User talk:Geyser: Difference between revisions

User talk:Geyser (view source)

Revision as of 13:26, 25 August 2008

3,143 bytes added , 25 August 2008

sense of humor is *so* overrated...

Geyser

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 :'''choosing what level's flags to look at if there's no way to find out the current level through BSL''' You're forgetting that the global folder doesn't work on the Mac, and so the menu you suggest would have to be level-folder-resident anyway. and even if it had a global component, flag-related information would just go in level-specific BSL files: the global core wouldn't "detect" the level, it would just load the currently relevant level-specific script (see [http://geyser.oni2.net/OniTeamArena/WIP/IGMD_OTA2.ZIP THIS] for an example). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 01:37, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
 ::I suppose your method would work fine. But I wasn't forgetting (this time) that the Mac couldn't do global scripts, I was actually imagining that one monster script would cover all 14 level files' flags, and that single script could get put in each level's folder so the user wouldn't have to worry about matching up a script to each level as part of some 15 folder-spanning network of BSL (plus it makes more work if there's a 1.1 release and they have to replace a 1.0 core script and then all the level-specific scripts (in case the 1.1 core doesn't support the 1.0 level scripts)). It's just more efficient that way. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:42, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
+::'''I was actually imagining that one monster script would cover all 14 level files' flags''' That would have a chance of overloading the BSL engine, which can only load this much logic at a time. I wouldn't know about the "efficiency" of a moster script, and I'm not sure what the file-buffer limits of BSL are, but it's typically more sound to provide only the logic relevant to the current level. As the designer of OTA, I know what I'm talking about ^_^ --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
 :'''In other words, scriptifying ZDLO's flag tables.''' SHORT ATTENTION SPAN ALERT! Didn't I link to [http://zdlo.oni2.net/Scripts/DeveloperMode/FlagMap/ THIS] above? It actually works on the Mac, except you're not able to read the healthboxes. You can easily make a version where you can review the IDs of the group of flags being shown and cycle through them. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 01:37, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
 ::MISSING MY POINT ALERT. I ''am'' now using ZDLO's tables in the way that Ed suggested, but it would be even cooler to meld his grouped, descriptive approach with your OniMenu system so it's all in-game and you can try each flag out by teleporting there. That's what I was saying. Right now OM makes you use an outside flag-number reference and you have to laboriously type in flag numbers by punching and kicking, so my idea is a landmark improvement for modders. That being said, how many people would be using such a script? So I'm not suggesting anyone jump on it. Just thinking out loud (I know you love it when I do that).
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 :'''It seems like a fair amount of work, but it would be easy work, mostly copying and pasting BSL code.''' That'll be a "no comment" for me. Same for the words of wisdom about the essence of programming... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 01:37, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
 ::I think if anyone ever asks me, "Does geyser have a sense of humor?", I'll use the same response: "No comment." --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 04:30, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
+::'''I ''am'' now using ZDLO's tables in the way that Ed suggested''' You're the one who missed my point. I've been telling you that ZDLO not only wrote up the tables mentioned by Ed, but also came up with a series of menu-like scripts (hosted [http://zdlo.oni2.net/Scripts/DeveloperMode/FlagMap/ HERE]). Those scripts have a new core tailored for the job, much lighter than OniMenu: a level's flags are displayed one group at a time, roughly following the groups established by ZDLO himself. By design, you don't even have to teleport anywhere, because all the information (every flag's location, facing and ID) is displayed by means of dummy characters: you just walk around and see the info. "Healthboxes? What healthboxes?" - precisely. The ID of the flags is displayed as the health of the dummy characters - this is enabled by ai2_showhealth=1 and takes the form of black text in a white box above every character's head (there is also a health bar extending upwards by 1 world unit for every hitpoint). The only problem is that on the Mac the health box above the characters isn't displayed, so you can not read a flag's ID directly. One workaround is to complement ZDLO's scripts with a mini-flag-browser that works within the currently displayed group of flags. A simpler solution is to list the IDs of the current group of flags, so that the user can explore them with chr_teleport. Finally, someone who ''can'' see the healthboxes can take a few screenshots and post them somewhere, as a complement to ZDLO's tables. Along with or instead of ZDLO's scripts, you can also use Neo's OniBrowser, which displays stuff like FLAG or TRGV right in the 3D view of a level. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST)
+::'''how many people would be using such a script?''' The main point here is that developing such GUI-like tools (the term you use is "landmark improvement for modders") amounts to empowering lamers. A fluent modder typically won't limit himself to the range of flags (or other OBJC) available in the original levels. And if that modder ''does'' want to review some original flags, then the available lists, tables and browsers allow him to do so efficiently enough. In that sense, ZDLO's set of flag viewers are a gadget that may seem nifty to the lazy and clueless, but are definitely not a revolution for those who can actually use the knowledge to create great mods - those people know better than to ask or wait for point-and-click nicicles. If anything, they've been using OniBrowser to review that kind of stuff for the past few months... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST)