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Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events: Difference between revisions
Oni2 talk:Truth Number Zero/Course Of Events (view source)
Revision as of 21:57, 29 June 2020
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:::::::::::To me it looks like plant seeds/spores (with or without bugs) would have virtually unlimited volatility, and definitely more than you can shake an electric fence at. Unless Daodan-enhanced life is somehow ''worse'' at spreading around than ordinary Earth life, that is. It is "up to us" of course, but I rather wouldn't have such loopholes lying around. For what it's worth, I'd be comfortable if one of the "alien" properties of this xeno-flora is that it only reproduces [[wp:Vegetative_reproduction|vegetatively]] (at least up to and at the time of Oni's events), and is busy gaining in volume and density while staying relatively close to the "source" that spawned them (whatever it is). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::To me it looks like plant seeds/spores (with or without bugs) would have virtually unlimited volatility, and definitely more than you can shake an electric fence at. Unless Daodan-enhanced life is somehow ''worse'' at spreading around than ordinary Earth life, that is. It is "up to us" of course, but I rather wouldn't have such loopholes lying around. For what it's worth, I'd be comfortable if one of the "alien" properties of this xeno-flora is that it only reproduces [[wp:Vegetative_reproduction|vegetatively]] (at least up to and at the time of Oni's events), and is busy gaining in volume and density while staying relatively close to the "source" that spawned them (whatever it is). --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::::::It may seem naive of the WCG to think they can contain the Wilderness, but they might know full well that it's a losing battle. They also are taking steps to contain the growing Wilderness, but clearly they're losing since the toxins in the air are increasing, according to Oni. Also, to whatever degree they're wrong about how well they have it contained, that's our way of adding some drama to the story. Finding out that the trophic level of the Wilderness is advancing to herbivores, insectivores, and then carnivores will be an alarming development. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::It may seem naive of the WCG to think they can contain the Wilderness, but they might know full well that it's a losing battle. They also are taking steps to contain the growing Wilderness, but clearly they're losing since the toxins in the air are increasing, according to Oni. Also, to whatever degree they're wrong about how well they have it contained, that's our way of adding some drama to the story. Finding out that the trophic level of the Wilderness is advancing to herbivores, insectivores, and then carnivores will be an alarming development. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::The [[Quotes/Consoles#STURMANDERUNG_:_Secondary_Stage|increasing air toxicity]] is one of the most ambiguous parts of Oni canon. Not only does it involve the infamous "36.18% increase" of Dioxin levels, but it seemingly presents the toxin rise as a consequence of Muro's retrofitting of the ACCs. At no point are the WPs stated as a prominent source of airborne toxins in Oni's world: all we have is "biological contamination" encountered during flyovers, and the uncanny "virus" from Jamie's bush. Of course it doesn't mean that toxins don't emanate from the Contaminated Zones at all, but it doesn't establish the WPs as the planet's "toxic lungs", either. If anything, I'd blame a WCG-era toxin rise (pre-Muro) on imperfect waste processing procedures at the ACCs. --23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::The [[Quotes/Consoles#STURMANDERUNG_:_Secondary_Stage|increasing air toxicity]] is one of the most ambiguous parts of Oni canon. Not only does it involve the infamous "36.18% increase" of Dioxin levels, but it seemingly presents the toxin rise as a consequence of Muro's retrofitting of the ACCs. At no point are the WPs stated as a prominent source of airborne toxins in Oni's world: all we have is "biological contamination" encountered during flyovers, and the uncanny "virus" from Jamie's bush. Of course it doesn't mean that toxins don't emanate from the Contaminated Zones at all, but it doesn't establish the WPs as the planet's "toxic lungs", either. If anything, I'd blame a WCG-era toxin rise (pre-Muro) on imperfect waste processing procedures at the ACCs. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::I still find it hard to reconcile the WCG's awareness of the Wilderness threat ("losing battle" and all) with the seeming unawareness of Griffin's Daodan team. It's OK to have a surge in xeno-life post-Oni (triggered by Konoko's Cataclysm, perhaps?), but at the time of Oni's events I'd expect the xeno-flora to be mostly dormant, complementary to the other sources of pollution that may exist in the Zones (man-made, phase-enhanced, etc) and to the toxin rise, but not readily identifiable either as an invasive threat or as a form of Daodan symbiosis. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::I still find it hard to reconcile the WCG's awareness of the Wilderness threat ("losing battle" and all) with the seeming unawareness of Griffin's Daodan team. It's OK to have a surge in xeno-life post-Oni (triggered by Konoko's Cataclysm, perhaps?), but at the time of Oni's events I'd expect the xeno-flora to be mostly dormant, complementary to the other sources of pollution that may exist in the Zones (man-made, phase-enhanced, etc) and to the toxin rise, but not readily identifiable either as an invasive threat or as a form of Daodan symbiosis. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
::::::I'd actually like to back up to a higher level and address what I think is your largest single question, which is, "Why complicate things when it's clear that Hardy just intended the Preserves to be waste dumps?" I felt it was necessary to diverge from this approach precisely because of the derivative feeling of the "social commentary". Industrial pollution, large corporations, yada yada. Been there, done that dystopia. Likewise, if Oni's world was said to be warming dangerously, I would find some way to subvert that narrative into a more interesting, less "concern of the moment" type of problem. Star Trek IV was entertaining but nowadays nobody has any idea what it's going on about with all that whale stuff. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::I'd actually like to back up to a higher level and address what I think is your largest single question, which is, "Why complicate things when it's clear that Hardy just intended the Preserves to be waste dumps?" I felt it was necessary to diverge from this approach precisely because of the derivative feeling of the "social commentary". Industrial pollution, large corporations, yada yada. Been there, done that dystopia. Likewise, if Oni's world was said to be warming dangerously, I would find some way to subvert that narrative into a more interesting, less "concern of the moment" type of problem. Star Trek IV was entertaining but nowadays nobody has any idea what it's going on about with all that whale stuff. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
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::::::::::I appreciate the flexibility. You're correct that the Daodan doesn't *need* alien ingerence (whatever that is), but without it, there's no clear nemesis driving the plot. The antagonist was going to be who, the Old Man, just doing what he thinks is right? I wanted to have a struggle for survival that feels urgent, like a clash of two worlds. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ::::::::::I appreciate the flexibility. You're correct that the Daodan doesn't *need* alien ingerence (whatever that is), but without it, there's no clear nemesis driving the plot. The antagonist was going to be who, the Old Man, just doing what he thinks is right? I wanted to have a struggle for survival that feels urgent, like a clash of two worlds. --[[User:Iritscen|Iritscen]] ([[User talk:Iritscen|talk]]) 21:01, 22 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::My point about alien ingerence (and lack of need thereof) is simply that Oni's civilization was fully capable of polluting vast tracts of "ignorable" land in many exotic and blood-chilling ways, without the need for alien agents seeding the Earth with xenoforming life. There's hazardous waste both industrial and military, there's rogue science both prior to and during the WCG era, and there's the "phase twist" that allows a "xeno" threat to emerge from man-made waste, without being backed up by an "enemy" that's planning an "invasion". The same goes for the "clear nemesis driving the plot" -- there doesn't need to be any. Note how, in Oni, Konoko makes an enemy of everyone just by asserting herself, and eventually ends up with as much blood on her hands as her supposed nemesis of a brother. It's this tragic and disproportionate "antihero's quest" that characterizes Oni, complemented by the dystopian context and the "alien"/hyperevolutionary origin of the estrangement. If anything, it honors the "no one left to trust" tagline. --23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | :::::::::::My point about alien ingerence (and lack of need thereof) is simply that Oni's civilization was fully capable of polluting vast tracts of "ignorable" land in many exotic and blood-chilling ways, without the need for alien agents seeding the Earth with xenoforming life. There's hazardous waste both industrial and military, there's rogue science both prior to and during the WCG era, and there's the "phase twist" that allows a "xeno" threat to emerge from man-made waste, without being backed up by an "enemy" that's planning an "invasion". The same goes for the "clear nemesis driving the plot" -- there doesn't need to be any. Note how, in Oni, Konoko makes an enemy of everyone just by asserting herself, and eventually ends up with as much blood on her hands as her supposed nemesis of a brother. It's this tragic and disproportionate "antihero's quest" that characterizes Oni, complemented by the dystopian context and the "alien"/hyperevolutionary origin of the estrangement. If anything, it honors the "no one left to trust" tagline. --23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
:::::::::::The antagonist in "my" Oni 2 would have been the deeply alienated head of the META technocracy (best seen as a "collective Mukade"). Very broadly, META is a Daodan-enhanced government, forcing hyperevolutionary paradigm shifts on post-Oni society and essentially xenoforming civilization itself (rather than the biosphere's lower lifeforms). The natural resistance to this process is embodied by Phoenix folks (in the same way as Konoko's mind and body resist the hyperevolutionary alienation brought about by | :::::::::::The antagonist in "my" Oni 2 would have been the deeply alienated head of the META technocracy (best seen as a "collective Mukade"). Very broadly, META is a Daodan-enhanced government, forcing hyperevolutionary paradigm shifts on post-Oni society and essentially xenoforming civilization itself (rather than the biosphere's lower lifeforms). The natural resistance to this process is embodied by Phoenix folks (in the same way as Konoko's mind and body resist the hyperevolutionary alienation brought about by her Chrysalis). This is the basic concept of host-Chrysalis "symbiosis" (actually a struggle on the verge of insanity and alienation), transposed from the level of an individual to that of civilization as a whole. I've always thought of it as fairly straightforward and having enough plot-driving potential (once the initially underpowered protagonist reveals herself as a Daodan symbiote, she'll become an enemy both for META and for most of her Phoenix buddies). As for the ultimate goal for META's hyperevolution -- there doesn't have to be any, but if tropes must be, then either META is "good" and intends to avert a "clash of two worlds" kind of threat -- like the Diluvians waking up and/or phase portals opening all over the place (with water and/or Screamers and/or furry zerglings pouring through), or a good old comet or asteroid headed our way... Or, META is "evil", performing an increasingly unfathomable alienation of humanity, with little regard for those old-school humans who (like Phoenix - and Konoko?) are not welcoming such a transition. --[[User:Geyser|geyser]] ([[User talk:Geyser|talk]]) 23:47, 29 June 2020 (CEST) | ||
===Daodan Genesis=== | ===Daodan Genesis=== | ||