User talk:Geyser: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 23:34, 27 January 2007

Hey Geyser
I sent you an email last week, perhaps you didn't get it.
I was wondering if you have time to take a look at the key binding issue with the OSX version of Oni where the RETURN and ENTER keys are disabled.
I've tried looking for the lookup table, but with no success.
Hope you are well,
EdT
^^
I've just turned twenty-f##king-six, and I'm in deep s##t.
Wiki maintenance is about the only hobby I'm allowing myself these days.
Your mail got lost in a heap of spam :
I may discontine the email address @oni2.net altogether in the near future.
There's still the other one I may have told you of.
I've checked out the last version of KP :
definitely a kick-ass proof of concept already,
but there's still much room for improvement.
Converters between FBX, SE3 and Oni are mostly planned out,
I just need to find myself with a free week or something
to actively code and debug it (easy to wish for, hard to get)
Dunno what Ky4yM is up for with his Java-based model/anim exporter
(like, what formats he'll interface with, when and if...)
I'll just try and document the way everything is stored
(basically just writing up Pierre's extracting code
in a human-readable way (thanks Pierre, BTW! ))
That would be my 2 cents for now,
active Oni 2 development will have to wait.
As for the key binding that OMNI screwed up and won't fix :
it's motivating to fix it up, but I can only succeed
if the table looks very much like the one on PC.
(I may even have to read up on Mac hardware a bit...)
If I come around to fix it, you'll be the first to know.
geyser 18:21, 24 November 2006 (CET)
Macs suck anyway ^^
geyser 18:21, 24 November 2006 (CET)
Almost said that KP still needs its coverage here on the wiki,
but perhaps you're not the right person to ask about that ^^
Take care
geyser 18:21, 24 November 2006 (CET)

I can see you have your hands full, lots of projects and things to do. I'm finding out more Mac Users are playing around with the Dev Mode and that's cool. (For awhile, I thought I was the only one).

Regarding the keybinding issue, can you make a screenshot of the PC lookup table, perhaps that could give me a clue. Something for me to try, until you have the time.

I know the "Mac version of Oni sucks" :-)

In the meantime, I've been having fun at the Oni Central Forums with the "Going places you are not supposed to" and "Trivia" threads.

Take care, don't let your age get you down. (This coming from a guy much older than you!)

EdT

Gee, how "much older" can you be? ^^
It's not my age that's getting me down,
but my lousy survival skills (sorta).
I'm having big trouble concentrating
on my professional life, even when
drastically cutting down on hobbies.
geyser 16:41, 25 November 2006 (CET)
I haven't checked on OCF at all since
my last post (two months ago? more?)
I'll be back as soon as I'm able. ^^
(more Dev Mode users is cool)
(more OTA players is cool, too)
I forwarded a Mac OTA fan to you this week...
(and I've written a new kick-ass core ^^ )
geyser 16:41, 25 November 2006 (CET)
As for key mapping, I really haven't
looked at it that much for a few months.
I may have to talk to SFeLi a bit,
he's not online much, and neither am I.
I have no Internet at home for the time being
and real-time Oni hacking at the office is,
well, not much of an option...
I'll see what I can do and let you know.
geyser 16:41, 25 November 2006 (CET)

How old am I? Have you seen my avatar?  :-) Well maybe not that old...

Professional life... balancing it with hobbies can be hard. The solution is to have a 30 hour day, then you'll have enough time for everything. :-)

When you need to have the new OTA core tested on the Mac, let me know.

I got the email from the Mac OTA fan, he was trying to run the manplant script. I never got around to fixing it. So I just pointed him to the scripts on my site and that's the last I heard from him.

On OCF, we're doing silly but fun things, I just started a thread to find hidden rooms in the various levels and post screenshots of them. As you know some of those rooms where used for cutscenes, but othere are just there.

So Oni never gets old, there's always something new to do.

What! you mean at work they won't let you play????

I really appreciate your willingness to help with the Mac key binding issue.

EdT

P.S. how do you get the date stamp on your entries?

Hm, I sorta assumed you were one of the younger Oni fans ^^
Didn't expect anyone much older than myself, anyway.
(I know of a few exceptions, like Pierre, but I think they're rather rare)
I'm afraid I'll have to make an all different OTA core for you rebels, ^^
because my kick-ass functionality uses chr_focus a lot.
(basically, you focus to a remote "meta-character" every time you call up the menu)
Another limitation is that on PC we can watch show_performance and on Mac, we can't.
(calling up the menu with that built-in hotkey feels really good)
The show_performance-toggled menu is aimed at those who won't use the DevMode.
For those who will... we'll have to decide on what dev-mode variable we'll watch.
We should have a look at the few variables that are registered on the Mac (e.g., HERE)
and see which ones we can toggle with a dev-mode hotkey (hopefully ai2_showlocalmelee).
(you have to be careful about how you check on the state of a preset variable, though)
(on PC, at least, I got quite a headache before I got show_performance to work)
BTW, the functions are still underdocumented: HERE ^^
Oni never gets old: that's good to hear
(even if I don't think any of the hidden rooms would be much news to me ^^ )
As for the messed-up ENTER key, I'll really have to figure out just what to look for, first.
geyser 14:59, 27 November 2006 (CET)

I guess I'm still young at heart!

Oh well, I guess I can't enjoy the new OTA core until I get a new computer, probably sometime early next year.

Its kinda hard to test the functions since I can't use the console! :-)

Loser posted his melee patch on OCF, right now its for the striker_easy, but he intends to do more.

What's nice is that the patch works fine on the Mac.

EdT 04:56, 30 November 2006 (CET)

OMG, people are so spoiled... Did I have the console to help me do Oni Menu? ^^
RETURN doesn't work, but other dev mode hotkeys do, and that's all you need...
In order to actually know if they're detectable, you still have to actually script
load-time logic by hand : variable-watching forks, for one thing.
So the console doesn't really enter into it.
Unfortunately, I've done a bit of testing, and it looks like Ctrl+B
doesn't correspond to any script variable (I hoped for ai2_showlocalmelee)
That leaves cheatcode watching as the only alternative to direct hotkeys
(and autocompletion-powered console entries if we can fix RETURN)
Everyone should play Oni on PC, anyway.
geyser 17:55, 30 November 2006 (CET)
Like, I sat down and wrote a Rail Gun mode last night, that will only work on PC.
(crouching with a rifle makes you zoom in till you see the other end of the map)
It really rocks, but right now the plasma rifle is a lot more enjoyable than the MB
(I should add a long-range laser sight to the MB, and that means patched ONWC...)
It rocks so much it really makes me want to make a few squad missions.
(every member of the squad has special weapons and faculties : X-ray vision, sniper sight, reflex time, etc)
You can have none of that on Mac, because chr_focus is not registered.
(the Rail Gun mode relies on camera parameters (cm_...) and gs_fov_set)
geyser 17:55, 30 November 2006 (CET)
Loser's patch is good news (of course it works fine...).
There really oughta be a lot more of those BINA patches.
Alloc and I may craft a complete patch engine some time soon.
geyser 17:55, 30 November 2006 (CET)
Rail Gun mode sounds cool!
Hopefully early next year, I'll get an Intel Mac with XP, then I'll be able to enjoy Oni fully.
In the meantime, there's enough to do to keep me busy.
So keep coming up with new ways to play Oni!!!
EdT 00:05, 1 December 2006 (CET)


I was looking for the flag location information at:
http://geyser.oni2.net/OniTeamArena/flags/QuickList/
but I get a "not found" error message
Can you give me the correct URL?
EdT 02:06, 13 December 2006 (CET)
Late followup to the previous conversation:
  • On an Intel Mac, Oni should run fine with wine.
No XP needed, hopefully. Please try and report.
  • Rail Gun Mode truly rocks now. Whoo-ee.
All scripted, no ONWC modding required.
No Mac version though: that's a no-go...
  • I've had a look at the place in the English EXE where the SHIFT key was mistakenly mapped to mousebutton3.
and I'll be damned if I can see an array-like structure.
Actually, they are a bunch of ASM instructions here, another there...
SFeLi and his trusty disassembler were able to make some sense out of all that, but I'm helpless.
Things look even more bleak on Mac since we can't check conjectures.
Your only hope is a guy who can un-ASM the OSX port (SFeLi tried, but gave up because of the different format)
I'll try to catch SFeLi in ICQ, and ask him to "at least" try and find where RETURN is (not) mapped.
So, not much good news, eh? Don't cry. Have some wine instead ^^
geyser 15:23, 13 December 2006 (CET)
As for the flag lists, it's been a while since I moved them here:
http://geyser.oni2.net/OBD/BINA/OBJC/FLAG/
The new URL was posted in the BIP thread. Everything's there.
geyser 15:23, 13 December 2006 (CET)
I went through the recent threads of Oni Central Forum yesterday.
Haven't checked Loser's melee patch yet. Same for his Crazy Rooftops script.
Nevertheless, here's a similar challenge for the whole family:
get to Mukade in 2 minutes (cutscenes not included)
Something I call Storming the Rooftops: good parkour fun.
Once you've done that, you're left with the problem of beating Mukade.
With no hypo, no shield, no weapon, and what health you still have.
geyser 15:23, 13 December 2006 (CET)
And a bit of trivia (actually, a question to Mac users):
Do the Mac resources have the glitch mentioned HERE?
Or is it specific to the PC version (perhaps only the English one?)?
geyser 15:23, 13 December 2006 (CET)
Tosh's highlighter doesn't work at all with Opera (9.01 here).
I might log in some time soon and post these few things myself.
But I'm not too sure of that.
geyser 15:23, 13 December 2006 (CET)
Thanks for the flag URL. I missed the update :-)
Once I get an IntelMac, hopefully early next year, I'll be able to play the PC version.
I plan on getting XP loaded through Bootcamp, so I can use it without any emulation.
I appreciate your effort to solve the keybinding issue, I guess the only hope is that either Take2 or Feral will decide to update Oni for the Intel Mac and fix the bugs.
The Mac does not have the quote glitch that you mentioned. (Hey finally something the Mac got right!!!)
When you have a chance, can you post a movie of the Rail Gun mode?

EdT 04:33, 14 December 2006 (CET)

The advantage of emulated environments is that you don't need to buy/borrow/steal Windows at all.
Alloc plays Oni under Linux, with wine, and it works OK. So does OUP.
As Feral said, Take 2 are the exclusive owners of the Oni franchise (Rockstar and Feral are just borrowing it ^^).
Therefore, it's up to Take2 to decide (financially) whether, e.g., Oni's source should be distributed or not.
However, what we've seen of Take 2 so far doesn't leave much hope in that matter.
I'm sure they have their reasons (actually, rather a lack thereof).
The release of patches is a different story. It depends on what exactly the patch is supposed to "fix".
The network and dev mode were left out intentionally, so one shouldn't expect an official patch for those.
Actual bugs such as Blam we somehow think "ought to be fixed".
We know, however, that Ian suggested to de-Blam Oni way back in 2000 (not sure about the year).
And got no reply.
As for erroneous key mapping, mousebutton3 mismapped to SHIFT, or a non-mapped mouse wheel are one thing.
Getting those right allows one to customise one's controls and to enhance one's "normal" Oni experience.
The ENTER key screwed up by OMNI is a completely different thing.
No one will bind ENTER to a normal-gameplay event. It will only serve for the Developer Mode.
And that's where it might hurt...
Politically, I fear that releasing a patch at this stage would mean to acknowledge the die-hard community,
along with what that community has been doing (hacking, reverse-engineering, resource extracting...).
That sounds like a pretty good reason for the bureaucrats involved not to do anything. Just to be on the safe side.
I think those considerations ought to be kept in mind when contacting Take2 or whoever: we're licence violators.
I might release the script for the Rail Gun Mode some time soon. And a little video just for you Mac-haxxors ^^.
You can view WMVs, can't you?
As for Storming the Rooftops, make it 1:50 to Mukade with the original scripts, bar the cutscenes.
(I played Loser's script, and Mukade is way slow, especially on SP1, where you can outrun him by miles)
Here's something worth a thread on Oni Central Forum (and maybe another video by you, hmm?)
ONI IN SE7EN MINUTES
There's Marathon 1 & 2 in the same thread, as well as Halo, all of them quite enjoyable.
Another idea: a contest of "cat & mouse" pics ^^
geyser 16:46, 14 December 2006 (CET)


Stamina Rose

As for the Rooftops chase, I hereby initiate a team project... ^^
The idea is to create a music video highlighting CHAPTER 10 . CAT AND MOUSE
One that captures the "hot pursuit" feel of Loser's script.
(the fight with Mukade and the outro are best left out)
The soundtrack would be Yoko Kanno's Stamina Rose (from the GITS:SAC OST).
The video can be recorded in several sessions, but it should feature "seamless" action from SP0 to SP4.
  1. .MISSION COMPLETE splashscreen with Mukade holding the disc (no sound)
  2. "Loading" progress bar (no sound)
  3. SP0 cutscene (first strains)
  4. SP1 (beat starts, 0:07.5) speed run to the elevator
  5. SP2... (power beat kicks in, 0:45) dramatic speed run to zip line
  6. SP3... (music settles down a bit) short run to elevator (final loop) Mukade circles Konoko
  7. SP4 (beat stops, 2:44) Mukade teleports away, fade out
The timing is really tight, especially for SP1
  • we could slow the track down a bit
  • or speed up the cutscenes
  • or hack Konoko so that she can run faster
  • or just resample the video so that it's not really real-time
I'll give it a "trial run" tonight, maybe (SP1 in under 40 secs sounds really hard) ^^
I'd have to register FRAPS in order to record over 30 seconds, though...
Question for you, EdT. What would YouTube do with a movie in letterbox format? resize it to 4:3?
geyser 20:16, 14 December 2006 (CET)
Geyser: Lots of things to talk about.
For "Storming the Rooftops", how about using ssg's nocutscene script and adding a 2:00 minute countdown timer?
Of course, if I use the jetpack mode, I should have no problem finishing it under that time limit! :-)
Stamina Rose video, sounds like a cool idea.
Youtube wants the video in 320x240 format.
Regarding Feral, :I asked about the possibility of making a special edition of Oni with the missing levels and multiplayer feature. And making it compatible with the Intel Macs and fixing the known issues, such as the RETURN key. Here is part of their reply to me
if the opportunity arises that we can make an Intel patch we would, however if we added in all of those features I think it would be a pay for patch although the cost would be a lot lower than for a traditional full game. Don't hold your breath waiting for a patch but as I said if we can get all the potential issues out the way and it makes sense to do so we will make a patch.
There is no free version of Wine for the Mac, only a commerical version called Crossover. Anyways, since I need some Windows programs for work, it makes sense for me to get XP.
The 1 minute Oni was funny, I'll post the link on OCF.
Did you mean another video like Oni Universe except make the cutscenes shorter? If so, I am working on another version, it has more cutscenes added, but its hard to match the scenes with the beat of the music. I found the actual music video for Inner Universe http://youtube.com/watch?v=svWHGTMyWt8
That's all for now.

EdT 04:42, 15 December 2006 (CET)

The mail from Feral sounds nice. Looks like nagging pays off after all... We shall see.
You should check out Darwine rather than CrossOver. There are issues, but it's definitely not commercial...
I've timed the thing yesterday. SP1 to SP4 is just feasible in 2:45, all cutscenes included.
So I'd leave the original zipline sounds for the intro, and start the music at SP1.
If you're serious about "Storming the Rooftops" on a regular basis (that's awesome movement training, sure)...
I'd take Loser's script as a basis, rather than ssg's, because setting up Mukade is more work than bypassing cutscenes...
As for the timer: time limits are frustrating (Loser's script is frustrating), so I won't be doing this.
What I have right now is a nice trainer script with the time (minutes, seconds, tenths) dmsged in a column.
The difference with the timer is that it's not a countdown: just the time since you started the SP.
I can pause the counter during cutscenes (whereas the built-in timer can't be paused).
I can reset the counter (and call restore_game) with certain animations. Flailing resets, too.
Apart from that, I'm invincible, and there are no AI. So I can train for speed with a 100% clear path.
It would be exactly the same with the level logic on: no time limit; time bonuses, maybe (hypos?).
My best times right now are 0:40 from SP1 to the 1st elevator, 0:50 from SP2 to the zipline, and 0:20 from SP3 to the 2nd elevator.
That fits perfectly with Stamina Rose (with all the musical movements of the track, strong beats etc).
As for the "1 minute Oni" video, I meant exactly the "filmlets" suggested by Mango. Sorta like Red VS Blue...
As for your "shorter" storyline video, I might have a few suggestions about syncing.
(make Konoko dive into the acid and land in front of Griffin's office, all in one movement)
Point is, if such a collaboration is OK with you, perhaps it would makes sense to
lay out the timeline of a Hi-Q video here on the wiki, and open it to suggestions on Oni Central Forum...
Another ass-kicking video I had in mind (it's itching, it's itching...) would be set to Rob Zombie's Superbeast.
A little bit in-your-face, but well-fit to illustrate the more badass side of Oni: boss fights.
Barabas, Mukade, Mutant Muro, and more generally, the violent side of the Daodan
"Yeah-hey, I'm the one that you wanted, yeah-hey, I'm your super beast" (Konoko disarming Griffin)
^^
Oh, BTW, I think now I really know who Mukade is... ^^
geyser 01:45, 17 December 2006 (CET)
Thanks for the the tip about Konoko diving in acid/landing at office, it looks great!
I think it would be fun to make a collaboration of Stamina Rose.
Can you post the Rooftops Trainer script.
Regarding Darwine, a known flaw is Darwine doesn't have working sound at this time, that would spoil the fun of Oni :-)
Care to share who Mukade is? Or you could post that question on OCF "Who is Mukade?"
EdT 04:48, 21 December 2006 (CET)


This is getting long...

May comment out or delete some of the older stuff...
About Darwine: the lack of sound is a well-known flaw indeed... But.
I thought you were beyond that: I frequently "play" Oni with no sound ^^
About Mukade: the Mukade=Hasegawa theory is controversial but pretty obvious.
I've elaborated that theory in great detail on the ASFO2 thread.
My more recent revelation was somewhat more cynical :
He'd be Marathon's Security Officer AKA Halo's Master Chief ^^
Rather than an ordinary thread, I'd make it a poll, but I need a few more options:
  • an android? (interesting...)
  • an alien? (Pfhor or S'Pht or Covenant or?)
  • the Seventh incarnation of the Leveler? (who?)
  • the Laughing Man?
  • Obi-wan Kenobi?
  • your father?
  • etc...
I may have other tips for your "Oni Universe Too"
(or are you planning to change the soundtrack?),
but they're better if they're incremental to a WIP that's visible somewhere.
wanted scenes, timeline of the soundtrack, that kind of thing.
As for Stamina Rose (and Superbeast), I may start a page here...
The trainer (it's not really specific to Rooftops) is no big deal at all.
var int m=0;
var int S=0;
var int s=0;
var int d=0;
func main {
    invincible=1
    fork TickTockReset
    fork TickTock
}
func TickTockReset {
    restore_game
    ai2_kill
    m=0; S=0; s=0; d=0;
    sleep 1
    chr_wait_animation 0 KONOKOjump_flail KONOKOrun_bk_1stepa KONCOMrun_bk_1stepa
    fork TickTockReset
}
func TickTock {
    dmsg " "
    PrintDigit(m); PrintDigit(S); PrintDigit(s); PrintDigit(d);
    sleep 6
    d=d+1; if(d eq 10) {d=0;
        s=s+1; if(s eq 10) {s=0;
            S=S+1; if(S eq 6) {S=0;
                m=m+1; if(m eq 10) m=0;
            }
        }
    }
    fork TickTock
}
func PrintDigit(int digit){
    if(digit eq 0) dmsg "0"
    if(digit eq 1) dmsg "1"
    if(digit eq 2) dmsg "2"
    if(digit eq 3) dmsg "3"
    if(digit eq 4) dmsg "4"
    if(digit eq 5) dmsg "5"
    if(digit eq 6) dmsg "6"
    if(digit eq 7) dmsg "7"
    if(digit eq 8) dmsg "8"
    if(digit eq 9) dmsg "9"
}
In order to use this, you need to have the savepoints recorded properly
(i.e., you need to have played the original level once)
Then remove the original scripts and keep only the above stuff.
The chr_wait_animation may be frustrating if you feel like backpedaling at some point or another.
Also, obviously, the timer will fail to reset if you've shapeshifted to a non-KON character.
Those two can be "fixed" by customizing the chr_wait_anim... line, as usual.
Thanks for the trainer script.
The "Oni Universe Take2" is almost done, there are more cutscenes that are edited for a faster pace.
So if you have any more ideas, please let me know ASAP!
Other ideas about Mukade
EdT
"Take 2", eh? Nice one... ^^
I can't make any specific suggestions if I can't see anything specific.
For one thing, I don't know if you mean to keep the order chronological.
More dynamic splicing of the cutscenes is a general request: you have that covered.
Another "tip" would be to fit some scenes to the English/Russian lyrics.
(but that basically supposes a largely non-chronological reshuffle)
More generally, telling Oni's story in a linear way, to some soundtrack or another, is rather limited.
Even if you shuffle them. Watching the same cutscenes over and over... the déjà vu is inevitable.
Massively scripted and hacked videos... that's something different.
I'm willing to provide scripts and binaries for "revolutionary" videos.
So revolutionary they'll look like Oni 2 trailers ^^. Your call.
If you don't care about the tenth-of-a-second precision,
the trainer script can be modified as follows:
var float time=0.;
func main {
    invincible=1
    fork TickTockReset
    fork TickTock
}
func TickTockReset {
    restore_game(); ai2_kill(); time= 0;
    chr_wait_animation 0 KONOKOjump_flail KONOKOrun_bk_1stepa KONCOMrun_bk_1stepa
    sleep 13; fork TickTockReset
}
func TickTock {
    dmsg " "
    sleep 6
    time= time + 0.1;
    if(time > 3600.) time= 0.
    timer_start(time);
    fork TickTock
}
The advantage is that when you pause the game, the (frozen) timer will remain visible.
Concerning Mukade, suitable actors would make the list too long if I added them.
(If you look HERE, you'll see that Chiba is indeed very close, alongside Chia Hui Liu)
(so maybe I'll add him)
(there can only be 10 options to pick from, the rest will have to go in a post...)
("Ooh choices")
Motoko is already there, sorta. "askaninja" sounds weird.
geyser 21:20, 25 December 2006 (CET)


Pathfinding etc

Hi Geyser,
Do you know where the data for the pathfinding grid is stored?
I am asking because I am fed up with AIs being permanently stucked in walls or doors,
because of missing red aka "STOP" pathfinding tiles. Thank you in advance
Loser 13:49, 27 December 2006 (CET)
I've been looking for the grids for some time, without much success.
BNVs are almost certainly related to pathfinding, and maybe the BSP trees, too.
But I have no clear picture right now, and no time to investigate.
(BTW, when I have a clear picture of anything, I document it pretty soon ;) )
See OBD:BINA/TMBD for texture-material assignments. You can make anything breakable by gunfire/combos now.
Also, it's pretty easy to fix the stupid curbs (sidewalks etc) so that you don't have to jump over them.
Or to reveal the hidden doors in the warehouse. But here we come to the pathfinding issue again.
Pierre has asked several unanswered questions on the forum, one of them about the blocking algorithm for AI.
Could you describe the effect of the blocking parameters known to you HERE? Thank you.
(for my part, I've looked into a few TRAM-related things concerning melee: SABD, attack RAW-chunks...)
As for your semi-question HERE:
it seems that both *Run For Alarm* behavior and *Run To Alarm* If no gun events are bugged in the same way and are defunct.
Or there are missing labels "this is alarm console, you silly AI" in console files.
I don't know and I think we can live without that.
Or do you think about something else???
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...
Don't assume I've been hacking the same things as you.
geyser 17:42, 27 December 2006 (CET)
Update on pathfinding grids.
I'm almost certain everything you need is in the AKVA.
Running around after doing chr_show_bnv=1 and ai2_chump
strongly suggests that there's one BNV per grid and vice versa.
Various "big" parameters of the grid will be in th DAT,
and the tiles I'd expect to be in the RAW.
Good hunting. And be sure to update the related pages if you're lucky.
geyser 19:24, 27 December 2006 (CET)

AKVA & pathfinding:

MY left arm is raised into the air under 45°--> and two fingers up. Geyser, you are GENIUS!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

--Loser 05:10, 29 December 2006 (CET)

Doing dubious gestures with your arms and fingers isn't the best way to thank me...
Please tell us all you know about melee profiles: specifically, blocking parameters.
You could also tell me more on those "Run For/To Alarm If Whatever" behaviors...
But I suppose you're too busy hacking pathfinding grids right now... ^^
Happy New Year
geyser 21:22, 29 December 2006 (CET)
Ok ok DON'T FROGBLAST the Loser's core!!! aka I apologize for my salute...
Of course I am hacking pathfinding grid like some maniac now and my opinion on ONI's *AI stucking in everything* is more and more sharper. It seems that 3/4 of the whole AI stucking problem is simply undone and not enough tested pathfinding grid. I did some experiments and results are very promising (AI does't stuck in the door or on staircase when chasing you), so we will see and maybe I will release pathfinding patch for level 1 via Oni UnPacker. BTW there are some relicts of earlier layout of obstacles still visible in the grid ^_^
About those alarm features:
First, we have "Run For Alarm" CMBT behavior. When you assign it to some distance and let AI notice you and be in that distance, AI will simply freeze and don't move. If AI has weapon, it will fire at you, but not moving with exception of weapon dodge event. IMO this behavior is only half-functional. But problem is that if AI is in *run for alarm* state (by ai2_doalarm for example) it needs console to run to. You can try a little experiment: tell AI to use console that is behind locked door. AI will ignore that command and act as usual with its behaviors. But what if BEHAVIOR is to use console behind locked door??? AI will freeze. With "Run For Alarm" it is similar, only there aren't any locked door but IMO there are missing (or I hope only disabled) labels *FOR ALL AIs: this is Alarm console* in console bina data. So...what console we are running to, if there isn't any but it is setted as behavior??? We will freeze ^_^. But I think this behavior was abandoned somewhere in alpha version because there is missing quite important "What should I do, if there is no labeled console in "Alarm console search distance"???
Second, there is "Run to Alarm" event that belong to "If no gun" slot. So after AI ,which is armed, deplete all its ammo, it should run for alarm. My opinion is similar to that one above, only with exception that there is "What should I do, if there is no labeled console in "Alarm console search distance"??? Answer is in this case "act as usual". Or this whole thing is defunct and ignored, but I don't think so even if I don't have any evidence for that.
Third, happy New Year 2007 and may the almighty God bless you !!!
--Loser 19:22, 31 December 2006 (CET)


Adding files to DAT

Hi Geyser,
Can you tell me please how I can add file to level.dat structure???
I have figured that I have to add something at the beginning of the file and at the end of the file.
But Oni still BLAMs. Can you tell me what is needed???
Or, can you tell me( or us, if possible) how can I import files into dat structure via OUP?
Thank you in advance
Loser
Hi. I suggest you to try and have a little patience or something. ^^
Oni modding (especially BINA) is modular, so why can't you deliver a few more quality BINAs?
Whatever you are up to, any modular modification will come in handy when you release something big.
I understand you're a bit like me: figure out something, have a little fun, move on...
But that's not very rewarding. For you, maybe, but not for "us"... Oh well.
ssg has tried adding files to a DAT before you, and failed. Have a look HERE if you haven't already...
There's a lot of stuff to take care of, and it's definitely not something you should do manually.
(not that it's impossible, but even if you manage to do it, it will be of no general use)
Alloc's OUP is almost there: a little while ago it was able to pack together whole level archives.
There seems to be a bug somewhere that causes incorrect packing of the textures, and can cause Blams, too.
You could get the latest version and help us figure out where exactly the repacking goes wrong...
So "I'm sorry. I can't help you now. No one can." ^^
geyser 17:09, 12 January 2007 (CET)

"ssg has tried adding files to a DAT before you, and failed."

Only 50% correct. I've failed to add a character to the level0.dat file, because Oni wants all named files in the dat-head/part2 in alphabetical order. First according to the file extension and then according to the file name. I didn't know that, when I've added the new character, so Oni crashed.

But it's not a problem to add unnamed files to dat file. F.e. I've added all WMDD's of the level0_tools.dat to the level0_final.dat without problems.

PS: I've read that you've fixed the Mac enter-key bug. And you (and Loser?) figured out the pathfindig grid data. Wow. I'm impressed.

Btw, what does BNV stand for? IMO V = volume, because it is one. But B and N. Any ideas? Perhaps B = binary?

PPS: Remember the hidden doors of level 1? The gunk quads in front and behind door 11 (~ door position: -320 0 -450) are 18454 and 18455. If you open the AGQG file of level 1 with OUP and open these packages and change the last bytes from 00 00 10 02 FF FF FF FF to 02 00 10 02 FF FF FF FF, you can make the wall invisible (maybe you can hide it with env_show; I haven't tested that). Unfortunately you can't pass the door, because there's still another invisible wall. But I don't know the ID of it. (Package 31789 has the same points as package 18455, so I've changed it too, but no luck. I couldn't pass the door even though.) Plus the door has no doorframe, so it hangs in the air.

PPPS: The Blue Box "Mac exe" contains some more debug messages than the "PC exe". Maybe you can hand over the level0_tools + level0_final + the "Mac exe" to EdT. Perhaps he can enable the level0_tools files (because there's no message to skip it). Btw, the readme of the Blue Box Oni says, that it is version 1.1 . Maybe we should check, if there are other version out there.

PPPPS: To SNDG (from BINA/Sound): Imo : It stands for Sound Geometry and not Sound Group. amb.OSBD and imp.OSBD are called up first. These link to grp.OSBD and this to a SNDD file. Imo SNDG doesn't call up the grp.OSBD directly.

PPPPPS: Gosh, it's snowing like hell outside. The first snow this year.

Ssg 09:29, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Why, hi there ssg, long time no see ^^
"snowing like hell" = LOL
First off, a little rant: try to be more careful with the "done" label on Oni Stuff
(how can you say M3GM is "done" when you have no idea how the VCRA and IDXA are interpreted in that specific case?)
Oh, and another rant, about bitsets: once and for all, there is NO "0" bit
Now a question: where were we with the rehaul of OBD pages?
One thing to consider is that wikibooks (PDF dumps of whole namespaces) can't include images.
So converting hex screenshots to tables seems worthwhile indeed.
I don't care too much about initials (BNV, SNDG, all that...). As for BNV, N (or NV) could stand for Navigation. B could stand for Bungie ^^
If you want to talk about specific files (e.g., SNDG), I'd recommend to use their respective talk pages. Why here, dammit?
And if you want to fix something that's obviously wrong (like that "sound group" thing), just go ahead ( !!! ).
The BBBB (Big Blue Box Beta) is indeed interesting (particularly because of how it doesn't ignore the Tools),
but it's not as unASM-friendly as OMNI's port (which is basically a debug build: all functions and globak vars are named...)
AFAIK, SFeLi is concentrating on that one (OMNI's) but he could give the BBBB a try. Keep looking for other vers, sure.
Nameless DAT importing... How useful is this, actually? Aren't nameless files always part of a named file's hierarchy?
Extra WMDDs is about where it ends, right? (OK, one can add lots of TXANs and animation TXMPs, but no ONCCs, definitely)
I'll have a look at the hidden doors in level1. Fixing them is all the more appealing as now we can fix the BNVs, too...
Thanks for the two IDs: they're a good start. I'll try to cath'em all (when I get some free time, heh).
Collision is probably defined separately from the visible geometry (in the AGQC rather than in the AGQG).
Unfortunately, env_show only works for "objects" (static bike, van, truck, etc). Same for env_texswap...
geyser 15:37, 26 January 2007 (CET)

M3GM contains only links, so it's done. (I don't look to the hierarchy.)

VCRA and IDXA ==> Any ideas?

0 bit: It's just an info, that nothing happens when you write 0. ("once and for all" ==> Don't be so rough.)

"Now a question: where were we with the rehaul of OBD pages?" Dunno. I've stopped it. First you say I can do what I want, and when I do what I want, you say I have to hold on.

Ssg 16:36, 26 January 2007 (CET)

I thought we were at a point where we were no longer offended by "roughness" ^^
The "0 bit" info is misleading. All the bits in a bitset are cumulative
(and if they're all OFF, of course you get 0 = "nothing")
But you make it seem like the only valid ("possible") values are 0, 1, 2, 4, 8, etc.
(which is what is misleading: the only options are 1, 2, 4, 8, etc; each one of those options is either ON or OFF)
In other words, your list gives "everything OFF" too much of a special status. It's... yes, misleading.
IDXA and VCRA (and PNTA, even) are generic: they get interpreted in different ways depending on where they're linked to from.
In particular, the parsing of the first IDXA is non-trivial and highly specific (see the source for Pierre's OniRip).
(when you say "That's clear.", could you be more precise? are you sure you understand what face goes where and why?)
Actually, the high bit denotes, in this specific case, the first vertex of a "strip": they're not triangles.
(and in other cases, the high bit will mean something completely different)
Knowledge about IDXA etc should be detailed specifically to the resources that link to them: for example, the M3GM.
Look at your werte.htm again. See how all the generic sub-resources of an M3GM are connected? They simply don't make the same sense when considered out of the M3GM's context...
That's why I say M3GM is not "done": because THIS is missing knowledge relative to M3GM, not VCRA or IDXA...
Sometimes the hierarchy is crucial, i.e., you have to consider a file together with its children/parents.
I'm surprised your page doesn't include a listing of the TXCA. How can you be sure it's irrelevant? (ah, OK, it's parallel to the PNTA...)
As for the first VCRA: they are vertex normals (basically, averages of the face normals for the adjacent faces). Normalized.
Oni (OpenGL) uses them for Gouraud shading.
As I told you above, the first IDXA lists triangles not one by one but as strips.
The second IDXA then groups the triangles (sub-elements of the strips) into bigger faces.
The second VCRA refer to those big faces, which can be quads or even more complex groups.
I'm not sure why so many entries are necessary for the PNTA and the first VCRA. To fix vertex lighting?
Gouraud will only look nice for rather smooth objects, such as a head; err, for Konoko's head, actually, it's rather ugly
And it's totally unadapted for box-shaped objects, which are supposed to appear square, not smooth.
I'd expect there to be a flag somewhere that turns Gouraud on and off.
If there's none, then vertex shading will indeed have to be "fixed" for angular geometry.
Which means more PNTA and VCRA for a door than "needed" for a smooth "cube"... Almost stupid.
Having a little look at that (and at quaternions, too)...
Before you resume your update of the OBD pages, could you give me a list of field types you'll be putting in there? Maybe we should discuss those a little bit. That was what I suggested when I "told you to stop". A exhaustive list of data types will be useful for OUP, too (new struct def format, patching engine...).
Another thing was our disagreement as for whether OBD table rows should be templated.
Templates have an advantage: alignment and other cell attributes can be set globally in a nice-looking way. Only actually informative data needs to be entered on the "client" page.
Templates have a drawback: unlike table rows, everything has to be on the same line (although one can hack around this, see Template:HexRow)
I also need your opinion (again, yes) on the templated tables (rather than GIFs) for the hex screenshots.
They're more mirror- and wikibook-friendly.
What do you think?
geyser 17:22, 26 January 2007 (CET)

M3GM and overlay anims

Update. Last night I figured out both the M3GM&Co and the overlay anims. Happy ^^
I'll be organizing that in the appropriate pages when I get some time.
This is just a "public notepad".
geyser 00:33, 28 January 2007 (CET)

M3GM

Most of the stuff is as ssg says HERE.
  • PNTA, TXCA, first VCRA: vertex map (XYZ, UV, vertex normals). Vertex normals used for Gouraud shading.
  • Second VCRA: face normals, for flat shading (not sure the engine ever switches from Gouraud to flat) and specular effects.
  • First IDXA: polygon strips. Vertices are listed this way:
0-2-4-6-...-2n
 \|\|\|\...\|
  1-3-5-...-2n-1
the positively oriented face are (0,1,2), (1,3,2), (2,3,4), (3,5,4) etc
AFAIK, strips always have an odd number of triangles (and vertices).
Strips refer to vertex IDs (those in the PNTA/TXCA/VCRA1). The first vertex of a strip is flagged with a high bit.
  • Second IDXA: normal groups. The triangles (listed in the order in which they appear in strips) are assigned to a face normal (VCRA2).
geyser 00:33, 28 January 2007 (CET)

Overlay TRAM

Overlay anims use quaternions rather than quantized Euler angles to define rotations.
That's because an aiming overlay uses a lot of interpolation (and quaternions are better at it).
They all behave the same way except the *_arc.TRAM. Those are coupled to the TRAS.
For an *_arc.TRAM, the frames don't correspond to different moments in time, but to sectors of the aiming screen.
Basically, such a TRAM holds, e.g., nine positions:
  • aiming high and to the right
  • aiming high
  • aiming high and to the left
  • aiming to the right
  • aiming straight ahead
  • aiming to the left
  • aiming low and to the right
  • aiming low
  • aiming low and to the left
The TRAC specifies what maximum deviation of the aiming vector the extreme frames correspond to.
A generic aiming direction in interpolated using that grid.
There are 15 keyframes for RIF aiming screens (an extra column of 3 on the left and on the right)
There are 6 keyframes for the prone PIS aiming screen (no bottom row, i.e., you can't aim down)
The "used parts" and "replace parts" are bitsets that define for which bones the quaternions will indeed be read.
For the aiming screen TRAMs, there are no "replace parts", and the "used parts" vary a lot:
  • For STRIKEstand_fire_arc.TRAM, only the head turns around, so the used part bitset is 0x00040000
  • For KONCOMstand_fire_arc.TRAM, almost every bone is affected by the aiming direction
For the other overlay TRAMs, the "used parts" are 0x00010000 (chest), and the "replace parts" vary.
geyser 00:33, 28 January 2007 (CET)
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