User talk:Ssg: Difference between revisions

From OniGalore
Jump to navigation Jump to search
m (A few answers, a little advice, and an urgent request ^^)
m (marking dead link)
 
(73 intermediate revisions by 8 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
==Oni Stuff==
==Skybox images==
:ssg, I ''beg'' you to synchronize OBD pages as you see fit (as long as you don't use RAW HTML, I suppose it's OK ^^)
:At least the pages for which you've changed the image on OS. And those for which you've documented not-yet-synced data.
:Of course, read through whatever you'll be overwriting, and merge anything you deem relevant into your update.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 13:36, 21 April 2007 (CEST)


The [http://ssg.oni2.net/test/skyhtm/sky.htm skies from Mafia] (sorry for the bad thumbnail quality) for Oni: [http://ssg.oni2.net/test/skyhtm/skyhex.zip skyhex.zip] (~10 mb)


----
A hex file contains the data (images flipped, mirrored and 32bit) for the raw/sep files. Copy the data of the sky you like to the end of a raw/sep file (with a hex editor) and change the raw/sep link of the sky images in the dat file (with OniUnPacker). Every image has a size of 256x256 pixels, which is a length of 40000 in hex.
==Shadow thingie==
 
http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/l1_6813_6836.jpg
For example, if the inserted hex data starts at position 0x02355500, the links have to be changed to:
http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/l1_this.jpg
 
http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/l10_1215.jpg
:front: 0x02355500
:
:left: 0x02395500
#AGQG id: [http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/crate.txt 6813-6836]
:back: 0x023D5500
#Shows where that box is. It's in level 1 at the beginning after the first door you have to unlock with the first console.
:right: 0x02415500
#Level 10, across from Shinatama; AGQG id: 1215
:top: 0x02455500
:
 
Any idea where the shadow thing is stored? It's not in the AGQG files and not in the TXMP files.
[[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 12:31, 24 December 2008 (CET)
:;ssg
:Ssg, while those look very nice, there are simpler ways of doing things nowadays. :P We could make them into actual new skys if you wanted. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 19:01, 24 December 2008 (CET)
:Basically, it's just the effect of the round shadow texture being projected vertically onto sloped floor quads.
:Glad to see you again, Ssg. I'd love it if you stuck around for a while. But wow, you have a lot of catching up to do when it comes to our modding abilities :-) --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:25, 24 December 2008 (CET) [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 19:46, 24 December 2008 (CET)
::In pic 3, the wall is actually not vertical: it's as if Konoko was standing at the bottom of a very steep ramp.
 
:Same for those crates: the walls are not vertical, so the shadow casts on them as if they were floors.
What do you mean by "make them into actual new skys"? Put them into AE? Change them? [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 19:25, 24 December 2008 (CET)
::So those shadows are nothing special, and are not stored anywhere. All that stuff is handled dynamically.
:Using Onisplit\AE framework, make a new ONSK. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 19:33, 24 December 2008 (CET)
:In order to better see what happens to the shadow quad(s) during those distorsions, try the wireframe mode.
 
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 13:36, 21 April 2007 (CEST)
@Gumby: Does Onisplit/AE mirror and flip the images and change them into 32 bit automatically?
No, no, and yes. But mirroring and flipping are easy to do in an image editing program. [[User:Gumby|Gumby]] 20:06, 24 December 2008 (CET)
@Iritscen: I wasn't really away. I've been following the things roughly going on at the Oni Central forum and here. So I'm not that much lost. :-) [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 19:46, 24 December 2008 (CET)
 
:ssg: Can you post the actual image files?  I used the thumbnails for the test sky, also, it seems the left and right are off somehow:
[[Image:sky13.jpg]]
 
I used OniSplit to create the new ONSK file [[User:EdT|EdT]]
 
@EdT: I can post the image files next year. (I don't have them here at my parents.)
 
The thumbnails are not mirrored and flipped. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 21:02, 25 December 2008 (CET)
 
The [http://ssg.oni2.net/test/skyhtm/skybmp.zip skies] mirrored, flipped and as 24bit bmp files. (zip file, ~10 mb) [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 09:57, 9 January 2009 (CET)


ssg: The skies look great except for the top image:


----
[[Image:Airportsky13.jpg]]
==OTA hacking==
func RespawnPlayer(int ai_id, string ai_team, string ai_name) {
    RandFlag
    if(selection eq 1) RandWeapon
    chr_teleport(ai_name, rand_flag_id)
    chr_inv_reset(ai_name)
    if(selection eq 1){
        chr_giveweapon(ai_name, rand_weapon_name)
        chr_givepowerup(ai_name, cell, rand_cell)
        chr_givepowerup(ai_name, ammo, rand_ammo)
    }
    if(RandShield()) chr_givepowerup(ai_name, shield)
    if(RandInvis()) chr_givepowerup(ai_name, invis)
    chr_full_health(ai_name)
    if(ai_team eq Konoko) fork FullyAware(ai_name, Syndicate)
    if(ai_team eq Syndicate) fork FullyAware(ai_name, Konoko)
    chr_wait_health(ai_name, 1)
    if(ai_name eq Tower_MB_1 and selection2 eq 0) chr_set_health(ai_name, 0)
    chr_pain(ai_name, "death")
    fork Death(ai_team)
    if(ai_name eq Tower_MB_1 and selection2 eq 0) {sleep 200; ai2_spawn(ai_name, force);}
    chr_inv_reset(ai_name)
    chr_givepowerup(ai_name, invis, 300)
    chr_changeteam(ai_name, Switzerland)
    if(chr_is_player(ai_name)) p3_removedangerous
    sleep 50
    chr_wait_animstate(ai_name, standing)
    chr_changeteam(ai_name, ai_team)
    fork RespawnPlayer(ai_id, ai_team, ai_name)
}
:Oni ignores the '''chr_teleport(ai_name, rand_flag_id)''' irregular for the respawned mad bomber.
::Anyone who has an idea why Oni ignores it? And why irregular?
:::(Even if I write the teleport command twice with sleep 200 between them, it doesn't work.)
::;ssg
:Why hack the old core? There were lots of things wrong with it...
::Why don't you port [http://geyser.oni2.net/OniTeamArena/WIP/ABPbis.zip this] instead? ^^
:By "irregular" I assume you mean "sometimes"... Well, in OTA 2, he respawns nicely.
::And the previous core is such a mess, it's really hard to say without trimming it.
:(yeah, generally, comment out everything that isn't essential for investigation)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 13:36, 21 April 2007 (CEST)
:Plus the mad bommber goes passive after some successful respawns.
::I can punch and kick him and nothing happens. He ignores me.
:*strange*
::;ssg
:I haven't figured out why that happens yet. Usually happens when there are many bots.
:Could be that there's only that much melee that can be run at a time (sixteen?).
:Anyway, you have 18 chars in there, and that's a lot. Not debug-friendly, anyway.
:I can't actiavely help right now. Try playing with dev console on, with fewer chars.
:I'd say you're almost guaranteed to get an error message corresponding to both problems.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 13:36, 21 April 2007 (CEST)


[[User:EdT|EdT]]


----
:Are you sure its not just all the other images? :)
==Linking to [[BSL]] files==
:[http://www6.fh-eberswalde.de/user/dkriesch/oni/arena_lab.txt complete file] rename the txt extension to bsl. Wiki don't want bsl extensions.
::;ssg
:The wiki normally supports linking to anything ASCII. See [[IGMD]] and subpages. The problem, if any, is with your browser.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 13:36, 21 April 2007 (CEST)


<!--
I've no idea what's wrong with the top image. I've tested all of them on my pc and they worked great.
### Text below disabled ###
:ssg, ''please'' don't update ''all'' the OBD pages
:to the format you chose. Allow for a "trial period".
:Choose a few representative file types and do ''them''.
:Also, we have to agree of how we call the data types
::(could you give me a list of those, e.g., [[OBD:Data|HERE]]?)
:Again, I ask you, ''please'' don't update everything at once.
:You can edit individual articles whenever you like,
::but something as systematic as a namespace-wide format change
:::have to be ground out a bit before it's applied at large scale.
:If anything, you're flooding "Recent changes"
::while we have our first spam to take care of.
:::(and you don't log in, naughty naughty).
:Please hear me. And "be patient".
::[[User:134.157.8.115|134.157.8.115]] 17:24, 24 November 2006 (CET)


:I noticed some of the sky files needed to be rotated 180 degrees such as the previous attempt.  But if I layout the photos in Photoshop first, I can order the files correctly. [[User:EdT|EdT]] 01:34, 21 January 2009 (CET)


:Only the most recent entries are visible
[[Image:sky9.jpg]]
::(older ones have been commented out).
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:I have a few complaints about the image files you just uploaded :
:*Their names are not capitalized properly (i.e., in consistence with the OBD file types);
:*There's no specific information on the file the data belongs to;
:*They can't be easily renamed or reorganized (e.g., split) : a "feature" of image pages;
:*Those images are not supposed to be thumbnailed : they'll be included in one page and that's all.
:I'd say there are other ways to ''actually'' improve OBD right now :
:*updating information : half of the "unknown" fields are actually known by now;
:*homogenizing the format (using the special "OBD" header/footer/table templates).
:If you want to upload images on oni2.net, I suggest you do it on ssg.oni2.net
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:01, 31 October 2006 (CET)
:And you flooded the Recent Changes, too ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 11:03, 31 October 2006 (CET)
----
*Normally they aren't capitalized. Wiki did that. (Who cares about that? Is this important?)
*I know it.
*First: Please don't rename them. Second: You can overwrite it f.e. with the first part of a splitted image and add the the other splitted parts as seperate images.
*Normally they aren't thumbnailed. Wiki did that.
:-
*Be patient.
*I've saved the header and footer templates already. (Where are table templates?)
*No one can alter images on ssg.oni2.net, except the admin and me, so I'd like to upload them to the wiki.
:-
*I'm sorry ;-)
:
:'''Edit:''' To your ONCP example:
*I won't add offsets. (Why does the offset of the package starts with 0x00?)
*I don't like the double border around the table.
*I won't split the table/images for such small images.
*I'll kick out the "overview @ Onistuff" and the "struct def for OUP"
{|width=100%
|align=right|ssg, 17:58, 1. November 2006 (CET)
|}
----
notes:
*The inline table borders look only good with Firefox. Have to fix that.
*The brown table cell background colour doesn't fit to the white wiki background. Will look for some alternatives.
*Wiki does not thumbnail images if you use them in an article (tested with OBD:CRSA).
*Will update some more pages the next days/weeks. The ONGS file was only a check, if my offline html2wiki translator works fine.
:
{|width=100%
|align=right|[[User:80.78.168.2|80.78.168.2]] 19:45, 9 November 2006 (CET)
|}




----
Um, am I the only one who wants to turn his head on its side to look at that shot? ^_^' Don't you think that sky texture should be rotated 90° counter-clockwise? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:11, 21 January 2009 (CET)
Hm, things went faster than I thought. Some of your concerns/"threats" I didn't address [[Current events|HERE]].


I'm glad you didn't actually "kick out" the "overview @ Onistuff" and the "struct def for OUP"... ^^


But I ''really'' wish you held your horses with the wiki-based image business : as in "do we need this"?
==Bungie TV from Macworld 2000==


That said, I'm positively impressed by your dedication and active contribution. Happy, even ^^
I found some old Bungie TV videos from the Macworld 2000 on the net today.


;Editing
Here's a [http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/btv%20pamphlet/Inside.jpg pic with the content] of the vids (~300 kb)
:Please log in unless you absolutely can't do so. You're gonna make me learn your IP by heart... ^^
;Tables
:The "File" in "OBD File Header" (or "... Footer") was for disambiguation from
::"OBD BINA Header", "OBD OBJC Header", "OBD OSBD Header" and maybe others...
:Since your table will be used for generic binary chunks, regardless of where they belongs to,
::I'd call your new template "OBD Table", as suggested earlier.
;Tables too
:If you ask me, there's nothing ''very'' wrong with a light brown (gold) background.
::Or with a white one, for that matter. Matches the default skin just fine. ^^
:::Anyway, I'm colorblind, so I'll let you handle those matters as you see fit.
:An "End" column is not needed. I'm not sure I'd call the first column "Start", but it's OK.
:I also don't like "Translation" and "Meaning" at all, but it's also cosmetic.
:As for the "Bytes", I think I'd replace it with a ''type'' when applicable
::(long, short, float, level ID, file ID, RAW/SEP address)
:::(maybe with a distinction between different DAT-link and RAW-link types, OBD-style)
::::(ideally, informative tables should replicate fully functional struct-defs and vice-versa)
::Actually, I wouldn't integrate the column headers (or their sizes) into the template at all.
:::Because in specific cases, you may want to organize the data somewhat differently
::::(e.g. [[OBD:BINA|HERE]] or [[OBD:TRAM/raw0x34|HERE]] or [[OBD:ONCC#0x15C_-_0x293|HERE]]) (it's messy, but you get the idea)
:The 100% width can be cancelled out by embedding the "OBD File Table" in another set of table tags
::Custom alignment of small tables can be handled there, too.
:::Headers and column sizes can't be overridden that way, though.
:I think a good compromise would be to split the "OBD File Table" in two :
:*the first half including the table tags (fancy backgeound color, 100%, etc). We'd call it "Fancy Table" because it has nothing to do with OBD.
:*the second half would be the header row, with its own fancy color, the column header names and their sizes. We'd call "Fancy OBD Header"
:Additionally, we can have a third template that just creates a row of "header" color, but doesn't specify column names and sizes. We'd call it "Fancy Header"
:By combining "Fancy Table" with either "Fancy OBD Header" or "Fancy Header", you'll be able to get :
:*the "predefined" format for documenting generic chunks of binary data
:*or a more "loose" (not OBD-specific) format where you'll be able to set up custom columns
:You can even use several "Fancy Header"s per table if you so wish
:We may also have such a "fancy row" template for the "Below follows the first package" (which is a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm#Semantic_pleonasm semantic pleonasm] BTW), probably with custom text.


;Images:
*[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/bungie_tour_100.mov Day 1] (mov file, 160 x 120, 5 min 33 sec, ~29 mb) - contains only the Bungie East tour; the rest was never part of the file (see [http://web.archive.org/web/20000817095745/www.bungie.com/btv/archive/ here]; look at the filename)
:Thumbnailing : I ''know'' images don't get thumbnailed by default (duh)
*[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/bTV_day2_big.mov Day 2] (mov file, 160 x 120, 38 min 30 sec, ~182 mb) - best vid, trip to Bungie West (Oni headquarters) plus Steve Abeyta shows some disarm moves
::The appearance on the article page will be ''exactly'' the same as with a URL
*:If anyone just wants to see the short bit of in-game footage (which is supposed to show the disarm moves but inadvertently demoes the working multiplayer they'd end up cutting), it's been clipped out and uploaded [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOmKXhZJ3b8 here]. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:33, 24 December 2008 (CET)
::And that's exactly my problem : ''no one'' will ''ever'' want to thumbnail them
*[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/bTV_day3_large.mov Day 3] (mov file, 160 x 120, 29 min 07 sec, ~217 mb) - see content pic above, lots of blah blah plus a ingame Halo preview at the end
::(or right-align them, or resize them, or do any fancy wiki-image stuff with them)
*[http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/bTV_day4_100.mov Day 4] (mov file, 160 x 120, 37 min 22 sec, ~277 mb) - see content pic above, very short ingame Halo preview, rest blah blah
::The only advantages are then :
::*a shorter location to type
:::(but it's not like you type those links in often)
::::(the image is featured on a single page and that's all)
::*the ability for dedicated users to provide alternative snapshots
:::(but they can do it just fine by linking to remote images)
::::(or, better, to images stored on their oni2.net accounts)
::*the permanent presence of the image at that location and on oni2.net
:::(again, the more dedicated people get an account on oni2.net, the better)
::::(in your case, is there a good reason for not mirroring stuff on ssg.oni2.net?)
:::::(if not for the whole site, at least the images...)
::The inability to rename the images, and the lousy short-term flexibility (e.g., splitting/merging snapshots)
:::are IMO ''major drawbacks'' of wiki-based images as compared to external URLs.
::::(in this specific case) (and so I'd really ask you to think it over again)
:Another "problem" (if you insist on having the images wiki-based) is with the format and filenames :
::Make it PNG rather than GIF
::Capitalize the names according to the names of the actual files


;Images Too
You can also download day two, three and four in very extra low poor quality [http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/Bungie%20Related%20Movies/MWSF%202000/Bungie%20TV/MWSF%202000/ here] (first three links, 5 to 12 mb), but that's more pixel art than a video. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 00:10, 20 January 2008 (CET)
:Whatever your "OBD Image" template is supposed to do, it's probably a bad idea. ^^
:Don't center images, or embed them in a table spanning the whole page.
:Please don't. Or at least say what's wrong with plain old left-aligned images
::(external ones ^^ )
:More generally, always think in terms of "what was wrong with the old stuff?"


;Images Again
::Cool, look forward to watching these. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:36, 5 March 2008 (CET)
:Actually, it may sound crazy, but I feel like taking [[Test#OBD file types|THIS]] experiment a bit further.
::I'm going to be linking the Bungie West and East articles to the tour vids (Day 1 and Day 2), so hopefully these files will stay around for a while. Can I count on that to be the case? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:01, 20 March 2008 (CET)
:Basically, I'd set up a "table row" template where you'd type the color, colspan and content of the fields.
:It may look like taking the "editability" of the images to the absurd, though
::Then again, they're not really images : there's nothing there but colors and text...


;Content
??? Why are you asking me that? I have no influence in the matter. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 00:28, 22 March 2008 (CET)
:You told me to "be patient". And fancyfying headers and tables is all very nice.
:I assumed that you uploaded them. Whose files are they? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:01, 24 March 2008 (CET)
::(BTW, we didn't mention [[Template:OBD TXT]] and [[Template:OBD TXT dec]])
:::(they're a bit specific to Oni Stuff, so maybe we should call them something else)
:But I'd still appreciate if crucial files like [[OBD:AGQG|AGQG]] were kept in sync with Oni Stuff...
::I have a few pending contributions, but they'd have to do with generic stuff like [[OBD:IDXA|IDXA]].
:I do understand that you words about html2wiki may reflect that kind of synchronization.
::So sorry if I sound like I'm rushing you again, but content sorta prevails for me. ^^
[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 18:49, 15 November 2006 (CET)


:Thanks for keeping it short. :p
==Bluebox screenshots==
::ssg
:About the BBBB screenshots you've been adding to [[BINA]]
:Thank ''you'' for cooperating
:#It would be nice if you described how they were obtained.
:(e.g., for taking the time to reply)
:#Are you sure '''navi.TXMP''' and '''buttons.TXMP''' are appropriate?
:I try to keep things organized, hope you like it.
:I'm pretty sure there is another, more plain-looking TXMP.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Not '''g206_controls_128x64.TXMP''', but something close...
:It's best if all talk page comments are signed,
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 20:14, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
:in case someone else wonders what's going on...
:... and "who's who"
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Bold-faced lines are best achieved with the "definition" markup (leading ";")
;like this
:(the only limitation is that you can't use ":" normally)
:(and you have to be careful when indenting, too)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:I'd also recommend the use of hlines to break up not-too-related content
:(e.g., on the ABNA page, what was wrong with the hlines before the footer?)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
----
:I also don't like "Translation" and "Meaning" at all [...]
To 1:
::;geyser
 
:You can change it if you want. Only one template to alter.
#added WMDDs from Level0_Tools.dat to Level0_Final.dat
::;ssg
#replaced the dialog ID (0x108) of the [[OBD:WMDD|WMDD]] with the dialog ID of the help-window (or whatever it's called; it's the window that pops up when you press F1)
:I will, thank you. ^^ But since the world's in motion...
 
:(I mean, templates will be split, renamed, etc...
To 2:
::Any column names will do for now)
:I'm not sure what you mean. Do you refer to the fact that some stuff in the iamges is overlapping? (If yes: Well, I never thought about that. I was too fixated on making the WMMDs visible, I guess.)
:(even "shpadoinkle" or "kalamazoo") (sorry ^^ )
 
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
'''Edit'''
----
 
:As for the "Bytes", I think I'd replace it with a type when applicable
I've changed in the last part of the dat file the name psui_oniUI to psui_oniUi. After that Oni reads the psui_g206 file. The result is this:
::;geyser
 
:Well, the type is stored indirectly in the "translation" column. So I'd prefer "bytes".
now: [[Image:Tool dialog - Edit Combat old.jpg]] before: [[Image:Tool dialog - Edit Combat older.jpg]]
::;ssg
 
:Illustrative examples are OK (I wouldn't say your examples are always very illustrative)
[[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 14:59, 11 December 2007 (CET)
:But ''I'' would prefer to provide the actual information in a way that isn't tied to the example used
 
:(same as in a struct def, ideally)
Short note: if there are still dialogs from tools.dat that you do not have screenshots for here you go:
:So "type" for me, definitely. The names "short", "long", "float", "char" ring an immediate bell,
<nowiki>https://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/tools_wmdd.zip</nowiki> (dead link)
:whereas looking at the "bytes" column, then at the "translation", then back...
:(I'm willing to give in to Delphi folks and capitalize those types : Short, Char, etc)
:(Also, I don't mind about String[X] rather than char[X] for strings of size X)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:As for Oni's internal types : I'd "define" extra types for file-ids and raw-addresses.
:Same as the OUP types and extensions. We've talked about that with Alloc, basically we need :
:*1 type for a DAT's ID, and another one for its level-ID
:*98 more types for DAT-links (ignoring the 16 defunct filetypes)
:*21 more types for RAW/SEP-links
::(1 for BINA, AKVA, OSBD, SNDD SUBT and TXMP; 2 for AGDB; 13 for TRAM)
:Tell me about any other types that come to your mind : we should "define" them too.
::(yes, I think we ''really'' need that, otherwise the info will be incomplete)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:I think the "long-with-high-bit" occurring, e.g., in the [[OBD:IDXA|IDXA]],
::is best viewed as two shorts... "Bitsets" are best viewed as chars.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:If the table row is a template (cf. "good idea" below),
:the name of a type could be a hyperlink to its "definition"
::(common page + anchor in that page).
:It's quite easy to set up, really.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:I think a good compromise would be to split the "OBD File Table" in two
::;geyser
:Yes, that's a good idea. I'd suggest to take
<nowiki>{| WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-width:1px; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;"</nowiki>
<nowiki>|- ALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"</nowiki>
:as a basic "prettytable"-like template. Maybe we should call the template "wikitable" or something like that.
::;ssg
:You misunderstood me as for the splitting.
:I meant to have nothing but that first line in the basic template : no header row.
:Some of your flags seem redundant to me, but I might be wrong. More, later.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Actually, there are lots of table templates on Wikipedia and elsewhere.
:Not that we should pick from them (yours is fine), but of course we can ^^
:Since it's a very plain-looking table, I'd call the template {{Table}}. Or {{TableHeader}}
::("...Header" to reflect that it's not a full set of table tags, just the opening)
:I'd call it {{GrayTable}}... if we weren't so likely to change the wiki's bg color... :P
:And I'd have it look like this (with flexibility in mind) :
<nowiki>{|BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;" WIDTH={{{1|100%}}} ALIGN={{{2|center}}}</nowiki>
:Tell me what you think.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:Choose a ''good'' name. (Please don't use words like "fancy". It confuses more than it explains.)
::;ssg
:I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the "fancification" was a joke.
:Not a ''good'' one, maybe, but a joke nonetheless ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:"Fancy" is ''not'' confusing, though.
:I think it unambiguously and accurately reflects the spirit of your endeavour :
::custom in a nice-looking way, somewhat stylish. No offence meant, of course.
:We'll choose a ''good'' name. Heck, I'll let ''you'' choose it. Be my guest.
:(I can always rename the template around as long as it's not widely used :P )
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:The
<nowiki>! WIDTH=5% | Start || WIDTH=5% | Bytes || WIDTH=10% | Hex || WIDTH=10% | Translation || WIDTH=70% | Meaning</nowiki>
:I'd put in a template called f.e. "OBD_Table_Title_Row".
:(Same here. Choose a ''good'' name.)
::;ssg
:I'd make it :
<nowiki>|- BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"</nowiki>
<nowiki>! WIDTH=5% | Offset || WIDTH=5% | Type || WIDTH=10% | Raw Hex || WIDTH=10% | Value || WIDTH=70% | Description</nowiki>
:And I'll let you choose the name, again
:({{OBD Table Header}} is fine by me)
:(maybe a bit confusing if we use "...Header" for the basic one)
:(yup, the basic one should be just {{Table}}, definitely)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:On second thought, those wide tables will only be ''the most common'' OBD tables.
::but by no means the only ones used to document Oni's binary data.
:Dunno what objective would suit them. We want something short enough to type.
:Since these tables will converge with OUP's Struct Defs eventually,
::(e.g., the info in the "Meaning" column should be as light as in a struct def)
:maybe either {{OBD Struct Header}} or {{OBD Struct Def Header}} is best.
:Or {{OBDstructHeader}}
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 12:52, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Oh, and then of course we'd have another template called, say, {{OBD Struct Row}}
::(or {{OBDstructRow}})
:::that would go like this :
<nowiki>|- ALIGN=center</nowiki>
<nowiki>|{{{1|Offset?}}}</nowiki>
<nowiki>|[[OBD:Data#{{{2|Data types}}}|{{{2|Type?}}}]]</nowiki>
<nowiki>|BGCOLOR="#{{{3|F9F9F9}}}" style="white-space:nowrap"|{{{4|Raw hex?}}}</nowiki>
<nowiki>|style="white-space:nowrap"|{{{5|Value?}}}</nowiki>
<nowiki>|ALIGN=left|{{{6|Description?}}}</nowiki>
:Another one for strings, say, {{OBD Struct Row 2}} or {{OBDstructRow2}} :
<nowiki>|- ALIGN=center</nowiki>
<nowiki>|{{{1|Offset?}}}</nowiki>
<nowiki>|[[OBD:Data#{{{2|Data types}}}|{{{2|Type?}}}]]</nowiki>
<nowiki>|BGCOLOR="#{{{3|F9F9F9}}}" COLSPAN=2 style="white-space:nowrap"|{{{4|String?}}}</nowiki>
<nowiki>|ALIGN=left|{{{5|Description?}}}</nowiki>
:Finally, an extra one for the "Below follows" thing, say, {{OBD Struct Row 0}} or {{OBDstructRow0}}:
<nowiki>|- ALIGN=center BGCOLOR="#000000"</nowiki>
<nowiki>|COLSPAN=5|<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR="#FFFFFF">{{{1|Text?}}}<FONT></nowiki>
:And that would be enough to get us started.
:Tell me if I forgot anything.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 12:52, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:[...] which is a semantic pleonasm BTW
::;geyser
:But if I write "Below follows the second package" (because, f.e. the pic shows the second package),
:instead of "Below follows the first package", and it is the first package in the table,
:it wouldn't a semantic pleonasm any longer, right?
:(Unbelievable that you still know so much about that stuff.
:I remember that I heard something about that at school years ago.
:But I forgot all.)
::;ssg
:I actively remember all the time ^^.
:Nice try, but both your examples up there are equally pleonastic (redundant).
:Simply because of "Below follows". Those two words are redundant of each other.
:(I formulated that line a bit differently on a few pages, most recently on [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]])
:(It's really no big deal, but when one sees it often... Hm. Hehe. Just delete all this... ^^)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:And that's exactly my problem : no one will ever want to thumbnail them
::;geyser
:I don't follow. What's exactly your problem?
:If you upload an image with 300x150, Wiki shows it with 300x150.
:Why do you care about so much, that "no one will ever want to thumbnail them".
:Sorry, but I don't get it.
::;ssg
:Auto-thumbnailing to any size you specify in an article,
::along with auto-hyperlinking to the "image page"
:::(possibly holding informative content or a redirect),
::::is ''the'' main advantage of wiki-based media content.
:Your images make no use of that, which is why the point for having them wiki-based is weak.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Another reason why, e.g., Wikipedia has all its media wiki-based
:is that it there's no user directories stored on the server alongside the wiki
:(something we ''do'' have on oni2.net, and "always will" : both run in parallel)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Some wikis prevent the display of external images. We do not, and the main reason
:is the ability, e.g., for me to link to Oni's [[Music/CD|OST MP3]] or [[Oni2:Influences/StateOfEmergency/Pictures|SoE screenshots]]
:(all that resides on oni2.net, and takes no more time to load than if it was wiki-based, maybe less)
:That also makes the point for uploading "plain-transcluded" images rather weak.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:The inability to rename the images
::;geyser
:You can rename them. (Why the heck do you want to rename them?)
::;ssg
:You can ''not'' rename ("move") media files. I'm sorry, but it's true.
:You can only delete them and/or upload them with a new name.
:I want to be able to rename them because the current names are
::a (not too pretty) relict of your own site's nomenclature.
:I want to be able to rename them because that's part of the full-control editing you're aiming at.
:It's wrong to massively edit (and ultimately split/merge) a file and be tied by the name someone else gave it, long ago.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:lousy short-term flexibility
::;geyser
:As I said: Split it and override the existing one. I can't see a problem here.
::;ssg
:See above : that's not what I call overwhelming editorial freedom.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:Make it PNG rather than GIF
::;geyser
:Yes, Wiki says: use png instead of gif, because gif supports only 256 colours.
:But: None of my hex screenshots uses more than 50 different colours.
:So it would be IMO really pretty stupid to change the file format without any need.
::;ssg
:There are a few other reasons to use PNG instead of GIF
:#It's open, not proprietary, but perhaps that's what we care about the least
:#It allows for advanced transparence effects (OK, that doesn't apply here either)
:#It compresses the images to much smaller sizes, despite the higher color depth.
:A high compression rate means more processor stress on the client side (peanuts)
:But the downloaded size is much smaller, which is especially felt by the server.
:How much is "much"? Well, it turns out that the PNG are about 70% smaller
:For instance, abna_a.gif takes up 5646 bytes.
:Converting it to PNG takes the size down to 1710 bytes.
:That's not much for a single download, of course.
:But it always helps to ease the load on the server, right?
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:Capitalize the names according to the names of the actual files
::;geyser
:Er... why should I do that? Are you trying to use a steamroller to crack a nut?
::;ssg
:Dunno. We use properly capitalized extensions everywhere : page names, OUP, plain text...
:The only exception is your site, and while I can't make you rename your own images, ^^
:I'd rather the ones you upload didn't inherit the "inconsistent" lowercase names.
:I ''so'' wish you'd have asked before uploading all of them... If you only knew... ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:Whatever your "OBD Image" template is supposed to do, it's probably a bad idea.
::;geyser
:Well, this has something to do with style.
:If f.e. someone changes the wiki background colour, so that it isn't longer white, you will have
:*a centered header,
:*an image with white background but with a max. width of 690px on the left,
:*and a table with a width of 100 percent.
:That sucks. It doesn't look good.
:But if you put the white-backgrounded image in a white-backgrounded table with a width of 100 percent,
:it will look much better. (Try it if you don't believe me.)
::;ssg
:Personally and generally, I don't give a crap about the nice looks as long as the content is there.
:And, as I've said, I'm colorblind, so I feel like leaving the color issues entirely to your expertise.
:So I guess we could say I ''do'' "believe" you in those matters (I mean web design in general).
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:However, I've never seen a MediaWiki build with a non-white background : that'd be 100% vain.
:''That'' is what would suck. Oni or no Oni, I don't think I could stand running a ''vain'' wiki.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:How you systematically stretch your tables to the page's width is not ''exactly'' fine by me, either.
:In many cases, stretching the content over a large screen looks like a waste of space
:(and I feel like left-aligning or centering them without stretching them, instead)
:(if not for the main OBD tables, at least the auxiliary ones are often quite small)
:(see [[OBD:BINA|BINA]])
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:It's nothing I can't live with, of course. Most of the time page-wide tables look nice.
:And I always have the possibility to customize an O table'sembed a "100%" table into a normal table.
:(I ''insist'' on that right : see my suggestion for the wiki-wide table template)
:(custom width and custom alignment : you ''have'' to allow for those)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Oh, and as for the centered header : it doesn't have to be centered.
:The alignment is one of the template's parameters, by design.
:First, the longer files (e.g., [[OBD:ONCC|ONCC]]) have a table of contents.
::(with the fields split up, even not too thematically, it allows one to
:::jump from the top of the page to the region one is interested in).
:The header is supposed to fit alongside the TOC on a reasonably large monitors (see, e.g., [[OBD:CRSA|CRSA]])
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Second, even when there is no TOC, one can provide a few initial "words of wisdom".
:Something that introduces the reader to the general purpose of the file
::and outlines its layout in the most synthetic way (see, e.g., [[OBD:ONVL|ONVL]])
:::or [[OBD:ONCV|ONCV]], or even [[OBD:ONWC|ONWC]], although it certainly need reorganizing.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
:Info on links, too : what kind of resources this file links to, as well as "what links here".
:All that infromation is IMO best presented before the detailed breakdown of the structure.
:Such a summary (very Wikipedia-like) would very well fit alongside the "header".
:Whenever there is a TOC, I'd still have the ''TOC'' alongside the header, though.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 17:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:I'd like to use the image template for the hex images (even if we don't need it now).
::ssg
:I have a few more considerations for you, and an alternative. Check out [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]].
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:We should have a zip file with all the current struct defs somewhere.
::ssg
:On svn.oni2.net, of course. In the same folder as the individual struct defs will be.
:We'll have to redefine all of them (see above, talk to Alloc) in the "near" future...
:They have to allow for unambiguous browsing of the file-system by OUP (e.g., patching).
:Starting from a ''named'' file (same name on all versions), the patcher should use
::''nothing but version-independent information'' to browse the level-files.
:Then, and only then, can we create a "legal" patcher that works the same on every version
::and doesn't allow one to download all of Oni's resources for free.
:(I already stressed the other advantage of that system : ''modularity'')
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:Actually, it may sound crazy, but I feel like taking [[Test#OBD_file_types|THIS]] experiment a bit further.
::;geyser
:Well, if you have enough time, you can do that. Have fun. :p
::;ssg
:I did it. It works. Check it out [[Test#HexRow|HERE]] or on [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]].
:I didn't implement the black/gray outlines but I don't think we really need them.
:The markup takes up half as much space as the PNG (and 84% less than a GIF, fa fa fa! )
:The rendered HTML takes up more space than a PNG, but it's still less than half as big as a GIF.
:The editability is unrivaled.
:Doing those by hand takes a reasonable time, I'd say, because of the handy layout.
:For larger chunks, though, scripts may be in order.
:Since it's fully editable, you can omit the irrelevant stuff
::(e.g., senseless ASCII, confirmed garbage...)
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
----
:But I'd still appreciate if crucial files like [[OBD:AGQG|AGQG]] were kept in sync with Oni Stuff...
::;geyser
:I'm not sure I understand correctly what you want, but if we agree on the design,
:I'll adapt the html2wiki translator to that and update all file pages with the new code.
::[[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 12:57, 17 November 2006 (CET)
:You got it right. I'm looking forward to that.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 04:25, 18 November 2006 (CET)
==Logging in==
:No time to log in, sorry. Text was written at home.
::;ssg
:That's no excuse. You can type "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" into your home-made text. Then log in, edit, and paste your stuff.
:Every "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" will be replaced with a correct signature (user name, hyperlink, time and date).
:You may ''have'' to log in some time soon, since we have confirmed spam and I'm not too hot for manual reverts.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)


[[User:Neo|Neo]]


----
Cool. Thank you. Did you managed it to "actiivate" the "Tools" files? [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 01:19, 12 December 2007 (CET)
----
:After reading your little roman :p , I'd suggest the following things:
::;ssg
:They're called "novels" in English. No one knows why.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)
:That's it. Can I start now? Yes or yes? :p
::[[User:ssg|ssg]] 12:42, 21 November 2006 (CET)
:No. Since you're asking, you'll have to wait until tomorrow.
:^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)


If by activate you mean loading tools.dat in Oni then no. (Though I converted tools.dat to PC format but Oni crashes if it finds it and I did not bother to check why). Those images were generated with my viewer.


----
[[User:Neo|Neo]]
----
==Templates==
;[[Template:Table]]
<nowiki>{|BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 STYLE="border-style:solid; border-collapse:collapse; empty-cells:show; background:#F9F9F9;" WIDTH={{{width|100%}}} ALIGN={{{align|center}}}</nowiki>
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)
:Why do we need the "|center" when the basic width is 100%?
::;ssg
:To have it centered by default if one specifies a smaller width.
:Maybe it should be "left" rather than "center". Minor detail.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)
;[[Template:OBD_Table_Header]]
<nowiki>|- BGCOLOR="#E9E9E9"</nowiki>
<nowiki>! WIDTH=5% | Offset || WIDTH=5% | Type || WIDTH=10% | Raw Hex || WIDTH=10% | Value || WIDTH=70% | Description</nowiki>
----
:''No other table templates''. It's not the idea of templates to replace everything.
:When I look to the wiki code, I want to see the real code and not a bunch of links to a hundred of templates.
::;ssg
:I disagree, as a wiki admin and as a "real coder" ^^
:Templates are meant to spare on redundant typing,
::and your tables have a lot of that, primarily :
::*BGCOLOR="#..." for the '''Hex''' column
::*ALIGN=right for the '''Meaning''' column
:If you think having this "information" present in every line is OK,
::think again. It's not this kind of "real code" a casual editor is after.
:An extreme example of that is [[Template:HexRow]].
::Can you imagine what it would look like to have anything close
:::to the "real code" while editing such a table?
:The HTML for such a table is heavy, the wiki-markup is lighter,
::and the templated wiki-markup is ''much'' lighter.
:(there's a template call per row, but it's ''one single'' template,
::so actually it looks very much like ordinary table row syntax)
:Now, the struct def tables are less extreme than that, sure,
::but they still have a rather strict format for every row.
:There's the custom color, there's the custom alignment,
::and there may be systematic hyperlinks from the type column.
:So I'd definitely template that row in the way I suggested.
:Same for the other 2. Their job is to make the code ''editable''.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)


Sorry for interrupting you guys a bit.
I saw the new WMMDs.. Are you going to upgrade OniSplit or OUP like Bungie's original editor tool? That would be cool. How far are you done?<br>
By a side note: on "dialog_character_properties.png" you can see three different shields.  So, maybe the (red one) "boss shield" was editable?
:[[User:Paradox-01|Paradox-01]] 17:53, 12 December 2007 (CET)


----
Would it be possible for me to get a copy of Bluebox since I'm on the Mac?
----
[[User:EdT|EdT]]
==Misc==
===Type as a column===
:Okay. "Bytes" will be replaced.
::;ssg
:We'll have to agree on the type names...
:And on what page they'll link to.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)
===hlines===
:Sorry. My mistake. They will be there.
::;ssg
:What about [[Template:OBD TXT]] and [[Template:OBD TXT dec]]?
:You didn't plan on uploading them (the text files) as wiki-media, did you? ^^
:I'm thinking about making them into wiki-tables (subpages of their respective articles).
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:43, 21 November 2006 (CET)
===Below follows===
:"below follows" is a semantic pleonasm? Why? I don't get it. *tilt*
::;ssg
:Because we write from the top down. Because your tables are top-down lists.
:The "below follows" row splits your tables in two halves.
:Whatever "follows" will inevitably be "below" that row.
:So "before"=="above", and "after"=="below".
:Hence, "Below follows BLAH." is pleonastic.
:"Below is BLAH." is not, and neither is "BLAH follows."
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
===BSP===
:BSP = Binary Space Partition. Use google if you want to know more about it.
::;ssg
:The problem is not with ''me'' not having taken the time to Google it up.
:The problem is that the [[OBD:ABNA|ABNA]] page deals with BSP trees,
::but doesn't provide any info as for what a BSP tree actually is
:::(which is why I asked the question ''there'', obviously).
:The other problem is : if you know what a BSP tree is,
::why those vague comments about the unknown fields?
:::Don't you already know everything about them?
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)


Alloc or geyser can help, I guess. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 02:02, 20 January 2008 (CET)


----
I switched the bluebox images from the blue to the lila ones. Hope that was okay. [[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 18:07, 17 June 2008 (CEST)
==Images==
:Yes, it's OK. Thanks. [[User:Neo|Neo]]
:Let me quote "Sledge Hammer" to comment your "problem(s)":
::"That's a pish pot of nonsense." :p <== I hope you see the smiley.
:So take it easy, even if it sounds a bit rough. :-)
::;ssg
:Now ''that's'' the kind of argumentation I ''like'' ! ^^
:Seriously, it's great that we're no longer afraid of offending each other.
:However, that kind of half-serious subjectivity sorta kills a debate.
:When you call something nonsense and then say you don't mean it,
::what do you ''actually'' mean, if anything at all?
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
:Heh, maybe I should answer you with another quote?
::''THISH ISH A LASHER BLASHTER, SHO YOU DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD, REBEL SHWINE
:^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
:Really, why don't you just mirror your stuff on ssg.oni2.net and link to it?
:Is there any clear reason for not doing so?
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
----
:Besides, if you are really going to replace the images with a table,
::you don't have to care about the image format (gif or png),
:::where they  should be hosted and the presence of image templates.
::;ssg
:That's somewhat more relevant, although not entirely in your favor ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
:I really feel like generating those ASCII tables. With HxD and PsPad.
::("Willst Du mitmachen?" ^^ well, I sorta hoped you to)
:In that respect, no, I don't really care about what you do.
:I mean, images with odd names and formats don't hurt me directly.
:True. Sometimes I just complain about anything and everything... ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
===png===
:Wow, I didn't know that the file size of the png's are so much smaller.
:Nevertheless, I won't change the file format. I can't see any ''real need'' for that.
::;ssg
:If you don't do it, guess who will ^^
:I'll reupload them all as PNG.
::Properly capitalized.
:::On geyser.oni2.net ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
===capitalization===
:I do never capitalize file names.
::;ssg
:Principles, my friend, are yet another "pish pot of nonsense" ^^
::A really big one.
:Mediawiki capitalizes article names and that means filenames.
:''And you know it''. Why do you upload a file called '''wpge_all.gif'''
::when you know it will be shown as '''Wpge_all.gif'''
:(and the actual name of the resource is '''WPge''')?
:You're forcing anyone who wants to work with those images
::(e.g., split/rename them)
:::to live with that counter-intuitive mess.
:Why?
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
:Actually, [[:Image:wpge_all.gif]] will still work,
::but how many can you expect to figure ''that'' out?
:Filenames for uploaded media have to be chosen carefully.
:They have to be ''good'' names, if you like ^^.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
===image template===
:I've never seen a MediaWiki build with a non-white background...
::;geyser
:I have. It was dark blue and didn't look bad.
::;ssg
:Bad looks are ''not'' the problem there.
:OG is ''not'' getting a dark blue background.
:Over my dead body. ^^
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
----
:However, I'll keep the template, because:
:*You can delete the table easily, if you don't like it.
:*If (!) we host the images not any longer at wiki, we can add the new url easily to the template
::;ssg
:Sounds good. You know what? I'll do the same with [[Template:OBDstructRow]] ^^
:I can't believe you were a fierce opponent of "templates everywhere" only a few lines earlier...
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)


==Homing Weapons?==
Hi, Ssg. I was looking over the weapons class in the Oni binaries, and I can't find where it records that certain projectiles, like the Scram cannon's, are homing. Isn't there a bit for that? --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 19:57, 28 February 2008 (CET)
:Homing is a property of the projectile, not of the weapon class. You want to look at [[OBD:BINA/PAR3]].
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 23:14, 28 February 2008 (CET)
:Oh... Sorry, Iritscen, didn't see your question.
:Thanks for the answer, geyser. :-)
::[[User:Ssg|Ssg]] 23:04, 4 March 2008 (CET)
Yes, thank you. I have a neat weapon-modding idea I'd like to try. This would be my first modding attempt (we'll see if it works, I don't want to promise much, and it's a simple idea anyway). --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 15:32, 5 March 2008 (CET)


----
[[Category:Userspace]]
==Bottom line==
:OK, feel free to do ''anything''.
:You are free to update all the tables in every article with your stuff.
:You are also free to only do a few pages, sorta like a test for the format.
:I may give a few pages a try with that [[Template:OBDstructRow]] of mine.
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
:The OBD-specific "OBD Table Header" template I'd make less general :
::it's not like we'll never ever have another OBD-specific table template.
:I suggested [[OBDstructHeader]] earlier...
::[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 16:00, 22 November 2006 (CET)
-->

Latest revision as of 14:38, 7 May 2023

Skybox images

The skies from Mafia (sorry for the bad thumbnail quality) for Oni: skyhex.zip (~10 mb)

A hex file contains the data (images flipped, mirrored and 32bit) for the raw/sep files. Copy the data of the sky you like to the end of a raw/sep file (with a hex editor) and change the raw/sep link of the sky images in the dat file (with OniUnPacker). Every image has a size of 256x256 pixels, which is a length of 40000 in hex.

For example, if the inserted hex data starts at position 0x02355500, the links have to be changed to:

front: 0x02355500
left: 0x02395500
back: 0x023D5500
right: 0x02415500
top: 0x02455500

Ssg 12:31, 24 December 2008 (CET)

Ssg, while those look very nice, there are simpler ways of doing things nowadays. :P We could make them into actual new skys if you wanted. Gumby 19:01, 24 December 2008 (CET)
Glad to see you again, Ssg. I'd love it if you stuck around for a while. But wow, you have a lot of catching up to do when it comes to our modding abilities :-) --Iritscen 19:25, 24 December 2008 (CET) Ssg 19:46, 24 December 2008 (CET)

What do you mean by "make them into actual new skys"? Put them into AE? Change them? Ssg 19:25, 24 December 2008 (CET)

Using Onisplit\AE framework, make a new ONSK. Gumby 19:33, 24 December 2008 (CET)

@Gumby: Does Onisplit/AE mirror and flip the images and change them into 32 bit automatically? No, no, and yes. But mirroring and flipping are easy to do in an image editing program. Gumby 20:06, 24 December 2008 (CET) @Iritscen: I wasn't really away. I've been following the things roughly going on at the Oni Central forum and here. So I'm not that much lost. :-) Ssg 19:46, 24 December 2008 (CET)

ssg: Can you post the actual image files? I used the thumbnails for the test sky, also, it seems the left and right are off somehow:

Sky13.jpg

I used OniSplit to create the new ONSK file EdT

@EdT: I can post the image files next year. (I don't have them here at my parents.)

The thumbnails are not mirrored and flipped. Ssg 21:02, 25 December 2008 (CET)

The skies mirrored, flipped and as 24bit bmp files. (zip file, ~10 mb) Ssg 09:57, 9 January 2009 (CET)

ssg: The skies look great except for the top image:

Airportsky13.jpg

EdT

Are you sure its not just all the other images? :)

I've no idea what's wrong with the top image. I've tested all of them on my pc and they worked great.

I noticed some of the sky files needed to be rotated 180 degrees such as the previous attempt. But if I layout the photos in Photoshop first, I can order the files correctly. EdT 01:34, 21 January 2009 (CET)

Sky9.jpg


Um, am I the only one who wants to turn his head on its side to look at that shot? ^_^' Don't you think that sky texture should be rotated 90° counter-clockwise? --Iritscen 04:11, 21 January 2009 (CET)


Bungie TV from Macworld 2000

I found some old Bungie TV videos from the Macworld 2000 on the net today.

Here's a pic with the content of the vids (~300 kb)

  • Day 1 (mov file, 160 x 120, 5 min 33 sec, ~29 mb) - contains only the Bungie East tour; the rest was never part of the file (see here; look at the filename)
  • Day 2 (mov file, 160 x 120, 38 min 30 sec, ~182 mb) - best vid, trip to Bungie West (Oni headquarters) plus Steve Abeyta shows some disarm moves
    If anyone just wants to see the short bit of in-game footage (which is supposed to show the disarm moves but inadvertently demoes the working multiplayer they'd end up cutting), it's been clipped out and uploaded here. --Iritscen 19:33, 24 December 2008 (CET)
  • Day 3 (mov file, 160 x 120, 29 min 07 sec, ~217 mb) - see content pic above, lots of blah blah plus a ingame Halo preview at the end
  • Day 4 (mov file, 160 x 120, 37 min 22 sec, ~277 mb) - see content pic above, very short ingame Halo preview, rest blah blah

You can also download day two, three and four in very extra low poor quality here (first three links, 5 to 12 mb), but that's more pixel art than a video. Ssg 00:10, 20 January 2008 (CET)

Cool, look forward to watching these. --Iritscen 15:36, 5 March 2008 (CET)
I'm going to be linking the Bungie West and East articles to the tour vids (Day 1 and Day 2), so hopefully these files will stay around for a while. Can I count on that to be the case? --Iritscen 15:01, 20 March 2008 (CET)

??? Why are you asking me that? I have no influence in the matter. Ssg 00:28, 22 March 2008 (CET)

I assumed that you uploaded them. Whose files are they? --Iritscen 15:01, 24 March 2008 (CET)

Bluebox screenshots

About the BBBB screenshots you've been adding to BINA
  1. It would be nice if you described how they were obtained.
  2. Are you sure navi.TXMP and buttons.TXMP are appropriate?
I'm pretty sure there is another, more plain-looking TXMP.
Not g206_controls_128x64.TXMP, but something close...
geyser 20:14, 24 September 2007 (CEST)

To 1:

  1. added WMDDs from Level0_Tools.dat to Level0_Final.dat
  2. replaced the dialog ID (0x108) of the WMDD with the dialog ID of the help-window (or whatever it's called; it's the window that pops up when you press F1)

To 2:

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you refer to the fact that some stuff in the iamges is overlapping? (If yes: Well, I never thought about that. I was too fixated on making the WMMDs visible, I guess.)

Edit

I've changed in the last part of the dat file the name psui_oniUI to psui_oniUi. After that Oni reads the psui_g206 file. The result is this:

now: Tool dialog - Edit Combat old.jpg before: Tool dialog - Edit Combat older.jpg

Ssg 14:59, 11 December 2007 (CET)

Short note: if there are still dialogs from tools.dat that you do not have screenshots for here you go: https://cid-639aa31296681bfe.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Oni/tools_wmdd.zip (dead link)

Neo

Cool. Thank you. Did you managed it to "actiivate" the "Tools" files? Ssg 01:19, 12 December 2007 (CET)

If by activate you mean loading tools.dat in Oni then no. (Though I converted tools.dat to PC format but Oni crashes if it finds it and I did not bother to check why). Those images were generated with my viewer.

Neo

Sorry for interrupting you guys a bit. I saw the new WMMDs.. Are you going to upgrade OniSplit or OUP like Bungie's original editor tool? That would be cool. How far are you done?
By a side note: on "dialog_character_properties.png" you can see three different shields. So, maybe the (red one) "boss shield" was editable?

Paradox-01 17:53, 12 December 2007 (CET)

Would it be possible for me to get a copy of Bluebox since I'm on the Mac? EdT

Alloc or geyser can help, I guess. Ssg 02:02, 20 January 2008 (CET)

I switched the bluebox images from the blue to the lila ones. Hope that was okay. Ssg 18:07, 17 June 2008 (CEST)

Yes, it's OK. Thanks. Neo

Homing Weapons?

Hi, Ssg. I was looking over the weapons class in the Oni binaries, and I can't find where it records that certain projectiles, like the Scram cannon's, are homing. Isn't there a bit for that? --Iritscen 19:57, 28 February 2008 (CET)

Homing is a property of the projectile, not of the weapon class. You want to look at OBD:BINA/PAR3.
geyser 23:14, 28 February 2008 (CET)
Oh... Sorry, Iritscen, didn't see your question.
Thanks for the answer, geyser. :-)
Ssg 23:04, 4 March 2008 (CET)

Yes, thank you. I have a neat weapon-modding idea I'd like to try. This would be my first modding attempt (we'll see if it works, I don't want to promise much, and it's a simple idea anyway). --Iritscen 15:32, 5 March 2008 (CET)

Retrieved from "https://wiki.oni2.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ssg&oldid=40474"