User talk:Geyser

The Oni central forum has a quote button. May I encourage you to use it? Pleaaaaase.

Ssg 11:48, 20 February 2008 (CET)

Yes you may, and no I won't use it. I'll use the [quote] tag if anything. Thank you.

Actually, I'm not sure why I started to use "..." some time ago. That's weird indeed.

I use to [quote] a lot until I joined the Russian forums. There I started to "..." :)

Basically, it's a pain to mix cyrillic text (pasted from elsewhere) with [quote] tags.

Then I somehow kept using those on OCF. They're lighter than [quote]s, for one thing.

If the "..." make you very unhappy, I'll make an effort, but I promise you nothing.

geyser 21:02, 20 February 2008 (CET)

It's just hard to read. You have to look/search what's a quote, what's an answer and what's an emphase. Not really a pleasure.

Ssg 12:18, 21 February 2008 (CET)

---

• M3GM talk/info moved to OBD_talk:M3GM
• Overlay TRAM talk/info moved to OBD_talk:TRAM/raw0x34 (page name subject to change)
• General OBD talk moved to OBD_talk:Oni Binary Data for further sorting
  • that includes adding stuff to DAT, static object IDs, the Fight of the Century, all that... ^^
• Pathfinding & Co moved to OBD_talk:AKVA
• Outdated talk deleted at 02:42, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Images

Hi geyser, you really need to move all this talk out to an archive :)

Well, as you can see, I went a little nuts with the wiki, but I am only putting ideas out there, to be cleaned up later if you don't like :)

See the talk page for the main page for more.

Iritscen 17:26, 16 January 2008 (CET)

A question about your Oni cycles: Is the blue "O" and the gold-silver wiki icon designed by yourself? We just want to clarify stuff.

Paradox-01 21:45, 16 January 2008 (CET)

Obviously the "O" is the same logo as THIS ONE. I just flipped it around and inverted the color channels.

(although, come to think of it, I actually did edit it a bit because the "halo" was missing a few pixels)

geyser 23:11, 16 January 2008 (CET)

So... is the blue "O" official, i.e., from Bungie? That's the main question.

Iritscen 16:21, 17 January 2008 (CET)

Dunno, duncare. I got them from Google Image :)

Can't find them now for some reason, either one.

The smaller O (32x32) is from the Godgames site.

The bigger one (128x128) seems to be from Feral.

Both of them supposedly created by/for Bungie.

The ones we use have been edited by myself.

geyser 02:08, 20 January 2008 (CET)

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"Oni"

The page at "Oni" should probably be devoted to info about the video game (release date, reception, deadline difficulties, etc.). Would you mind if I moved your page from "Oni" to "Oni (name)"? Or something similar? Also, I think the item about Oni's title at the bottom of Names should link to that page, although technically you don't address the real origin of the name there -- that is, it sounded like a cool working title and only later was made the official name. --Iritscen 17:11, 29 January 2008 (CET)

Okay, this is an obsolete topic now, as I have already acted on this. --Iritscen 18:59, 5 February 2008 (CET)

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Animation Lists

I noticed that there are lists of animations, and maybe other data, that are externally linked to .txts on your oni2 page, geyser. Yes, it is still on the same server, but I did a total download of the wiki at one point so I could read it offline, and the part I was most interested in was missing because it was an external link. I think we should convert those lists into table that are on wiki pages. Do you agree? --Iritscen 17:30, 29 January 2008 (CET)

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BSL:Scripts

This page is redundant. All the info here is also at BSL, which links to it. I assume you're okay with deleting it, but I don't know to do that. Is that reserved for you as the admin? P.S.: Sorry for inundating your talk page today, I know you're busy. --Iritscen 18:04, 29 January 2008 (CET)

Lol, that is an older page, the move was made by me...

Before, the main page linked to that page, and from that page you went to the other page...I moved all the info over but neglected to delete the old page :P Gumby 08:50, 30 January 2008 (CET)

Ahh, we need to give someone moderating powers so they can delete stuff...I nominate Iretscen! :P gumby 00:35, 31 January 2008 (CET)

Just give me some time and I'll delete everything I think needs deleting. geyser 17:50, 31 January 2008 (CET)

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Redlinks

I noticed that you are fond of linking to pages that haven't been written yet. This is fine in and of itself. However, sometimes the redlinks are for nearly-unrelated subjects like Nausicaa and Halo. Are you actually planning to write those pages or have someone else do them? Because unless you have some way of tying them directly into Oni, I think we should just be linking to Wikipedia entries on those subjects, like we have done elsewhere. --Iritscen 19:56, 5 February 2008 (CET)

Take your time to explore this wiki as well as Oni Central Forum. You will see that there are plenty more or less random connections to Oni's universe, especially for the Nausicaa graphic novel or Ergo Proxy (see: Miyazaki, BioCrisis).

There are definitely familiar concepts calling for integration with Oni's, in the spirit of the Glass Bead Game. I would defnitely love to see these connections developed upon (and most often all it takes is a backup of existing forum/chat talk).

Also note that even in the absence of a direct connection, anything that is part of human culture has its place on our wiki (see Talk:Pain or Talk:Pride, for example). It's all potentially relevant at the end of the day, especially to storytelling projects.

I regard the Wikipedia links as placeholders, since they don't allow us to add value beyond a simple citation. Virtually every link-to-wikipedia (except for technical vocabulary and such) deserves a page on our own wiki, with a mere link to Wikipedia.

geyser 20:17, 5 February 2008 (CET)

"...more or less random connections to Oni's universe...". Now you're doing it just to annoy me, aren't you? ;-p

When I look through the Wanted Pages page that lists redlinks, it's just a little frustrating that there are a few hundred redlinks and less than a hundred actual articles (going by NUMBEROFARTICLES, anyway). It seems that you are expecting the community to basically move their chatting over to the wiki and add those pages in as they discuss Oni's universe, but the truth is, I just don't see it happening. I see that at times there have been lengthy discussions on the wiki, but it's not happening now, and even if it was, you couldn't direct the discussions by making redlinks. All it does is obscure actual needed pages like Kerr (which I will probably do myself soon).

At the very least, if you could add a one-sentence article for your redlinks like Nausicaa explaining the gist of the connection to Oni... otherwise, no one's going to do it. WP would call those stubs, and we know how anal about stubs they are, but they don't bother me at all. You could view them as footnotes explaining the reason for your reference in another article.

Iritscen 20:28, 5 February 2008 (CET)

Thanks for remaining oblivious to the Current events page, where you can display a selection of "publicly relevant" redlinks.

I don't know (don't care) what NUMBEROFARTICLES stands for. Or that obscure "number of pages". So, don't you give me stats ^_^

Wikis are a spontaneous thing. Everyone can see the Kerr redlink here and there, and those who care about Kerr will fill in.

Quite similarly, everyone can see the death redlink here and there; it will "find" those who care to fill it in... eventually.

(short digression on navigation, you do know that the main page is just something to get the newcomers started, don't you?)

(for everyday use, a wiki practically navigates itself through the Go/Search button, the intralinks, and the browser's cache)

It's all about spontaneity. And creativity. If no one cares to contribute, you will, and if you won't, I will. Eventually ^_^

In the worst case, the wiki will become sorta like a collection of "things of interest" with me as the only "interested" guy.

Your point about footnotes is correct. I meant to do them. Consider them as missed opportunities waiting for another chance.

geyser 23:41, 5 February 2008 (CET)

It's against my policy to edit pages in another user's namespace unless it's for purposes of discussion. I usually ignore their namespaces altogether. But your prototype for the Main Page is still under your name and generating at least 18 redlinks. Can you blank it please? Thank you. --Iritscen 16:45, 12 March 2008 (CET)

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Page Deletion

You should really archive your old Talk, you know. Anyway, if I blank a page (such as one that has been incorporated into another page), does that flag it for you to delete? --Iritscen 19:24, 12 February 2008 (CET)

"You should really archive your old Talk, you know." Second time in a month. Born to nag, eh? What an attitude... Seriously, that kind of reminders makes me feel very, very old. Like I have no future here. Oh well, we'll see.

No, we (Alloc and I) don't get notified about pages that go empty. We only get special notifications for our talk page, and an emphasis when viewing "Recent changes" for the pages on our watch list (pretty much like everybody else).

Anyway, no need to rush anyone over an orphaned, blank page. Having it stick around is not going to kill anyone, is it? I guess the most sensible thing for you to do is to type "CAN BE DELETED" in your last edit of the page.

geyser 02:42, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Okay, I really thought you got flagged on those somehow. I suppose you can use Special:Short pages to find the blanked pages easily. Still, I will put notes about deletion in any blanking edits I make. Not that it happens that often. --Iritscen 16:10, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Don't even think about using templates and such for that stuff.

I told you: no one cares about a blanked, orphaned page. No one.

So, put up a note and just forget about it... No need for a memo.

Stop thinking of ways for us to admin the wiki "more efficiently".

Don't you take the "fun" out of "functionality". I warned you :)

geyser 19:36, 14 February 2008 (CET)

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Quotes/Consoles

So, uh, what's up with the console quotes? As far as I can tell, some are on orphaned subpages like Quotes/Consoles/level 14b, and others are still on Quotes/Consoles. I agree with the idea (wherever it was) to put each console on its own page so it can be quoted easily on other pages. Is that still in process? Should the consoles still on Consoles be getting moved to their own subpages? And then Consoles would simply list its subpages, right? --Iritscen 18:05, 13 February 2008 (CET)

"orphaned subpages"? orphaned? What the...

As far as I can tell, the process is complete.

All the consoles are transcluded from subpages.

So you don't need to do anything, thank you...

(unless you want to quote them from elsewhere)

geyser 02:42, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Okay, you're really good at confusing the &%$& out of me, geyser. Please do this: Click Special pages. Click Orphaned pages. See all the Console subpages? Pick a random one, say, level10a. Look it over. Now use the link at the top of the page to back out to the Consoles page. Note that under Chapter 10, there are no consoles. There's nothing. Now notice all the consoles that are still on that main Consoles page, for instance, level1a. Level1a is also an orphaned subpage of Consoles. Surely you are not suggesting this is a finished process and that things are supposed to look that way. Surely. --Iritscen 15:36, 14 February 2008 (CET)

You should really take some extra time before taking actions or making statements.

First and foremost, why don't you take a long look at Quotes/Consoles as a user?

Is there anything inaccurate or odd about the way it lists Oni's terminals? Really?

geyser 19:58, 14 February 2008 (CET)

The oddness isn't how that page alone works, it's how the stranded pages are set up. See below. --Iritscen 20:25, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Pages like Quotes/Consoles/level10a are not linked to from anywhere. True.

But, they're transcluded from their parent page. All of them. Yes. Yes they are.

Well, okay, but they're still orphaned. --Iritscen 20:25, 14 February 2008 (CET)

geyser 19:58, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Now. Why would you expect any consoles in CHAPTER 10 . CAT AND MOUSE ???

Didn't it strike you that "level10a" doesn't belong to Rooftops? Why not?

Levels and chapters are not the same. Level 10 is chapter 8. Duh.

And as you can see, it's adequately transcluded into Consoles...

geyser 19:58, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Okay, well, that's potentially pretty confusing, but I see what you mean. --Iritscen 20:25, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Sorry if I'm rude, but I'm a bit exasperated by such "attacks".

Really, dude, take the time to analyze the stuff at your disposal.

For example, no upgrades for the Mac? Really? Really really? Damn.

OMNI's port, anyone? Lots of fixes to that app by SFeli & Neo & Co?

Such inconsiderate edits to the Main Page are, well, irritating. Stop.

geyser 19:58, 14 February 2008 (CET)

Uh, first of all, I have done nothing but improve the Main Page that was half done when you stuck it up there. Second, I never spoke those words you put in quotes about no Mac upgrades; I did imply that there were no other upgrades than the Daodan by making that the only link where before there was a redlink for Upgrades. Well, so far you haven't proven me wrong about my implication; if you're calling these upgrades, then you're just redefining an English word on a whim. Thirdly, I never attacked you. I never called the Console arrangement, or you, "stupid", or used any other "attack word". I merely said, and I quote from right above us, "What's up?", and "Is that still in process?" Now that I see what you mean by transcluded, there's no need to be uppity. All you had to do was explain. --Iritscen 20:25, 14 February 2008 (CET)

That said, I appreciate your take on Chapters. It's not perfect, but a good start.

Maybe you should keep working on Chapters and on them alone, hmm? ;)

geyser 19:58, 14 February 2008 (CET)

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Oni2 Storylines

I'm eyeing this redlinked title, "Wasteland Flowers". Whose is that? Is somebody going to fill something in there? I did some brainstorming for an Oni sequel that I would like to add to the wiki at some point, but I don't have a name for it.........hint hint. Nudge nudge. Wink wink. --Iritscen 16:59, 19 February 2008 (CET)

(Giving you a hint? lol We don't even know what your story is about.) --Paradox-01 17:21, 19 February 2008 (CET)

I'm the one who's hinting; hinting that if no one else is going to use the name, I will. --Iritscen 18:18, 19 February 2008 (CET)

..I'm a bit rushed ^_- .. So you're saying to take the name "wasteland flowers"? Ahm, no, it's already reserved. It's by seventeen seconds, and influenced by guido and geyser. As far as I remember it has an alternative ending, an animal-like robot called shirkan .. and yea (nothing more? shame on me) .. HERE is something to read. Anyway, you should introduce you story if you want to get a name. (Oh and your picture on OCF reminds me to Edt a bit ^^ but I guess it's the mission-failed guy. Right, wrong?) --Paradox-01 23:32, 19 February 2008 (CET)

Wasteland Flowers is indeed the current working title of that project. Guido's flowchart is a bit much to take in for someone who hasn't followed the development closely. Maybe have a look at Guido's user page & subpages for another sneak peek.

WF was not an alternative ending, but an epilogue. Shere Khan is actually not quite a mecha. It's what's left of Muro. It turns out that Muro's character can only be redeemed once he's dead. Maybe the Iron Demon can express the same concept.

There has been a lot of brainstorming to get to the WF name, and a few names were either discarded or never really fit. That doesn't mean you should necessarily snatch them: as a native speaker, surely you can elaborate a title of your very own.

Among the titles sorta discarded by the tandem, there was "Fading traces, faded faces" (the rhyme is mine). I don't recall any others right now, but I have my own range of titles, starting with the anagram "iON". There's even a thread about those.

Iritscen's profile looks more like Muro than like Casey "Red" Shanahan to me, but since he's asking, Casey is a fair guess indeed. BTW, there was a thread about Casey, too: the RED THREAD http://oni.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=312

Iritscen, dude, good job with the chapters so far. I see you're getting wiser or something ^_^ Fixing your own inaccuracies... (the "spike" thing, the "two spikes" thing...) I'll come in with tips and tricks and thoughts soon enough. We shall overcome.

geyser 04:31, 20 February 2008 (CET)

Ah, okay, I'll leave "WF" alone. "as a native speaker, surely you can elaborate a title of your very own." Although I have a way with words at times, I'm terrible at naming stories (I've written a dozen chapters of a novel and it still has the working name "K & S", where K and S stand for the names of the characters *sigh*). Oh well. I'll post what I wrote under whatever name comes to mind. What's in a name, after all? --Iritscen 16:55, 20 February 2008 (CET)

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Template:X0

Does it do anything? --Iritscen 18:19, 20 February 2008 (CET)

Obviously not (have a look at the history). --geyser 21:02, 20 February 2008 (CET)

Well, now that it's deleted, I can't, but that's okay, I just wanted it gone if it was useless, and it is now, so I'm happy. --Iritscen 15:44, 21 February 2008 (CET)

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Images organization

I noticed you are still opposed to having subpages under Images. I am not arguing here, I just want to know why you feel that way. I do realize now that by making them subpages, they aren't counted in the wiki stats as pages. But the reason I supported making them subpages is that they are pages consisting entirely of images. There's no textual content, so it's not an article. They're just lists of images that would have been one long page called Images, but we broke them out to make it look better. Wouldn't it be weird to take a page like Images/Jokes and make that a page called Jokes? Just a bunch of images? --Iritscen 18:18, 27 February 2008 (CET)

Categories, duh. And subcategories. With galleries right on the category's page if you want. And an "includeonly" mini-gallery for transclusion.

geyser 23:16, 27 February 2008 (CET)

Oh, BTW, I also kinda object to the quality of some or the art that keeps flowing in. Do we really have to host that much utter crap? ^_^

Oh well, as long as you don't start uploading hentai, I guess I can't complain... If you want our collection complete in that sort of way...

I'd still advise you to pick more verbose and less ambiguous names. Image:TCTF Desktop.jpg... Image:4 Way Oni.jpg... Meta-sigh...

geyser 03:14, 28 February 2008 (CET)

You didn't answer the question, Why do you object to subpages? I'm still not defending them so much as I am asking for a good reason to go through the trouble of changing their arborescence ;). I really don't support subpages for any articles (if I did at one time, then I repent for it now), but to me, the Images pages are not articles.

On the subject of inclusiveness, I brought that up some time ago on the Talk page for Images. At that time, my goal was really to help paradox, and so when he told me that he wanted to include all fan art unless it was both poorly-drawn and a "remake", that's what I did (at least, that's how I understood his post). Truthfully, if left to my own devices, a number of those fan drawings would not be there. But I felt that it wasn't right for me to exercise some kind of authority in telling some fans, "Sorry, your work isn't good enough". I mean, you and I agree on the notion of bad fan art not being desirable, but if we actually sat down together and looked at the same group of images, we might disagree on which ones are not worth putting in the gallery and which were. FWIW, those are all the images I was given, so you won't be seeing any more art flowing in. As far as the naming goes, I just can't see it being worth the effort to studiously rename every image according to what it depicts (seriously, try it, it's not easy). I went with the names that were there already, adding a detail here and there. I don't think we will have a problem with it in the future; the only danger is that someone will want to upload something and not know it's already there, but you know what? I checked the existing Gallery to make sure that each and every image I uploaded wasn't already there. That's just a proper wiki procedure. The names of the existing images were irrelevant because I looked at the thumbnails.

P.S.: What do you think of the drawing "Who's your mommy"? ^_^' --Iritscen 15:55, 28 February 2008 (CET)

IMO we need more images like that...xD-Gumby

Actually, the Russian artists unanimously want to backbreak you and then some (DSK, Lariat, triple knee, headbutt and neck break) - for uploading stuff like "how to really draw Konoko" here. I understand their point, but personally I'm much more deeply annoyed buy stuff like THIS or THIS or THIS. It's tasteless and clueless and ugly and it makes me sick to know that it's up here for the sole sake of some obscure celebration of mediocrity.

I can't see why you jumped in (like an oversexed hippo again) to do Dox's will in the first place (it's not like he isn't old enough to do it himself, right?). But it's obvious to me that the "authority" issue you mention is only a problem because of your own business with galleries: by featuring (or not) pieces of *cough* art on your gallery pages you're indeed making a discriminatory statement. Hence that improbable respect for crap.

Categorization makes the galleries auto-generated, so if some content is missing from a category it's just because it hasn't been uploaded (or categorized) yet. You're not hurting anyone's feelings by "forgetting" to upload someone's pencil-rape of Lorraine's prom art. For instance, you could upload only the stuff that you would proudly feature in a gallery or in some page's context (chibi Shinatama, mission screens, etc).

If you really want to make the whole heap of junk available to whoever cares about it, just ZIP it and put it on oni2.net and let people grab it... But uploading all of it here... talk about wasted bandwidth. I advise you to make such a ZIP, because there will come a moment where I will completely redefine (as in cross-link, categorize, rename and/or delete) virtually all the collection you uploaded. Sorry, but we all do what we must.

geyser 03:24, 1 March 2008 (CET)

I thought it wouldn't be a problem to upload images that are on OC and onimia. Guess I'm wrong.
Short question: what's wrong with "how to draw konoko"?
However, I will make a list with disliked pictures and will give it Alloc. I remember that deleting isn't possible but he said today: it is. No need for massacre here.

--Paradox-01 14:30, 1 March 2008 (CET)

Deleting is totally possible for the admins, i.e., Alloc and myself. I'm not planning a massacre. It's just that I don't feel like I owe it to the respective authors to feature art here just for "completeness".

If I leave a picture out and authors think it deserves to be featured on the wiki, they can always upload it themselves and make their point by featuring it. I would feature only about 1% of all the fanart.

What's wrong with "how to really draw Konoko" is that not all people take this as a joke (and probably the author was quite serious about it, too): it's obviously copied from an erotic pose.

Like I told you, I posted a link to it on the Russian fan art thread, and they were unanimously outraged. Like I also told you, I'm rather OK with that one and rather not OK with a few others.

geyser 14:50, 1 March 2008 (CET)

Obviously copy, aha, obviously I didn't see that. -_-
For the rest: please delete it. And by chance: tell them that I'm really sorry about it.

--Paradox-01 15:18, 1 March 2008 (CET)

For the fan art that we want to keep: you're saying it needs to be categorized. Well, a prolific and known artist like Lorraine, Guido or Rina deserves their own category, but what about the art that has no attribution or is the only piece we have by that person? A "Fan art by various artists" category? A "Fan art by unknown artist" category? --Iritscen 16:41, 12 March 2008 (CET)

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OBD structure

I just wanted to get an idea as to whether you have any plans to change the way the OBD file types are set up in the wiki (e.g. OBD:AKVA). Here's why I ask: if you're planning on leaving them that way, do you think these pages should have redirects, so typing AKVA in the search box takes you to OBD:AKVA? Because right now there are a number of redlinks being generated from references to [[AKVA]] and such throughout the wiki. So either those redlinks should be removed or redirects should be placed at those namespaces. Which do you prefer? --Iritscen 20:45, 28 February 2008 (CET)

It's a bit ironic how you keep asking my advice or permission about trivial things while making tons of controversial edits all over the place. Surely you could use the talk page to announce the changes you're about to make. That would make your choices less compulsive and personal overall.

It's inaccurate of you to cite AKVA as an example of a redlink. There's been a redirect for it along with the other "filetype" 4CCs for about a year now. As for the other 4CCs (OBJC, VLME, SNDG, etc), they obviously ought to be set up, resolving duplicates such as CONS or TURR when needed.

geyser 19:59, 29 February 2008 (CET)

"no chibi page!! Where is the relevance? Stop polluting Orphaned Pages!" There's an apparent confusion here between "Orphaned pages" and "Wanted pages". Chibi is definitely not orphaned, since e.g. this page links there. However, it will be listed as a "wanted" page, with all the more weight as there are many links to it.

Clearly, I would advise you to ignore the "Orphaned pages" altogether: they're irrelevant to the public, so there's no reason why they should bother you. It's the "Wanted pages" (a.k.a. "redlinks") that can help you expand the wiki in a natural way: please focus on these (but do not exterminate them).

As for Wikipedia (isn't WP supposed to stand for Wilderness Preserve? prefer "wp"), linking to it directly cancels the initiative (my initiative) to develop some independent and unique added value on the respective topics, since they're no longer "wanted".

Point is, you're totally oblivious of what's going through the head of someone who adds a redlink. Take megalomania for example. Aspects of it could and should be discussed in relation to a certain Oni character and possibly a certain song by MUSE.

In virtually every case, prefer a stub that holds a link to Wikipedia to an in-place substitution of a redlink with a link to Wikipedia. Don't take me wrong. Wikipedia is all right, but you're burning bridges if you link to it that way. Please reconsider.

A stub is better since it keeps our wiki's navigation self-contained (with archiving in mind), all while linking to Wikipedia as an alternative database.

On another note, right now you link to the English Wikipedia like THIS, whereas the proper way to link to it from a Mediawiki project is THIS.

geyser 19:59, 29 February 2008 (CET)