+:<nowiki>https://www.1999.co.jp/dbimages/user/hobby/itbig/10051368a.jpg</nowiki> (dead link)
+::EdT
+:'''That was a great idea to use the Ninjabot as the reference model''' ... but I didn't. The poser was Mukade (because his armor matches the Chief's nicely).
+:As for the single-texture TRMA, I indeed copy-pasted the ninjabot's. Keep in mind that it's nothing but a temporary hack, though: the texture was downsampled.
+:And as for the reason why I picked the ninjabot ONCC: it's just about the ninja jumping skills and the few sound links. I didn't want the Spartans to speak at all.
+:'''I didn't picture the MC to be so nimble!''' Oh? Here's a pack with an "elite" and a "zilla" variant for ya: http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/spartan/mc_three.zip
+:I did the ninja first because of the similarities with Mukade, and because the idea is to explore possibilities before we can decide on their fighting style.
+:Even if we blend several animation sets together, it might make sense to have 2 or 3 complementary classes of BGI troops, for challenge and variety.
+:'''the importing failed in Blender.''' XSI's handling of material libraries and file paths is a bit overkill. Try the files in the 3-pack, see if they work better.
+:''Anyway'', Blender won't be able to load the ''animation'' in those .dae files, so just import-reextract them with OniSplit, or extract directly from the TRBS.
+:Actually, I can't re-use those .dae files in XSI as-is, either. XSI dumps some extra data there, and it messes up center-transform control unless deleted.
+:'''struggling with the 3D model, helped me learn more about the process than if you simply gave me the files''' Ahem, looks like I ''am'' guilty then ^_^
+:I mean, I ''am'' "simply giving you the files", ain't I? And I didn't help you learn about the process at all: your struggle with Blender is still rather clueless.
+:'''I have an idea to add Motoko from GITS to Oni, perhaps as a "guest appearance" or in the dream level, a replacement for Evil Konoko.'''. There are several problems with that, I'm afraid.
+:About the sculpture: hotlinking images from non-affiliated sites is heavily discouraged. Either mirror the image on edt.oni2.net or link to it in its original context, on the same site that hosts it.
+:About Motoko in general: I don't want to talk about her here and now. Not here because this is [[AE_talk:BGI]]. Not now because she's a case of pure fan service, and that's the ''last'' thing I'd do.
+:The Chief is a placeholder for a plotwise-relevant entity, whereas the Major just can't be a "serious" ingredient. An Easter egg, maybe, or a anecdotal cameo in the dream level, but not more.
+:She ''can't'' replace Evil Konoko because the point of Evil Konoko is that she's Konoko, duh. She ''could'' make sense as a "puppet master" and an avatar of Oni's engine (named after Motoko).
+:Anyway, as for "see if we can use them", the recent history has shown that the "we" that's capable of actually "using" skinned models is pretty much reduced to poor little me at the moment.
+:And '''I''' am not interested in FPS skins of Motoko, sorry. Fileplanet/Gamespy is evil, the [<nowiki>http://www.planetquake3.net/pic.php3?c=./images/motoko-1.jpg</nowiki> [broken link] Q3A] and [http://www.dhlp.de/bilder/majork.jpg HL] skins are equally crappy, and even the [https://www.gamefront.com/games/jedi-knight-iii/file/major-kusanagi JK3 skin] is skimpy beyond all redemption...
+:More generally, assets recycled from 3d-party franchises will be a disgrace for Oni unless they fit in extremely well. Every such "joke" is a ''very'' bad one if we're just dumping content into Oni.
+:Take BGI, for example. It has good potential, both in terms of challenging gameplay and consolidated plot. But unless handled consistently, it will be no more than a shamelessly stolen MC.
+:'''I found this actual model and I thought we can use the outfit.''' This one looks good enough, but I'm not sure what you mean by "we can use the outfit", again.
+:If it's fan service we are after (multiplayer skins without multiplayer, or random easter eggs), then sure, we can set up an outfit resembling this easily enough.
+:Unlike for the Chief, there's absolutely no need to rip anything from anywhere. Oni already has plenty of readily swappable and retexturable female body parts.
+:With a few minor hairdo tweaks, you could bastardize Oni's meshes into something that looks pretty much like Motoko, or Strident, or Gally from GUNNM. Sure.
+:Using low-poly body parts such as Oni's is the best choice as far as I can tell. Smoother models are very likely to clash with Oni's overall graphical simplicity...
+:The essential know-how for such stuff (fan service, or any sophisticated bastardizing for that matter) is texturing. It takes a good texture artist to do those things.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 06:12, 22 April 2008 (CEST)
+:The 3-pack is of course far from final. It's hard to get the shoulders to look right when aiming with a rifle, so it's not surprising that it looks ugly right now.
+:I'll take a break now, and when I'm back I'll probably fix the shoulders and make a music video. Splitting up the UV map and texture is a bit less of an emergency.
+::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 06:24, 22 April 2008 (CEST)
+::Thank you, I also posted the link to your Masterchief models at OCF.
+::Also, I sent you an email to your googlemail account.
+::EdT
+[[Category:BGI]]