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User talk:Geyser: Difference between revisions
I'm feeling my oats this morning; must be that oatmeal I ate
(sense of humor is *so* overrated...) |
(I'm feeling my oats this morning; must be that oatmeal I ate) |
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::'''I ''am'' now using ZDLO's tables in the way that Ed suggested''' You're the one who missed my point. I've been telling you that ZDLO not only wrote up the tables mentioned by Ed, but also came up with a series of menu-like scripts (hosted [http://zdlo.oni2.net/Scripts/DeveloperMode/FlagMap/ HERE]). Those scripts have a new core tailored for the job, much lighter than OniMenu: a level's flags are displayed one group at a time, roughly following the groups established by ZDLO himself. By design, you don't even have to teleport anywhere, because all the information (every flag's location, facing and ID) is displayed by means of dummy characters: you just walk around and see the info. "Healthboxes? What healthboxes?" - precisely. The ID of the flags is displayed as the health of the dummy characters - this is enabled by ai2_showhealth=1 and takes the form of black text in a white box above every character's head (there is also a health bar extending upwards by 1 world unit for every hitpoint). The only problem is that on the Mac the health box above the characters isn't displayed, so you can not read a flag's ID directly. One workaround is to complement ZDLO's scripts with a mini-flag-browser that works within the currently displayed group of flags. A simpler solution is to list the IDs of the current group of flags, so that the user can explore them with chr_teleport. Finally, someone who ''can'' see the healthboxes can take a few screenshots and post them somewhere, as a complement to ZDLO's tables. Along with or instead of ZDLO's scripts, you can also use Neo's OniBrowser, which displays stuff like FLAG or TRGV right in the 3D view of a level. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST) | ::'''I ''am'' now using ZDLO's tables in the way that Ed suggested''' You're the one who missed my point. I've been telling you that ZDLO not only wrote up the tables mentioned by Ed, but also came up with a series of menu-like scripts (hosted [http://zdlo.oni2.net/Scripts/DeveloperMode/FlagMap/ HERE]). Those scripts have a new core tailored for the job, much lighter than OniMenu: a level's flags are displayed one group at a time, roughly following the groups established by ZDLO himself. By design, you don't even have to teleport anywhere, because all the information (every flag's location, facing and ID) is displayed by means of dummy characters: you just walk around and see the info. "Healthboxes? What healthboxes?" - precisely. The ID of the flags is displayed as the health of the dummy characters - this is enabled by ai2_showhealth=1 and takes the form of black text in a white box above every character's head (there is also a health bar extending upwards by 1 world unit for every hitpoint). The only problem is that on the Mac the health box above the characters isn't displayed, so you can not read a flag's ID directly. One workaround is to complement ZDLO's scripts with a mini-flag-browser that works within the currently displayed group of flags. A simpler solution is to list the IDs of the current group of flags, so that the user can explore them with chr_teleport. Finally, someone who ''can'' see the healthboxes can take a few screenshots and post them somewhere, as a complement to ZDLO's tables. Along with or instead of ZDLO's scripts, you can also use Neo's OniBrowser, which displays stuff like FLAG or TRGV right in the 3D view of a level. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST) | ||
::'''how many people would be using such a script?''' The main point here is that developing such GUI-like tools (the term you use is "landmark improvement for modders") amounts to empowering lamers. A fluent modder typically won't limit himself to the range of flags (or other OBJC) available in the original levels. And if that modder ''does'' want to review some original flags, then the available lists, tables and browsers allow him to do so efficiently enough. In that sense, ZDLO's set of flag viewers are a gadget that may seem nifty to the lazy and clueless, but are definitely not a revolution for those who can actually use the knowledge to create great mods - those people know better than to ask or wait for point-and-click nicicles. If anything, they've been using OniBrowser to review that kind of stuff for the past few months... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST) | ::'''how many people would be using such a script?''' The main point here is that developing such GUI-like tools (the term you use is "landmark improvement for modders") amounts to empowering lamers. A fluent modder typically won't limit himself to the range of flags (or other OBJC) available in the original levels. And if that modder ''does'' want to review some original flags, then the available lists, tables and browsers allow him to do so efficiently enough. In that sense, ZDLO's set of flag viewers are a gadget that may seem nifty to the lazy and clueless, but are definitely not a revolution for those who can actually use the knowledge to create great mods - those people know better than to ask or wait for point-and-click nicicles. If anything, they've been using OniBrowser to review that kind of stuff for the past few months... --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] 15:26, 25 August 2008 (CEST) | ||
:::Okay, I was totally ignorant of ZDLO's flag browser, so thank you for explaining it. I also didn't realize that PCs could display text above character's heads, but it sure explains [http://gumby.oni2.net/runloser.jpg this]. | |||
:::Also, you might be interested to know that I figured out why we disagree on the basic idea of making user-friendly modding tools; it came to me in a flash of insight. [http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ ''I'm a Mac and you're a PC'']. The guiding principle behind the Macintosh was that if you provided a well-designed GUI, creative people could be more creative. It would empower them. For years, even after Windows was released, there were DOS stalwarts who insisted that it was better to have to do the hard work from the command line than to have 'frivolous' things like mice and windows. Even though no one still adheres to the command-line-is-better school of thought, that way of thinking has a hold on many of the technically-smart Windows users to this day. Once a person switches to Mac, they realize that making basic UI tasks intuitive, and making multimedia work easier encourages the user to actually ''be'' creative. There's no need to pull oneself over a technical hurdle like, say, using OniSplit from the command line (and oddly enough, you seem to support the idea of a GUI for OniSplit) in order to get things done so it's easier to let your initial enthusiasm carry over instead of getting mired in stuff that should be behind the scenes. A recent exchange from the forum (names have been changed to protect the innocent): | |||
<blockquote> | |||
:::OniVirgin: I think I should add some new moves to Yosemite Sam because he doesn't have as many moves as other characters. | |||
:::Burt: OniVirgin: You might be interested in this page: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD_talk:TRAM. | |||
:::OniVirgin: That page looks useful. But... my new semester is coming and I must focus on my study. Maybe other time I can modify it...</blockquote> | |||
::::::What happened here? Our new and enthusiastic modder is thrown off by having to absorb 10 screenfuls of technical stuff that's not in his native language (and really, who ''does'' speak hex fluently? ;-). Now, imagine if we had a visual 3D TRAM editor, or even a GUI for OniSplit that basically said, "What parts of the TRAM do you want to focus on?" and there was a pulldown menu for "knockback", "damage-dealing bones", etc. and it would highlight those in the actual Oni binary data for an animation, and they could type a new decimal value in for damage, or pick a new bone from a popup menu, and the GUI would convert it to hex. That's just a random example of the philosophy of "enabling creativity through user-friendliness", and it's essential to the mindset of anyone who loves Macs. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] 17:31, 25 August 2008 (CEST) | |||